Temperaments based on Morphs, Parents, etc.

I've seen a couple videos and talked to some people who believe (certain) morphs have temperaments. Though there seems to be some discrepancy with some morphs. For example, I've had some people tell me that piebalds are extremely sweet while other say that piebalds are overall very nippy.

Are lighter color morphs more docile and sweeter than darker ones?

And how much of the parents' temperament has an effect on the hatchlings? (since temperament is partly genetic....) From your experience, are hatchlings from "aggressive"/nippy parents more likely to be "aggressive" and nippy? Are sweet and docile parents more likely to produce sweet and docile offspring?

Do you guys have any other beliefs regarding temperament? Or are snakes just snakes?

I know each snake has an individual personality, but thought these two points could spark an interesting discussion. Look forward to seeing what you guys all think!

A few episodes of snakebytes they say that the darker snakes tend to be a bit more defensive.
I heard Pieds are lazy.

He said she said?

I am by no means a big breeder but I feel a ball python is a ball python. No matter the paint job the attitude can vary. If you believe morphs/colors can influence overall attitude and actions you are opening a can of worms LOL

I will agree my one pied is a cruzer nosey as sin and loveable. My other is more docile rather sit in a ball and let me carry her to explore. My spider pied is a nut job. He's like a friggen corn snake he's always wanting to just GOOOoo. I think it's all just the snake. Or maybe if they even having a bad day!


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Originally Posted by Mr Oni

A few episodes of snakebytes they say that the darker snakes tend to be a bit more defensive.
I heard Pieds are lazy.

He said she said?

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Do you know any of the video names?


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Originally Posted by 989josh

Do you know any of the video names?


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This is the "Racial Profiling" one by BHB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVyhtOIBOM

The only consistency that I have noticed in my collection is that all my spiders are goofy, even the ones that don't have a noticeable wobble (I'm in the camp that thinks all spiders wobble to some degree at some point in their lives) And I have never had a spider that was a picky eater, either.

I don't think the morph matters. I think the attitude of the parents does. We talk about rat breeding all the time and how personality is inheritable. Makes sense to me that would happen to a lesser effect with snakes too.

i think the only morphs that really affect character/behavior are spider, and other genes that have the neuro wobble.

actually im only sure about spiders. do other morphs with a bit of a wobble (like champagne, woma, or the superball) behave similar to spiders?

apart from that, im sure selective breeding can influence it.

Spiders and powerballs are silly. Both of mine are sweet as can be.

Never had a strike and they are perfect to hand off to kids.

But thats my dealings with only 2 that i have.

I haven't noticed a correlation between morphs so much as a correlation from parents to offspring.

I definitely noticed a difference in babies from a nervous, shy snake vs. my more outgoing, laid back animals, especially when they were relaxed or outgoing as babies and kept that attitude into adulthood.

-Jen

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Originally Posted by KING JAMES

I am by no means a big breeder but I feel a ball python is a ball python. No matter the paint job the attitude can vary. If you believe morphs/colors can influence overall attitude and actions you are opening a can of worms LOL

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It's well documented in cats that coloration affects overall temperament. There are also suggestions that certain breeds of dogs have different attitudes based on their color. I understand we're talking mammals vs. reptiles here, but it's not farfetched to suggest something similar could be happening.

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Originally Posted by SaintTawny

It's well documented in cats that coloration affects overall temperament. There are also suggestions that certain breeds of dogs have different attitudes based on their color. I understand we're talking mammals vs. reptiles here, but it's not farfetched to suggest something similar could be happening.

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This is mostly due to hormonal and chemical changes in animals we have chosen to domesticate based on a more submissive demeaner and such that causes changes over a couple generation and the animals hair changes due to our selective breeding. Ball python morphs patterns are found in the wild, it's not something we bred to get that couldn't already happen. After all we don't breed snakes for their temperament, so we are not picking animals with different chemical and hormonal balances. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I think even if it was happening, it'd be much less noticeable.

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

This is mostly due to hormonal and chemical changes in animals we have chosen to domesticate based on a more submissive demeaner and such that causes changes over a couple generation and the animals hair changes due to our selective breeding. Ball python morphs patterns are found in the wild, it's not something we bred to get that couldn't already happen. After all we don't breed snakes for their temperament, so we are not picking animals with different chemical and hormonal balances. I'm not saying it's not possible, but I think even if it was happening, it'd be much less noticeable.

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Actually temperament links with pattern aren't necessarily the result of purposeful breeding, especially in cats. For the most part, cats reproduce freely and randomly with any partner they happen across, with the exception of pedigree cats. The "orange cats are crazy" stereotype arose completely independent of anyone breeding for "crazy" cats, or even orange cats. This can happen because the same gene that controls color in the fur can be read differently in the brain to produce hormones at different rates and even potentially with different structures than a cat with no "orange" gene. Genomes contain an extraordinary amount of coding sequences in a proportionally smaller "space" by having certain sequences serve different purposes in different areas of the body.

Well I mostly referring to canine and other species, but yes cats are different. I always thought that was odd, I think it's linked to how it happens in other animals. Has anyone with multiple snakes of the same morph noticed any personal ity simialarities that are different than species wide?

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I have two female mojaves and one male mojave, and if pressed I might say they were a bit feistier than my other snakes, as they are the ones most likely to strike at me, but that's not necessarily a fair observation, considering those three mojaves are the only ones of my snakes I didn't acquire as hatchlings. All the rest of my collection was around 200g or less when I got them. 1.1 of the Mojos were 500g-ish and 0.1 Mojo was ~700g when I got them.

With regards to other species (besides ball pythons and cats) there is a casual observation at my work where we tend to see "black and tan" miniature pinschers being classicly high-strung, owner-focused, and typically protective of a particular family member. "Red" min pins are usually more mellow, and accepting of strangers. I can't say anyone else notices this trend, but it's a common topic at our hospital.

Also, another casual observation, I've noticed that the boyfriend's red-colored cornsnakes tend to be more mobile and snappy while we're cleaning their tubs.

It's possible, my BP Boris is about 18 months now with a very dark brown in his color pattern and he's aggressive as hell! I have no idea what's wrong. He's just extremely cranky most of the time. He's bitten me twice and hisses like crazy about every other time I try to take him out. I'm not sure what to do about it. I thought maybe he's blind and thus very frightened of everything, but maybe it's just the way he is...idk

I thought about putting another snake in with him but that could end in one of them being hurt so I don't know what to do other than to be very patient and kind with Boris.

-Mischa

I heard that Albinos tend to be more temperamental than other snakes because of the T negative gene. Did anybody else hear of this?

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Originally Posted by Mischa

I thought about putting another snake in with him

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Most people wouldn't recommend this even with a "nice" snake. Keeping two ball pythons together is considered extremely advanced husbandry, and 99.9% of keepers just aren't able to make it work. Improperly done, it will stress out both snakes which can make them both more "aggressive" and less willing to eat properly. The only reason to keep two snakes together is the very temporary basis of breeding, a few days together, a few days apart for a little while until ultimately they're housed separately again.

That said, even if keeping two ball pythons together were easy, it wouldn't do anything to help your snake "calm down". They're not social creatures, and having another snake in his space won't make him any friendlier to you, it doesn't fulfill any needs for him. Breeding him isn't going to help his temperament either. It's just a matter of gentle exposure and ensuring he recognizes that you're not a threat.

Edit: It's also helpful to make sure all of his needs ARE currently being met. Appropriate temperatures, humidity, sufficient hiding spaces and clutter in his cage, available water, and appropriate feeding amounts and frequencies.

SaintTawny, are your mojos siblings? I have two fires, siblings, but night and day difference in temperament

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Originally Posted by queenelvis82

I heard that Albinos tend to be more temperamental than other snakes because of the T negative gene. Did anybody else hear of this?

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i've never heard of it, and i have an albino that is very passive. i can't get a reaction out of it (except when i soak her, which she seems to hate). it never balls up, never strikes. very docile and LAZY. it won't even eat unless food is at the hide entrance.


spiders have good feeding response, but spook too easy when young. mine always ball up as soon as a rat sniffs at them. they seem to outgrow this though, as none of the adults are food shy.


i observed that aggression is influenced by husbandry more than anything else. a snake that is often petted is more docile than one that is never handled.

Think there is an effect on temperament from keeping them in tanks vs. tubs?

I watched the Snakebytes video a few years back and found it interesting. My sister who bred BP's had many morphs and her cinnamons, mojaves, and even pastaves were all very defensive as hatchlings and adults. Spiders were always more docile and so were the other lighter morphs which I found strange. And my current piebald is the most relaxed snake I ever encountered and I've been around hundreds of snakes. He is just so calm and lazy like Brian states in his video. Maybe there is some truth connecting colors and hormones.


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Originally Posted by kmp115

Think there is an effect on temperament from keeping them in tanks vs. tubs?

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Bearing in mind that the plural of anecdote is not data...

Just over a year ago we got an adult male normal that was a mess - stuck shed, thin, multiple retained eyecaps, etc. At the time we hadn't built any racks so he went into a 40-breeder with a UTH on a t-stat, covered top to maintain humidity, hides, cypress mulch, etc. Typical tank setup. We could pull him out, fool with him, hold him, and he wouldn't fuss about it. He was also eating, shedding, pooping, and acting like a normal laid back ball python.

Months later we had built a rack with 41-qt tubs, and he was moved into it. Within a few weeks he was hissing, racing to the back of the tub, or diving into his hide every time we checked on him, and he continues to do so. He does NOT like to come out of there, though once he's out he's fine to handle.

Although I'm willing to bet that behavior is likely genetic to a degree, I disagree that morphs probably have anything to do with it considering the large amount of owners who refute this notion, with the exception of spiders. It makes sense that spiders would be an exception to this rule as the mutation that causes this pattern is well known for altering the neurological make up of the animals as well. On another note, hearing that are spiders are goofy and good eaters, I'd be happy if someone could elaborate as this has me interested. :)

This being said, I'd be interested to hear if anyone has attempted to selectively breed for temperament or personality alone. While ball pythons are hardly aggressive by any means, it's clear there are many they are just born as nervous animals and who will occasionally bite and are greatly stressed by handling. (For one, I own such an animal.) This kind of temperament may not be preferred as it may deteriorate the pet quality for some owners who want a calmer snake who won't become as stressed, or for someone who wants to observe the elaborate personality traits and possible miniscule amounts of intelligence that calm and confident ball pythons will display as they spend much less time in a 'flight or fight' mode and more time inquisitively exploring their environment, mostly without a care in the world. To go on, my first BP who I had since she was a little worm, known as the infamous Boots that I've occasionally mentioned, has always had a wonderful personality even since being a hatchling. She is hardly head shy, rarely flinching if her head is touched, and doesn't often show any signs of flight or fight behaviors as she mostly just calmly cruises about or lounges around. (Get her calm enough and she might just gift you with last week's rat and may even let you know how hydrated she's been lately. haha ;)) Temperament wise, she is a perfect pet and comparative to how some users describe their boas, in addition to never having defensively struck at me or anyone else. (I don't own a boa yet so I will not make the claim they are the same.)
In the future, I hope to look into not only dinking around with her pattern, as she appears to be a Harlequin, and a nice example at that, but with her personality as well. Whenever I can find a male who shows the same personality traits she has, mainly being extremely tolerant and calm during interaction and handling and nearly impossible to provoke as it seems, I will look into pairing the two once they reach an appropriate size. Imagine how nice it would be to add being 'tame out of the egg' to all your breeding projects without any effort to handle grouchy hatchlings? ;) In addition to being beautiful in appearance, they would also have a beautiful disposition to boot and likely add the bonus of being perfect ambassadors for educational programs!

And have I mentioned how lovely she is to interact with? Always going on an adventure; all I have to do is wake her up and leave the lid of the enclosure a crack open- as soon as she sees it, she makes a beeline for the exit and crawls right out of her cage on her own.

Anyway, throwing my input out there.

I am just wondering that in SOME cases (please don't throw rocks!) that we may be talking Self-Fulfilled Prophecy here.

What I mean is the the Black Dog Syndrome. Most people have grown to believe that black dogs are more aggressive.

Example: we had Sable colored Collies for 20 yrs running freely in the front yard. They stayed in the yard. Walkers would come by and pet "Lassie", the all American dog.

A few years ago, we get a black Collie. You guessed it. Walkers moved over to the other side of the street, they would not come pet the dog. Same breed, same sweet temperament.

I would probably be guilty of the same.

Im just wondering if our brains possibly cross this type of thinking over to other animals as well?

To add: have you been around those ignorant of snakes and when they see any Black or Brown water snake they yell out "Water Moccasin!"?