Stupid expensiveness

:angered: Why must pied ball pythons cost so much can anyone tell me if they've found anywhere selling them for less than $550 which is the cheapest I've found and still a great deal but i still dont have that kind of money to spend then again i might do it neway since it's about %10 of the average price lol :?

Because it takes a long process of breeding, cross-breeding, buying new snakes so the gene line doesn't become inbred, and hundreds of hours of work to produce a single morph snake. You can't just toss a bunch of snakes in together and come back 10 weeks later to a bunch of babies with all sorts of morphs. Most morphs are exorbitantly priced for these same reasons.
I'd be wary of any snake selling for much less than the standard price, even if it were from someone as well-known as Alex Hue.

no i found ones that cost $550 $1,000 $3,000 $5,000 and $10,000

i think i no y it's so cheap now and i'm an idiot lol the ones higher priced are a higher het %age

I may be wrong on this, so someone please correct me if I am...but isn't the piebald a recessive gene? That means if something is a het(erozygous), it's not actually pied.
Here's an excellent site on snake genetics that can help make sense of the situation better.
http://www.geocities.com/bait4snake/genetics.html
The higher the het percentage, the more the snake will cost, all the way up to 100% recessive (true pied). Two high-percentage hets bred together can make a pied, but will not always produce one. All depends on the luck of the draw.

http://www.gatewaycityreptiles.com/avail_balls.htm is where i found the super cheap guys u might want to take a look they are pretty nice ones

no i don't think that it says that because unless i missed it it doesnt say what combos will become piebalds and atleast the very first of every morph have to b het

but it's highly possible i'm just confused but even if they tech aren't pieballed they look exactly the same and if they look exactly the same but are often cheaper then y wud ne one be buying piebalds and waste all that money the answer is they wudn't because the main reason people get piebalds is the amazing pattern

hey all, i'm not an expert, but here my thoughts. pieds are recessive, the hets don't visually show the pied morph. in the ad it looked like a male pied was bred to normal females producing hets. the males were 550.00, you still need the het females to make a pied. those 100% females will cost you 2-3 times the male prices, then you have to raise them and hope for the best at breeding time. as to the price it is all supply and demand. anything not just reptiles is only worth what someone will pay for it. usually as supply increases over the years prices come down. albino balls were 10,000 bucks 10 years ago. now they are 2,500.00 piebalds are cool, maybe one day we can all afford one!


thanks

vaughn

Just so you know, I don't think they're selling the three adults on the top row, just the available offspring. And none of the babies appear to be pied.
It kinda bothers me that all of their snakes are shown balled up and on shavings. Shavings generally aren't good substrate, and balling up is a sign of stress.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by your last post. You don't think what says what? In order for a recessive gene to become apparent (like a piebald), two recessive genes must be paired. This is about a 25% chance when breeding two heterozygous snakes.
From the website I sent you:
This means that all the snakes hatched will look normal, but will carry the gene for albinism. This is called being Heterozygous for Albino. Each snake hatched will have a 100% possibility of being Heterozygous for Albino (4/4 = 100%), or 100% Het Albino as is commonly referred to in the pet trade.
By 100% het, they mean the snakes are absolutely, positively 100% Pp genotype: bred with another Pp, they will produce most likely a PP, 2 Pp and a pp (pied) in their group of babies, or around that percentage.

oohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh now let me go and start yelling crap at the top of my lungs for an hours lol

I wonder if I direct my genetics professor to this thread she'll give me extra credit. :lol:

i hate not being rich lol

personally i think the high prices for morphs are reasonable but in a way irrational. some people love the morphs and the exciting colors. but look i can get a snow corn for 30$ where as i have to pay 600$ for a ball python. it somehow makes no sense to me what so ever. maybe people put in more work to breed ball pythons than to breed corn snakes. oh well i know i won't be getting a bp morph so their is no use in complaigning :)

i like alot of the morphs out there but can't afford them now. i'm starting a breeding group of green tree and ball pythons. hopefully all goes well, it would be nice to have a hobby that pays for itself, breaks even, or at best gives you income to get those expensive morphs!

thanks

vaughn

i would just like to breed one clutch of albino ball pythons and i would be set. albinos are my favorite morphs in all reptiles. they are brightly colored, have beautiful eyes and always stand out no matter what enclosure they are in. and they run kinda cheaper than other morphs(not by much though).

albino are cool, i've seen some ads as low as 550-650.00 for a 100% het pair. that is a good way to get one more affordably.
downside is you have to wait 2-3 yrs. and nothing is perfect.

thanks

vaughn

i couldn't breed unless i moved out of ny anyway. it is illegal to breed in the state of new york and soon it might be illegal to own a boid with out a permit. it would be cool to be bale to breed reeses with someone. well another morph i am a serious fan with and i can really understand the price are the lucy reptiles.

Just as corn snakes are easier to keep, they are also easier to breed. Ball python morphs don't come down in price as quickly as in other snakes because of the time it takes to grow a female to maturity, small clutch sizes, and a variety of other factors. Don't get me wrong... I think ball python morphs are definitely more expensive than they could be... after all, once you've got your breeding groups, they don't cost any more to produce than normals. However, you can't really blame someone who invested a lot of money into the breeding group for getting a bit of a return. And obviously, enough people are buying them that breeders can still charge these prices.

Ball pythons are going through the same thing corns went through 20 years ago
and hhw is correct corns have dropped in price considerably faster than the ball morphs simply due to clutch size and the abilities of corns to double clutch
corn prices were never as high as ball pythons are now but you need to realize that the market wasent nearly what it is today ... and all said i doubt that market would be here if it werent for the corn craze in the 70's and 80's
so just be patient the prices are the way they are due to supply and demand every year there is more supply

This is Ken of Ken Bergman Reptiles, the genetics site you were refering to. You know, I really wish they still taught basic economics in school so questions like what started this forum didn't have to be asked. If there is a high demand for something as rare as a morph that is recessive which takes roughly 3 years to make, added to that the outbreeding that must be done so you don't get over inbreeding, plus a species that only lays on average 6 to 8 eggs per year... like someone would sell a snake for $20 with that much effort and demand...
Think of a mansion versus a double-wide trailer. Not everyone can have a mansion, unless they are successful. You can't have everything you want just because you want it. You have to work hard for it. You can't just start at the top; you have to pay your dues. Some people can't see what it takes to be on top, or the price of material and labor it takes to build a mansion, or make a Piebald Ball Python. Please, go build a house, spend thousands of hours on it, and be forced to sell it for $100. Tell me if you'd ever build a house again.

Ken, welcome to the site. We've discussed this before and tried to explain the investment (time and money) that goes into production of morphs versus normals, but it isn't going to stop all of us who want morphs and can't afford them from wishing that we could afford them. I don't have a problem with the prices, personally. I think it's great that the ball python morph market has sustained itself so well, versus some other reptile morph markets where price dropped too rapidly due to actions on the part of a few breeders.

Agreed. Welcome to the site, Ken! I really liked your genetics website; I'm a veterinary student myself in a genetics course at the moment, so it was really intriguing to me. :D
I have no problem with the price of morphs. If anything, it forces me to think longer and harder about adding to my menagerie because (and I won't lie) aesthetics plays a good part in my decision to own a specific species. Obviously other factors do as well, but working to afford a more unusual look with a temperament I already like and am familiar with makes me value the investment that much more. Can I afford a Pied BP right now? Honey, I eat ramen noodles at least once a day, I'm happy I can always afford feeders for the snakes I have now. ;) But in the future, I would love to have one, and that gives me something to look forward to.

Thank you all for welcoming me!
Yeah, I know you've all talked about it. And it's not the want or desire that we all have for these morphs, it was the "stupid expensiveness" that got to me. I just wish people would see things as an opportunity, like "I can't wait to breed my first corn snakes and sell them so I can buy more and breed them and sell them so I can buy a more expensive species and breed them and sell them so I can buy a Piebald Ball Python" instead of an envious "it's not fair, I want I want I want, gimme gimme gimme" view some people have.
I just wish people knew how easy they really do have it. Every one of us can afford one. Go up to your neighbors and ask them if they would pay you $2000 to paint their house. Charge $20 to mow people's lawns and get your whole neighborhood on a weekly schedule. Get a small business loan from your bank or bring your idea to a financial investment firm for the starting capital to buy your first Piebald and Hets to breed with.
There's so much opportunity in this country; I hate to see it taken for granted. People die in shipping containers trying to make it here. There's some illegal aliens who come to my work and sell tamales and burritos by the hundreds everyday that they spend all morning making. They know what real opportunity means... why do you think they come here?
All it takes is hard work. I'm not calling anyone in this forum lazy, lol. I'm just saying some people would rather watch "The Benefactor" for an hour, a reality show about screwing people over to get a million dollars, and wish they were on the show than go out and walk their neighbor's dogs (and charge accordingly).
Just... I'm begging. Don't envy the privileged. They worked hard to be where they are.
I guess I'm ranting. But thank you for reading it, lol. UberAlice, you're welcome for the genetics site. I worked so long on that. I must have asked two dozen people their thoughts on it and made sure they had no questions by the end of it. How did you find it?

Uberalice is god.

*blush*
Thanks, msolorz. ;)
Bait, I actually found it searching for "snake genetics" on Google so I could explain the het/homo idea to a poster on this thread. It was one of the first pages up, and I thought it was excellent so I passed it on.

Where is the place where it cost 550$ for a good piebald? because I am saving up for 2 years and that equals 960$ so I wanna get one when Im done saving.....do they have a website? PLEASE tell me fast!

the ads for 550.00 are for 100% het for pied males. they are on the kingsnake.com website. these are normal looking bp that have the piebald genes. females will cost 2-3 times that. bp that are visual piebalds run from 4k-10k

thanks

vaughn

oh dang....

I have two 50%HET male brothers that I am going to breed next year. I still wont know until I can breed them back to their daughters when they are big enough to do so. So, I am looking at MINIMUM 4years of feeding, housing, cleaning-up, and caring for before I will know for sure what I've got! Isn't there a DNA test that can be run or something?!?

I really really hope that prices remain high for the bp morphs personaly. I would love to get into the trade and maybe make a few bucks. No money in it if doesnt cost alot. I figure if your in it just for aesthetics, you may as well get into corns. They have quite the managery of morphs and none of them cost alot.

Just a thought for those interested in buying an actual piebald (not het). I read the other day that the genetics for the amount of white in a piebald are totally random. So if you are looking to breed, get a cheaper (as if any of them are "cheap") low white piebald. Its offspring could very well be some fantastic highwhites.

Early on (like when het pieds where $12K) there was some investigation into identifying the gene and coming up with a DNA probe to identify hets. It would have been very hard to identify which gene was responsible so I suppose as hets got cheaper and as the sporadic visible het marker became better known the project was dropped.

If either of your 50% chance het males happen to have the three scale wide white belly with the solid black lines at the edge in the last 3rd of the snake I would concentrate on getting that one bred and any daughters with that marker raised up to breed back. Not all hets show this marker but if you have a choice concentrate on the possible hets that do show it.