Dormant Genes

In a lot of other animals and DNA in life, there is always potential for a dormant gene, be it recessive or dominant. I was wondering if anyone has ran across this. I saw another forum where someone had a spider that was a normal, but when bred to a normal produced 2 spiders. Now I don't know the validity of the story, just wondering with 30+ years of breeding if this has been seen.

Any chance you have a link to that claim? I have never heard of anything like that, with spider or any other gene.

So this has spurred a LOT of research on my part.... So right now we separate genetics by very vauge and somewhat basic understanding... we are messing with mostly a couple alleles, but not dealing with the other alleles that might directly impact the others. For example, going human here cause I haven't crossed over to reptile yet...

You can have two humans with blue eyes make babies with blue eyes, however, if each parent or one parent carries dominant gene for melanin then the eyes will be blue with brownish tints possible leaving to a hazel or green. I am kinda interpreting this as the different pastels out there.

Then going to the spider wobble, the allele protein that causes the reduced pattern is similarly coded or bonded to the "wobble gene"

With that said, broken co-dom genes, which in turn are alleles capable of co exsisting visualy with dominant homozygous genes, CAN be passed with out displaying the trait. Aka a broken Co-dom gene for pastel could be in a visual normal, but due to it being broken... it does not act as a co-dom, it is recessive... Mix back with another normal that MIGHT carry a broken co dom, could result in the co-dom trait being displayed in the offspring.

Guess the best example I can come up with is both my parents having brown eyes, and both families having full heads of hair back three generations, yet I have Hazel Eyes and my brother and I both have bald spots.

I never understood how snakes could have retained sperm from a year ago, which kinda spurred this idea. But this is more a possibility, kinda like the paradox morphs.

Don't bash too hard, seriously trying to answer my own questions and get thoughts from others who have more hands on experience of genetics and not just theoretical...

I finally saw what was being called normal that threw a spider... the ONLY spider marking was on the head, but the pattern was reduced normal, but not to the extent of being spider. So the gene was visible but severely dominated by the normal gene.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

I finally saw what was being called normal that threw a spider... the ONLY spider marking was on the head, but the pattern was reduced normal, but not to the extent of being spider. So the gene was visible but severely dominated by the normal gene.

---

Could you post the picture I would be very interested to see a normal with spider on the head

Sent From My Man-Cave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

So this has spurred a LOT of research on my part.... So right now we separate genetics by very vauge and somewhat basic understanding... we are messing with mostly a couple alleles, but not dealing with the other alleles that might directly impact the others. For example, going human here cause I haven't crossed over to reptile yet...

You can have two humans with blue eyes make babies with blue eyes, however, if each parent or one parent carries dominant gene for melanin then the eyes will be blue with brownish tints possible leaving to a hazel or green. I am kinda interpreting this as the different pastels out there.

---

From my understanding there are multiple loci that determine eye color, so not that a gene is dormant, just other genes may visually show over it, depending on the combination of genes you get and how they are recessive, inc-dom, or dominant compared to each other. It is a poly-genetic trait, not a simple one like the morphs we are dealing with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

Then going to the spider wobble, the allele protein that causes the reduced pattern is similarly coded or bonded to the "wobble gene"

With that said, broken co-dom genes, which in turn are alleles capable of co exsisting visualy with dominant homozygous genes, CAN be passed with out displaying the trait.

Aka a broken Co-dom gene for pastel could be in a visual normal, but due to it being broken... it does not act as a co-dom, it is recessive... Mix back with another normal that MIGHT carry a broken co dom, could result in the co-dom trait being displayed in the offspring.

---

Is there any examples of this actually happening? I mean at this point would of even call it a broken gene rather than another allele? Seems like a long shot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

Guess the best example I can come up with is both my parents having brown eyes, and both families having full heads of hair back three generations, yet I have Hazel Eyes and my brother and I both have bald spots.

---

From what I have been told, both traits are poly-genetic, nothing to do with broken or dormant genes. A tail on a human is an example of a dormant gene. Switch it on, tail, leave it off, no tail.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

I never understood how snakes could have retained sperm from a year ago, which kinda spurred this idea. But this is more a possibility, kinda like the paradox morphs.

---

I don't see the correlation here, I'd need that explained.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

Don't bash too hard, seriously trying to answer my own questions and get thoughts from others who have more hands on experience of genetics and not just theoretical...

---

While I see it as very unlikely, lets just assume that model is what happened. The spiders produced would have two broken genes and when bred to a normal, would only essentially make het spiders, which would then require another het spider to even visually show in offspring. It would basically be acting like a different morph. Of course I have no hands on experience with genetics tho either....

Here is the "het spider" Not really het but severely reduced spider, to where it looks normal, now without splitting hairs, yes I do see the white coming up the body in some places. In a clutch of Spiders and normal, I can easily see calling this a normal.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...36545646_n.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

I finally saw what was being called normal that threw a spider... the ONLY spider marking was on the head, but the pattern was reduced normal, but not to the extent of being spider. So the gene was visible but severely dominated by the normal gene.

---

Paradox animals are theorized to be twins that combined, one could of been normal, other could of been spider. Would be a much more plausible explanation imo.

Trust me I have no degree in genetics and am merely putting out a thought on the matter.
I am attempting to make sense of observations and trying to gain insight. I do believe there is more going on than Aa+AA = AA, AA, Aa, Aa.

I think the more morphs we play with the more we see the complexity of the Alleles at play.

As in which Co-Dom's are dominant over each other, and the like.

I am just intrigued .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Paradox animals are theorized to be twins that combined, one could of been normal, other could of been spider. Would be a much more plausible explanation imo.

---

Yeah, that is true too. Never heard that about with twins... interesting though!

Just remember that most mutations probably originally come from two wild-type parents. When DNA is being copied to make gametes, the spider gene might pop up due to a rare genetic mutation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jdhutton2000

Here is the "het spider" Not really het but severely reduced spider, to where it looks normal, now without splitting hairs, yes I do see the white coming up the body in some places. In a clutch of Spiders and normal, I can easily see calling this a normal.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...36545646_n.jpg

---

I really don't see anything "dormant" at all in that spider. This animal was sold by a large breeder as a spider and I remember the thread when it was posted here.(link below) It is not a "het", it is a spider. I specifically remember identifying it at as a low expression spider that would absolutely produce spiders, and received MUCH criticism for my identification. 99% of the replies were stated that the animal was a normal, and nobody was looking at the obvious signs. This is not that uncommon... Ball pythons take on an appearance outside their genetics quite often but the genetics remain within the animal. It's not dormant, it's just the expression is different due to their incubation development. I've tried to explain how this occurs and why in many previous threads.

Here is the thread that I'm referring to regarding this animal.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...050-odd-spider




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

I really don't see anything "dormant" at all in that spider. This animal was sold by a large breeder as a spider and I remember the thread when it was posted here.(link below) It is not a "het", it is a spider. I specifically remember identifying it at as a low expression spider that would absolutely produce spiders, and received MUCH criticism for my identification. 99% of the replies were stated that the animal was a normal, and nobody was looking at the obvious signs. This is not that uncommon... Ball pythons take on an appearance outside their genetics quite often but the genetics remain within the animal. It's not dormant, it's just the expression is different due to their incubation development. I've tried to explain how this occurs and why in many previous threads.

Here is the thread that I'm referring to regarding this animal.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...050-odd-spider




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

to avoid digging up the old thread, I will ask you here, has any other blackhead spider pairings been done or do you have info on the previous pairings? I'm interested on if the allelic theory is proven yet, I have been hearing about it for a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

to avoid digging up the old thread, I will ask you here, has any other blackhead spider pairings been done or do you have info on the previous pairings? I'm interested on if the allelic theory is proven yet, I have been hearing about it for a while.

---

4 clutches were produced last year from a spider blackhead breeding to other morphs and even normals, all proving consistent with blackhead and spider being allelic... This adds the total count to 7 to me immediate knowledge all consistent as well. I should have a couple clutches hatching soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk