Set up for new snake

I've just purchased a new ball python. He was hatched on 9/11/2013 and is currently 146 grams. I have also purchased a 36 x 24 x 12 PVC enclosure as well as a Radiant Heat Panel for the enclosure. The enclosure will not ship for about 6 to 8 weeks. The ball however will be shipping next week.

The breeder feels he should be ready for the enclosure I have purchased when it gets here in a few months. As I have already spent a bunch of money on the permanent enclosure, I am looking for the cheapest set up for him (but still safe) until the permanent setup gets here. At the moment I have nothing. Breeder says he is currently in a tub that is 14 long x 5 high x 8 wide. The inside temperature of our home for the next month or so will range from a high of 85 degrees and low of 60 (these are just rough guesses, probably will never get as low as 60 but it is possible) we do not have AC and now that it is summer heaters are turned off.

Please help me by suggesting cheap (but safe) methods for a temporary enclosure and heating for the next few months until he is ready to go into is permanent home. Links to items would be appreciated.

Some photos of the snake that will be arriving (still does not have a name) first one is the latest photo :)

http://www.highaltitudes.net/2013%20...Male%207_2.JPG

http://www.highaltitudes.net/7_2_Pied_Male.jpg

have you already purchased a good thermostat?

if thats not in the package you are already getting, you could get a good thermostat, and use it with an UTH, and use the same thermostat with the final setup.

some heat tape or a heat mat shouldnt be too expensive, and you can use it to make a hot spot in the final setup.

EDIT: and then the temporary setup would be a basic tub setup with a hotspot and a thermostat and hide and water bowl.

Is the RHP set in stone? Why do you want to go this route? I ask because its kinda a strange way to go for a ball.

I have three pvc cages that are 48x24x15 with both a UTH and a RHP. I was planning on using these setups to house snakes in a room that stays 68-70. I found that the RHP would not keep the ambient temps within the desired range without creating a hotspot that was much warmer than wanted. I ended up turning the RHPs off and getting a oil filled heater to heat the room. I also found that the RHPs were warming the top of the hide but the interior of the hide was staying much lower than the top of the hide. I was using black hides and a grey cat litter box hide and neither warmed on the inside like I needed. That was with the RHPs alone, just testing their capabilities.

It was a good thing that I opted for the belly heat too because that was the route I had to go for their hotspot. If you could change the RHP to a UTH I think it would serve you better or just order it without heat and put the UTH you already need on it when it arrives. RHPs have their place and it works perfect for my GTP setup since he perches directly in the heat path without a hide but it many cases that do not raise the ambient temps high enough. From what I have read they seem to work better in thick walled cages such as ones made of wood, but then that's a separate issue.

The one thing you are going to need regardless of the setup is a thermostat(tstat). I good tstat can run any type of heat source such as a UTH, RHP, or heat bulb but not all tstats are created equal. I like Herpstat by Spyder Robotics. I have four of their units and they are great. They are doing a 10% off summer sale now too. http://spyderrobotics.com/

You need to buy the best tstat you can afford as its the most important tool to keep your snake safe and healthy. If you buy cheap you get cheap. If you have temp swings in your home your going to want a unit that can handle the swings well. Plus the nicer models will track temps(highs and lows) so you can make sure your not having spikes or drops way out of range when you are away. The Herpstat 1, 2, and 4 will do that plus much more.

Here is a very recent thread about a cheap tstat failing and burning the snake causing much more in vet bills than a good tstat would have cost in the beginning. This person did a brave thing of owning up to their mistake and used it to hopefully teach others to not make the same mistakes.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...38#post2254938

Tstats have been discussed heavily here and there are many recent threads on different ones. Search through the recent threads and you will see many different options and a few ideas on where to maybe pick one up used.

As for a temporary setup I would recommend a tub with locking lid with a UTH. You can put aluminum foil on the sticky side of the UTH and then tape it in place on the tub so that it can be easily removed for cleaning or changing locations without damaging the UTH mat. This mat could even be moved to the pvc cage when it arrives.

I would suggest that you start to monitor the temps in your house. That is a wide range you threw out and if it really does have that much swing we will need to find a way to level it out. This could be as easy as adding a heat lamp or small room heater to keep the temps more stable. A heat lamp suspended on a stand or string can be very effective with a tub if needed. We can tackle that once we have better information.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

have you already purchased a good thermostat?

if thats not in the package you are already getting, you could get a good thermostat, and use it with an UTH, and use the same thermostat with the final setup.

some heat tape or a heat mat shouldnt be too expensive, and you can use it to make a hot spot in the final setup.

EDIT: and then the temporary setup would be a basic tub setup with a hotspot and a thermostat and hide and water bowl.

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So for the tub he will be in until the enclosure gets here he will need heat tape or UTH, hide and water bowl? Will I need substrate for the tub, I have seen many breeder videos where they are pulling tubs out of a rack that do not have substrate. I assume I will require thermometer and something to test humidity for the tub, or is this not needed for the tub?

I have not purchased the thermostat yet, but Pro Products has suggested a thermostat that they think will be best to use with RHP. I'm not 100% sure I want to use this thermostat with the temporary setup as when the enclosure gets here we will want to set it up and test it for a few days to a week to make sure we are hitting our target temps and humidity. If that is the case I will have to pull the thermostat from the tub the snake is currently in and he will no longer have a thermostat. So I was hoping that someone can point me towards a cheap but thermostat to use for a few months.

Additionally Pro Products said I would not need a heat mat or UTH with the radiant heat unit they are suggesting.

Is this correct or are they steering me wrong. Here are a few inserts from the very long email they sent me.

"We recommend the Johnson Controls A419 series of thermostats. They are an industrial quality, UL and CE rated brand that is more reliable and less expensive than many popular brands of thermostats sold in our industry. They can be purchased in a hardwired version (requires installing the power cord where an inexpensive extension cord can be used) through many vendors for under $60.00. One you can try is: http://www.pexsupply.com/Johnson-Con...-120-240v-SPDT You can also purchase the unit pre-wired if you are not comfortable wiring the unit yourself. We find the following link through Amazon has a good price for the pre-wired model A419ABG-3C: http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Contro.../dp/B00368D6JA"


"I do not agree regarding the use of undertank heaters for your cage or in general. Our natural heat source is the sun and all reptiles have evolved being heated from overhead with this radiant heat source. Heating with a Pro Heat radiant panel will replicate this type of energy from overhead, allowing the animals to react more naturally and will heat all of the objects in the cage in the same manner. Not only is heating from below not natural (and we can debunk any statement saying any reptile needs an undertank heater), many undetank heaters are not UL listed for this purpose and many short out and cause numerous fires every year. Plastic is also an insulator, so putting an undertank heater on the underside of a cage is inefficient by trying to force heat through the cage bottom. When sized properly, our Pro Heat panels are the only heat source needed and eliminate any risk of a fire or other problem associated with other types or heaters."

get a good thermostat :) they run with UTHs, radiant heat panels, even with heat bulbs, a good thermostat is required in any setup.

some have several channels, so you could get one that has two channels, and use the UTH with one temperature probe for the hot spot and the radiant heat panel with a second temperature probe for ambient temperatures.

and for the in-between setup, you use that same thermostat for just a hot spot. you could transition with long-enough cables by running the hot spot in the in-between enclosure over channel 1, and using channel 2 to test-run the RHP in the final enclosure. or you could just heat your room for 2 days to switch over and to test the new setup without the BP in it. i wouldnt spend money on a bad temporary thermostat, i would rather just heat the room for a transition.

i dont know what thermostats are the best, people here keep recommending the herpstat series from http://www.spyderrobotics.com/ . but they seem rather pricey.

about the substrates.... many people use some real substrate and many people use paper towels, or old newspaper, or unprinted newspaper. but some absorbant substrate is a must, you cannot let them sit around on bare plastic, what if they have to pee.


EDIT: oh, and, BPs are nocturnal, they dont bask, the quote seems to be geared to reptiles in general. BPs like hot spots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Is the RHP set in stone? Why do you want to go this route? I ask because its kinda a strange way to go for a ball.

I have three pvc cages that are 48x24x15 with both a UTH and a RHP. I was planning on using these setups to house snakes in a room that stays 68-70. I found that the RHP would not keep the ambient temps within the desired range without creating a hotspot that was much warmer than wanted. I ended up turning the RHPs off and getting a oil filled heater to heat the room. I also found that the RHPs were warming the top of the hide but the interior of the hide was staying much lower than the top of the hide. I was using black hides and a grey cat litter box hide and neither warmed on the inside like I needed. That was with the RHPs alone, just testing their capabilities.

It was a good thing that I opted for the belly heat too because that was the route I had to go for their hotspot. If you could change the RHP to a UTH I think it would serve you better or just order it without heat and put the UTH you already need on it when it arrives. RHPs have their place and it works perfect for my GTP setup since he perches directly in the heat path without a hide but it many cases that do not raise the ambient temps high enough. From what I have read they seem to work better in thick walled cages such as ones made of wood, but then that's a separate issue.

The one thing you are going to need regardless of the setup is a thermostat(tstat). I good tstat can run any type of heat source such as a UTH, RHP, or heat bulb but not all tstats are created equal. I like Herpstat by Spyder Robotics. I have four of their units and they are great. They are doing a 10% off summer sale now too. http://spyderrobotics.com/

You need to buy the best tstat you can afford as its the most important tool to keep your snake safe and healthy. If you buy cheap you get cheap. If you have temp swings in your home your going to want a unit that can handle the swings well. Plus the nicer models will track temps(highs and lows) so you can make sure your not having spikes or drops way out of range when you are away. The Herpstat 1, 2, and 4 will do that plus much more.

Here is a very recent thread about a cheap tstat failing and burning the snake causing much more in vet bills than a good tstat would have cost in the beginning. This person did a brave thing of owning up to their mistake and used it to hopefully teach others to not make the same mistakes.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...38#post2254938

Tstats have been discussed heavily here and there are many recent threads on different ones. Search through the recent threads and you will see many different options and a few ideas on where to maybe pick one up used.

As for a temporary setup I would recommend a tub with locking lid with a UTH. You can put aluminum foil on the sticky side of the UTH and then tape it in place on the tub so that it can be easily removed for cleaning or changing locations without damaging the UTH mat. This mat could even be moved to the pvc cage when it arrives.

I would suggest that you start to monitor the temps in your house. That is a wide range you threw out and if it really does have that much swing we will need to find a way to level it out. This could be as easy as adding a heat lamp or small room heater to keep the temps more stable. A heat lamp suspended on a stand or string can be very effective with a tub if needed. We can tackle that once we have better information.

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Yes, those temps are fairly accurate for the house. During the summer months it is normal to have 90 to 95 degree days and then the evenings then drop to the 50's or even the mid 40's. It is of course different from June to July to August, but 40 degree differences from day to night outside are not.

Please read the post I just made, we were posting at the same time and it should answer some of your questions. And no the RHP and Thermostat have not been purchased yet. I am still debating on the thermostat suggested by Pro Products or the Herpstat 1/2.

Pro heat also said in their very long reply:

"Many of the cheaper thermostats sold in our industry are just that which do have a history of failing (often in the on position). Some of the high end thermostats in our industry are also unreliable and many are not UL listed (look around your house at any electrical appliance and they will all be UL listed). This means that there was no safety design testing by a certified UL laboratory and there is no outside quality control to make sure they are not a safety risk and every unit built follows specific safety guidelines to make sure it will operate properly and not create a fire hazard or other risk. This is why it is important to make sure what you buy is UL listed as a finished product with the "UL" symbol on the label."

So I wanted to make sure the herpstat met these requirements before purchase as the tstat suggested by Pro Products is close to $140 cheaper then the herpstat. Regardless of if I go with the herpstat (around $200) or the Johnson Controls A419 (around $60) I was also hoping to not have to by two to get me through the week or so we were testing the new enclosure while it gets here, but it is sounding like there are no good quality cheaper ones.

The reason for the RHP is we live in a remote log cabin in Montana. it is not unusual for the outside temps to get to negative 35 in the winter and the temps in the house to be at 50 to 55 degrees on colder days. From everything i read on this forum with those temperatures RHP is what I want. So after reading your post, the other posts I have read here and the email sent to me by Pro Products I am not sure who is right and who is wrong. I know pro products comes highly recommended, could the quality of the RHP make a difference to your post?

I have Pro Products RHPs in my cages. I spoke to them and got what they suggested for my cage sizes but they just didn't work as expected. I'm not knocking their products. I like the units I have and they are well made. They just do not seem to be a good choice for people that have cages in colder rooms.

As for that tstat I don't know much about it but if they are recommending it I'm sure its good but I can not offer any more help on that particular one. Getting it because of its price and using it while getting your main cage setup seems to be a good idea. Another way to go is to get a Herpstat2 new or used. That unit can control two devices so it could control both your tub and the cage. Then your also setup for your next snake or you can use the other output to control a light or maybe the heat lamp you may need.

I would still watch your room temps and I believe a small room heater will be needed sometimes. Walmart sells Accurite indoor/outdoor thermometers and it shows humidity. You can use this in your room for now and them in your tub and cage. They are about $12.

Small heaters for the rooms themselves are not options. Our house is pretty big and the rooms are pretty big. If small heaters worked to heat the rooms, we would not be letting them drop into the 50's come winter time for our own comfort.

Thanks for the other info though, I guess I will have to rethink the Pro Products RHP's. They seemed to come highly recommended and what where suggested here for my temps.

Some keepers keep their snakes in a closet. A small heater, on a tstat, can easily heat a closet.

I'm sorry to put doubt about the rhp. I just know I was in the same spot and it didn't work like I thought it would and I don't have the temp fluctuation that you do. I just would hate for you to put money into something that you end up not using or needing.

I think I am going to order the herpstat 2 and it can be used for both the temporary and the permanent enclosure. It seems to me as long as everything is on a good thermostat I can disregard the suggestion from Pro Products not to use a UTH and use one any way. I had also spoken to another breeder as well as Ed from Constrictors Northwest. Both felt that the UTH would not be necessary with the Pro Heat RHP, but suggested it couldn't hurt to get one any way, hook it up to a thermostat and if it never came on it wouldn't hurt.

So what would be a good suggestion for a UTH that can be used on the tub and then moved to the PVC enclosure when that is ready?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

Here is a very recent thread about a cheap tstat failing and burning the snake causing much more in vet bills than a good tstat would have cost in the beginning. This person did a brave thing of owning up to their mistake and used it to hopefully teach others to not make the same mistakes.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...38#post2254938

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Just an FYI, I have no issues spending whatever money needs to be spent to make sure this guy is healthy and happy. We have a bit of a Zoo here and everyone one of them from the 4 dogs, the 2 cats and the hedge hog have all their needs taken care of and are healthy and happy. I will not buy anything until I've researched it and made sure it was the proper product to do the job it was meant to do. Which is why I started this thread. Cheap might have been the wrong word, I was looking for safe options for the temporary setup that would hopefully be cost effective for the two months they would be used.

I have some custom ones, Fluckers, and ZooMed. They all have worked fine. For the tub either the Fluckers or ZooMed would be fine. The Fluckers is a plastic sheet that is very thin. They also advertise only getting to 100 degrees. Which is supposed to make them safer. The ZooMed is a tad thicker and more of a rubber mat feel but they are rigid. Just remember to never bent a uth as it will bend and break the inner wires and cause it to malfunction or die.

UTHs are really simple, its just a flat thing that converts electricity into heat. so these things are rather inexpensive and there are many brands of good UTHs and good heat tape. they are waterproof and come with the right cable and a nice coating and such, but really they are just glorified resistors.

the thermostat with its heat probe does all the work. (and thats where the risk and the bad reputation comes from: run them unregulated, and temperatures can be much too high. use a good thermostat and they work just fine).

for additional safety you might get an UTH that has a maximum energy output at around the level where you would need it. so when for example 50 watt is all you will ever need, dont buy one that goes up to 100 watt.

EDIT because another reply came in: no UTH or heat tape can guarantee a maximum temperature, thats not really possible unless they add a temperature controlled circuit breaker or fuse or something. it depends on the wattage and the thermal insulation surrounding it. high wattage with high thermal insulation means it can reach high temperatures. if you want a real limit, it has to be the amount of watt it delivers when running full steam. ive seen them rated from 8 watt to 200 watt with everything in between.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moorea

Just an FYI, I have no issues spending whatever money needs to be spent to make sure this guy is healthy and happy.

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I'm so glad to hear this. Most threads are "I NEED A THERMOSTAT ON A BUDGET WHAT'S THE CHEAPEST ONE?" I can't stand it. In my opinion, if you can't properly provide for your animal (with quality products), don't get one.

:gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CatandDiallo

I'm so glad to hear this. Most threads are "I NEED A THERMOSTAT ON A BUDGET WHAT'S THE CHEAPEST ONE?" I can't stand it. In my opinion, if you can't properly provide for your animal (with quality products), don't get one.

:gj:

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I couldn't agree with you more! The 5 pets we have now probably all live and eat better then the humans in our house. That is why I wanted to clarify that I have no problems spending whatever needs to be spent, but also did not feel the need to go over board for a setup I am planning to use for a few months, just get what is necessary and needed for good health and happiness . I'm already going over way over board with his forever home :) LOL

So this is where I am now, please let me know if I left anything out.

I have ordered the herpstat 2. Priority shipping should have it here by Monday. The snake will be arriving on Tuesday. If the thermostat is not here by then he will hold off shipping until it is. I plan on using the herpstat for just the UTH on the tub for now. Then when the PVC cage gets here I will use the second tstat in the herpstat for the RHP and when ready to move him to the cage will move the UTH already on the herpstat over and adjust as needed.

Immediate Needs to purchase tomorrow for tub:
Tub
UTH
Humidity Probe
Substrate
Temp Gun
Scale
Water Bowl
Hide

Later Needs for PVC Cage:
RHP
2nd Hide
LED Lighting

Did I forget anything?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moorea

So this is where I am now, please let me know if I left anything out.

I have ordered the herpstat 2. Priority shipping should have it here by Monday. The snake will be arriving on Tuesday. If the thermostat is not here by then he will hold off shipping until it is. I plan on using the herpstat for just the UTH on the tub for now. Then when the PVC cage gets here I will use the second tstat in the herpstat for the RHP and when ready to move him to the cage will move the UTH already on the herpstat over and adjust as needed.

Immediate Needs to purchase tomorrow for tub:
Tub
UTH
Humidity Probe
Substrate
Temp Gun
Scale
Water Bowl
Hide

Later Needs for PVC Cage:
RHP
2nd Hide
LED Lighting

Did I forget anything?

---

Seems good to me, And gorgeous guy =) happy to hear you took the plunge! dont forget food in immediate =) hahah

Aswell the herpstat 2 will work best for these 2 reasons! once you make the switch to PVC you can use both probes

1 for RHP (get ambient temp to 80-82) and then 2nd probe for the HeatPad (to get your 90-92 hot spot) Which best heat is belly heat for BP's! You can even contact the place and they'll drill the necessary hole for probe's if you'd like! ID also suggest going to a local garden center and buying a water sprayer (little dinky hand ones suck) Pick up one of the pest control ones with the pumping top part! i love mine as i use to mist snake and Fill water bowl (i use the repti water conditioner)

Also since doing that with heat pad (if you dont get felxxwatt/thg tape) Dont forget to place tinfoil/foil tape on the sticky part of the UTH so it is easily moved from tank to tank, and just adhere it with some foiltape/electricle tape. IF you use adhesive they provide you can damage it when pulling it off the tub.

I would just add a second hide. You want one over the uth but you also want a place the snake can go to cool off and still feel comfortable.

These are really great. http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

Unless you want the rock looking ones the ReptileBasics ones are sturdy, cheap, and easy to clean. If they wouldn't arrive on time you could use many other homemade solutions. Box, bowl with door cut (dollar store), crinkled newspaper, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Seems good to me, And gorgeous guy =) happy to hear you took the plunge! dont forget food in immediate =) hahah

Aswell the herpstat 2 will work best for these 2 reasons! once you make the switch to PVC you can use both probes

1 for RHP (get ambient temp to 80-82) and then 2nd probe for the HeatPad (to get your 90-92 hot spot) Which best heat is belly heat for BP's! You can even contact the place and they'll drill the necessary hole for probe's if you'd like! ID also suggest going to a local garden center and buying a water sprayer (little dinky hand ones suck) Pick up one of the pest control ones with the pumping top part! i love mine as i use to mist snake and Fill water bowl (i use the repti water conditioner)

Also since doing that with heat pad (if you dont get felxxwatt/thg tape) Dont forget to place tinfoil/foil tape on the sticky part of the UTH so it is easily moved from tank to tank, and just adhere it with some foiltape/electricle tape. IF you use adhesive they provide you can damage it when pulling it off the tub.

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LOL, I certainly will not be forgetting food. I think we covered that thoroughly in my first thread. I am just so relieved I found a snake that would accept the food I have access to :)

And yes, I read about the foil tape and forgot to add it to my list! Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

I would just add a second hide. You want one over the uth but you also want a place the snake can go to cool off and still feel comfortable.

These are really great. http://www.reptilebasics.com/hide-boxes

Unless you want the rock looking ones the ReptileBasics ones are sturdy, cheap, and easy to clean. If they wouldn't arrive on time you could use many other homemade solutions. Box, bowl with door cut (dollar store), crinkled newspaper, etc.

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I am a bit confused about hide sizes. I know they are supposed to be snug so the snake can feel protected. But hides seem to be sold for all reptiles. I am assuming what is small for a frog will be to small for a snake. While looking at hides I have seen "small" ones with a picture of a tiny lizard in them. As of yesterday my boy was 146 grams, so what size hide will he require if I went with a reptile basics one? I am assuming whatever we get now we will need to upgrade to biggers ones as he grows.

I was actually thinking of something home made to start so we can make it after he arrives and have judged his size. However I am going to town to shop tomorrow so if I had a better idea of size I can pick him up a fancy one :)

So things are still moving along.

Tracking says my herpstat 2 will be here monday. I went with the new redline one and added a pack of extra fuses. I figured for the extra few bucks the redline would look cool with the red LED lighting we are planning.

I have ordered the following from Amazon and with prime it will be here Monday as well.

Nubee® Temperature Gun Non-contact Infrared Thermometer w/ Laser Sight
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Etekcity Ultra Thin 22lb (10kg) Professional Digital Multifunction Kitchen Food Scale
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Extech 445815 Humidity Meter with Alarm and Remote Probe
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Zoo Med ReptiTherm® Under Tank Heater, Small
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

And just in case the ZooMed does not work or give enough heat I got the following as a backup:

Exo Terra Heatwave Desert
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Petco has the the coconut husk substrate. I was hoping to find cypress mulch locally, but can not. As it is pretty dry here I need something that will hold moisture well and coconut and cypress seemed highly recommended here so I'm going to give it a try. If it does not work well for us, we will try something else.

So tomorrow we head to down and pick up the tub and the substrate.

A few questions, will the audible alarm of the hygrometer scare the snake or should I just not use that feature?

Probes??? I know this has been covered but I am still a little confused. I have read the probe should go directly on the pad. Wouldn't it make more sense to put the probe on the inside of the enclosure on the floor so the herpstat could be set to keep that area at 90 degrees? What is the benefit of putting the probe outside the tub and setting the herpstat to 100 degrees so it is 90 degrees inside when I can just set the herpstat to keep the the exact temperature I want. If it needs to go on the outside does it go between the enclosure and the pad or under the pad?

And yes, I know I am high maintenance. Thank you for sticking with me :) I just want to get this right the first time.

Yes you will have to get bigger sizes as it grows. On the Reptile Basics site under each size of hide it has a description of the size ball it will best house.

If you find yourself with hides that are a bit to large I have had success putting moss inside to make it feel smaller. This also works well during sheds as you can dampen the moss and create a humid hide to help the shed process.

You certainly can make hides and the dollar store or thrift shop can be a good place to find bowls for it. Just cut a door, round the edges, and your done.

You want the probe outside the cage so it can not be moved or flooded. I put my probes between the mat and cage floor.

If the snake moves it up or off the floor the tstat will register low temps and ramp up the power there by causing the tstat to run away and get to hot putting your snake at risk.

Also if the snake flips its water or urinates on the probe the tstat will again register low temps and ramp up like above.

Snakes do not have ears. That's why they never come when called. So the alarm should not be a problem. Your Herpstat also has alarms you can set to let you know if the temp gets to hot or cold. I use mine, they are handy. I'll let you google how they detect things.

You could pick up ecoearth at any garden center aswell... its just a block of compressed coco substrate that you submerge in water and it expands! IT is extremely good for humidity aswell as its resistance to mold/harbor bacteria unlock some other wooden mulch's

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

You could pick up ecoearth at any garden center aswell... its just a block of compressed coco substrate that you submerge in water and it expands! IT is extremely good for humidity aswell as its resistance to mold/harbor bacteria unlock some other wooden mulch's

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Thanks! That sounds as if it will be cheaper then petco and can probably be purchased in larger quantities. My husband has brought up a concern, if it is gotten at the garden center is there any quality control in respects to it having insects or whatever in it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMG

You want the probe outside the cage so it can not be moved or flooded. I put my probes between the mat and cage floor.

If the snake moves it up or off the floor the tstat will register low temps and ramp up the power there by causing the tstat to run away and get to hot putting your snake at risk.

Also if the snake flips its water or urinates on the probe the tstat will again register low temps and ramp up like above.

Snakes do not have ears. That's why they never come when called. So the alarm should not be a problem. Your Herpstat also has alarms you can set to let you know if the temp gets to hot or cold. I use mine, they are handy. I'll let you google how they detect things.

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Makes sense to me.

I also considered the Herpstat 4 which would allow me to run the two heaters and by the humidity probe, so everything would be monitored by the one unit. Maybe that will be an upgrade :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moorea

Thanks! That sounds as if it will be cheaper then petco and can probably be purchased in larger quantities. My husband has brought up a concern, if it is gotten at the garden center is there any quality control in respects to it having insects or whatever in it?

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Not really with Ecoearth, its compressed dry brick really all it is. Worst case youll get 2 types of "bugs" and they are 100% unharmful but they actually help by "eating" any fecal left over from spot cleans, i forget what they are called but someone could chim in if they knew! but i buy mine from there its about 10$ for a brick of it, then just expand under water... Even at pet stores that subtrate is still "cheap" compared to others

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Originally Posted by CORBIN911

Not really with Ecoearth, its compressed dry brick really all it is. Worst case youll get 2 types of "bugs" and they are 100% unharmful but they actually help by "eating" any fecal left over from spot cleans, i forget what they are called but someone could chim in if they knew! but i buy mine from there its about 10$ for a brick of it, then just expand under water... Even at pet stores that subtrate is still "cheap" compared to others

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the little helpers would be springtails, they eat bacteria and fungus, and amphibian keepers and people with vivariums actually pay to get the right ones. they often come with substrate because you can find them in every place where wood or leaves are rotting.

getting one kind of insect or another with the substrate is common. but its incredibly rare for these insects to be harmful in any way. the dangerous reptile mites dont occur randomly in nature, they are found on reptiles and around the hiding places of reptiles and nowhere else.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

the little helpers would be springtails, they eat bacteria and fungus, and amphibian keepers and people with vivariums actually pay to get the right ones. they often come with substrate because you can find them in every place where wood or leaves are rotting.

getting one kind of insect or another with the substrate is common. but its incredibly rare for these insects to be harmful in any way. the dangerous reptile mites dont occur randomly in nature, they are found on reptiles and around the hiding places of reptiles and nowhere else.

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I've often wondered where the mites come from. When I had my Bernese Python backin the 90's we woke up one day and he mysteriously had mites. We had no other pets, he rarely if ever left the apartment. Took him to the vet, they suggested we rub olive oil all over him. All the mites pretty much fell off and died. We cleaned his tank really well and never had another problem again. I was at Colorado State University at the time. They have a really good veterinary school so that is where I took. It was kind of cool, it seems they do not get many snakes (or at least didn't back then) so when I made the appointment they made sure as many students would be free to watch. We were in a huge room made for viewing and my snake got a VERY thorough examination, probably much more then needed for a visit for mites!