3 mice every 7-10 days too much for BP?

Here is my situation. I recently took a ball python from my friend because she wasn't caring for him properly.

Although his age is unknown since she got him from a science teacher, he is definitely an adult and is about 4 feet long.

This poor guy was being kept in a 20 gallon tank the entire time he was in my friends care which was at least 3 years.
The cage was disgustingly filthy; tons of poop, old sheds, hadn't been cleaned in god knows how long.

On top of all that she was only feeding him once every few months.

Since taking him in I've upgraded him to a 40 gallon tank, and feed him every 7-10 days.

My question is since he has always been fed mice, how many should I be feeding him? 3 mice every 7-10 days? More? Less? Opinions please!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you tried to change him to rats? Not that the mice are bad, but you could feed him just one rat every 7-10 days instead of the 3 mice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morris Reese

Have you tried to change him to rats? Not that the mice are bad, but you could feed him just one rat every 7-10 days instead of the 3 mice.

---

No I haven't because I live feed him and I don't want a rat hurting him.


-Amber

You could pre kill or could disorient the rat (putting in sock and spinning around) its a little less violent the the other methods of bashing them... Or like i said pre kill (buy the paintball c02 can and relase little gas into bag/box and once passed out release it quickly for 15-20 seconds then feed to BP)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CORBIN911

You could pre kill or could disorient the rat (putting in sock and spinning around) its a little less violent the the other methods of bashing them... Or like i said pre kill (buy the paintball c02 can and relase little gas into bag/box and once passed out release it quickly for 15-20 seconds then feed to BP)

---

Um neither the sock or bashing are acceptable means of feeding live. That is cruel to the rat. I breed my own feeders. I just feed smaller meals more frequently. I put the feeder in the enclosure and keep nearby with a pencil to put in it's mouth should the snake strike wrong. Treat your feeders with respect. You don't bash them or make them dizzy. A frightened rat is more likely to hurt your ball python. When I put my rats in they are so calm and clueless that they explore and groom themselves.

I used to get nervous of putting small rats in with my ball python. They are pretty dang good at what they do though. Just keep something handy to allow the feeder to bite down on should your snake strike and coil wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CORBIN911

You could pre kill or could disorient the rat (putting in sock and spinning around) its a little less violent the the other methods of bashing them... Or like i said pre kill (buy the paintball c02 can and relase little gas into bag/box and once passed out release it quickly for 15-20 seconds then feed to BP)

---

That's cruel to the mouse. It's more respectable if you just put them in the snake cage and let the snake squeeze the life out of him for about a minute or two! That way the mouse will know next time to stay away from snakes!🐭🐍🙈🙉🙊

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marrissa

Um neither the sock or bashing are acceptable means of feeding live. That is cruel to the rat. I breed my own feeders. I just feed smaller meals more frequently. I put the feeder in the enclosure and keep nearby with a pencil to put in it's mouth should the snake strike wrong. Treat your feeders with respect. You don't bash them or make them dizzy. A frightened rat is more likely to hurt your ball python. When I put my rats in they are so calm and clueless that they explore and groom themselves.

I used to get nervous of putting small rats in with my ball python. They are pretty dang good at what they do though. Just keep something handy to allow the feeder to bite down on should your snake strike and coil wrong.

---

Yea I'm not going to do the sock or bashing or anything along those lines.
But I'm also not switching to rats. So I'll assume 3 mice every 7-10 days is enough since no one seems to want to answer my question directly lol


-Amber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KittenKrusader

Yea I'm not going to do the sock or bashing or anything along those lines.
But I'm also not switching to rats. So I'll assume 3 mice every 7-10 days is enough since no one seems to want to answer my question directly lol


-Amber

---

If the three mice leave a slight lump, 7-10 days is just fine :)

sent via something from somewhere

Hmmm okay. Thank you very much. But if there's no lump, then that's not enough.


-Amber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KittenKrusader

Hmmm okay. Thank you very much. But if there's no lump, then that's not enough.


-Amber

---

Preferably a slight one. If he's a mouser try larger mice or up the amount. Rats just tend to be easier because its usually one and done.

sent via something from somewhere

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rob

Preferably a slight one. If he's a mouser try larger mice or up the amount. Rats just tend to be easier because its usually one and done.

sent via something from somewhere

---

He eats the mice really quickly so it's no hassle feeding him mice. But I will look for some chubby mice tomorrow haha


-Amber

damn, rodentpro is down right now, normally i use these links for reference:

http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_mice mice
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_rats rats

what i remember is that its quite counter-intuitive. a rat can easily be as heavy as 7-10 mice. so 3 mice could be as little as a third of a rat.

i recommend not counting them, but weighing them. oh, the links are now working. so, a weaned mouse is 13-17 grams, and a medium rat is 85-175 grams. but both mice and rats have quite a range in weight.

so, are 3 mice enough? depends on the weight of the mice and on the weight of your BP. its kinda like asking: are 3 meat balls as good as a steak? i dont know, im not a scale, only a scale can really answer it.

You want to see a visible lump after feeding. It doesn't need to be a huge lump, but you do want to be able to see something. Or, you could weigh him and feed 10-15% of his bodyweight.

As far as feeding rats vs mice from a safety standpoint, personally I feel that a small rat (for me that is a 4-6 week old rat) is less likely to be aggressive than an adult mouse. I understand that you feel more comfortable feeding mice, and that is certainly your choice (and there isn't really any harm in feeding mice if that's what you prefer). I just wanted to throw my $.02 out there as someone who raises feeders (rats, mice, and ASFs). I've certainly been bitten by more adult mice than I have small rats (I've culled enough that my rats are really tame...the mice are getting better, and my ASFs all bite).

Like Pythonfriend said it would be helpful to know how much he weighs and how much the mice you want to feed weigh. That will help a lot with giving you a good answer. Especially since you said he was underfed with his previous owners so he's probably under weight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know about the sock thing, but if you guy is like mine and really only likes live food, then I would suggest that you make sure that the rat/mouse has been fed. I know that there are exceptions to every situation, but you shouldn't have any issues with the rats or mice trying to hurt your ball as long as the rat or mouse isn't hungry. I have talked to several breeders and other people who have had bad experiences, and they all say that typically the snake will be fine as long as the rat or mouse isn't hungry, and also as long as you don't leave it in the tank with your snake unattended for too long. i.e. more than 10 minutes. I hope any of this helps.

The snake will let you know how much to feed it. If your snake seems to be looking for more food after the first mouse have been ingested, then go ahead and give him/her another one. That's pretty much how you will know. You have to pay attention to the snakes body language. Well that..and ask lots of questions on BP.net
lol

oh, by the way....

i am fine with feeding frozen thawed, live, or pre-killed.

im not fine with hurting the rat, and then feeding it while it is hurt but still more or less alive. im also not fine with pre-traumatizing the rat. that crosses the line for me. either let the snake hunt and kill the food animal, or use a humane method to kill it. otherwise, treat the rat or mouse well. snakes do what they do because its their nature. we can be more fair. so either the snake kills it, or we kill it HUMANELY. so, please, no smashing or sock-spinning.

methods that are often used and considered humane are cervical dislocation (a defined method of quickly breaking the neck), or gas, most people say CO2 and i can accept that its alright when done properly, i would go for nitrous oxide (laughing gas, causes loss of consciousness, often used on humans for sugery and to introduce anesthesia) followed by nitrogen.

but when its alive, treat the food rhodent well. if the snake doesnt kill it, give it food and water. and please no bone breaking and sock swinging. humans are not supposed to hurt animals that way, unless they are nihilists when it comes to this issue. a snake does what it does, and when we are in charge, a human does what a human does. and treating rhodents badly should not be part of it. mice and rats are intelligent, people keep them as pets, that needs to be respected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Never3

I don't know about the sock thing, but if you guy is like mine and really only likes live food, then I would suggest that you make sure that the rat/mouse has been fed. I know that there are exceptions to every situation, but you shouldn't have any issues with the rats or mice trying to hurt your ball as long as the rat or mouse isn't hungry. I have talked to several breeders and other people who have had bad experiences, and they all say that typically the snake will be fine as long as the rat or mouse isn't hungry, and also as long as you don't leave it in the tank with your snake unattended for too long. i.e. more than 10 minutes. I hope any of this helps.

---

That helps a lot. Thanks so much.


-Amber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

oh, by the way....

i am fine with feeding frozen thawed, live, or pre-killed.

im not fine with hurting the rat, and then feeding it while it is hurt but still more or less alive. im also not fine with pre-traumatizing the rat. that crosses the line for me. either let the snake hunt and kill the food animal, or use a humane method to kill it. otherwise, treat the rat or mouse well. snakes do what they do because its their nature. we can be more fair. so either the snake kills it, or we kill it HUMANELY. so, please, no smashing or sock-spinning.

methods that are often used and considered humane are cervical dislocation (a defined method of quickly breaking the neck), or gas, most people say CO2 and i can accept that its alright when done properly, i would go for nitrous oxide (laughing gas, causes loss of consciousness, often used on humans for sugery and to introduce anesthesia) followed by nitrogen.

but when its alive, treat the food rhodent well. if the snake doesnt kill it, give it food and water. and please no bone breaking and sock swinging. humans are not supposed to hurt animals that way, unless they are nihilists when it comes to this issue. a snake does what it does, and when we are in charge, a human does what a human does. and treating rhodents badly should not be part of it. mice and rats are intelligent, people keep them as pets, that needs to be respected.

---

The idea of gassing/hurting the feeders was never an option for me. That's why I chose to live feed mice, because I thought there was a lesser chance of harm being done to my snake.



-Amber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KittenKrusader

The idea of gassing/hurting the feeders was never an option for me. That's why I chose to live feed mice, because I thought there was a lesser chance of harm being done to my snake.



-Amber

---

I ONLY feed frozen because I'm a big old softie, but as somebody who has kept both rats adn mice as pets (see also: softie):

An adult mouse is 200% more capable of inflicting damage to the snake than a baby rat of similar or even larger size. It's not just a size thing, it's a maturity, experience, and coordination one. I mean feed what you want, how you want (I have one 500+ gram snake I can NOT get off mice, and he eats 2 every 5 days or so). But for safety, if you're feeding live you'd be better off with similar sized rats. At mouse sized their eyes are either closed or barely open and really dont' have the strength and agility to do real damage. They are also way, way slower and less mobile, so they're easier to strike and coil properly.

Again: What you feed matters not one iota to me. I feed mice to one of my sub-adults and it's looking like he's never going to switch), but don't think mice are safer. They aren't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CptJack

I ONLY feed frozen because I'm a big old softie, but as somebody who has kept both rats adn mice as pets (see also: softie):

An adult mouse is 200% more capable of inflicting damage to the snake than a baby rat of similar or even larger size. It's not just a size thing, it's a maturity, experience, and coordination one. I mean feed what you want, how you want (I have one 500+ gram snake I can NOT get off mice, and he eats 2 every 5 days or so). But for safety, if you're feeding live you'd be better off with similar sized rats. At mouse sized their eyes are either closed or barely open and really dont' have the strength and agility to do real damage. They are also way, way slower and less mobile, so they're easier to strike and coil properly.

Again: What you feed matters not one iota to me. I feed mice to one of my sub-adults and it's looking like he's never going to switch), but don't think mice are safer. They aren't.

---

If I were to go by his girth, he should be eating a small to medium sized rat.


-Amber

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KittenKrusader

If I were to go by his girth, he should be eating a small to medium sized rat.


-Amber

---

If you can feed multiple mice, you can feed multiple smaller rats, which present lower bite risk. Though most BP never need to go above smalls, and a small rat is barely weaned and still less coordinated/savvy than a fully adult mouse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CptJack

If you can feed multiple mice, you can feed multiple smaller rats, which present lower bite risk. Though most BP never need to go above smalls, and a small rat is barely weaned and still less coordinated/savvy than a fully adult mouse.

---

I ended up feeding him one medium rat.


-Amber