HELP! A week into incubation and something is wrong...dimpling!

Hi everyone,

My first girl to lay (first clutch I've ever dealt with!) laid her eggs on 4-4-14 (so they've only been in the incubator for a week!). I had the incubator and egg box set up, all the temperatures and humidity was right, put the eggs in, and everything was fine. On 4-6-14 (so only two days in), I had to leave for a business trip and just got back home about an hour ago. I had a family member who has never dealt with snake eggs "egg sit" for me to make sure that the temps and humidity were right. There wasn't a single problem with the temperatures or humidity while I was gone, so I wasn't worried about them upon my return.

Apparently, we were fooled.

I looked into my incubator to check temps and first, saw this (black is the temp and humidity IN egg box, yellow is temp in incubator):
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...r/photo1-4.jpg

However, I decided to check on the eggs again just in case, and this is what I found:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...r/photo2-1.jpg

As you can see, one is severely dimpled/caved, and a couple of the others are showing minor dimpling. The water you see under the egg crate is water I just added to the substrate before this picture was taken, but is not touching the eggs and had not fully absorbed into the substrate at that time. The substrate was NOT dry when I pulled the container out (a little condensation on the egg container!). My humidity probe is very quick to react, within seconds of pulling it from the bin, the reading changed.

Here are a few more pictures:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...r/photo4-1.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...r/photo3-2.jpg

Here is another picture of the egg with the worst caving. This is after I returned it to the incubator. I candled all eggs while I had them out, and all are more developed than they were five days ago. However, you can see the color change on the bottom of the caved egg (to be honest, I'm not entirely sure if that is from water splashing on the egg as I poured it in, or if that was there beforehand).

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...r/photo5-1.jpg

What are your opinions on this? Should I add some moss to the bin to raise the humidity more? Do you think the caved eggs are doomed? I have another clutch due in about a week and a half, so I'm really worried about what is going on. Any advice at all would be SO appreciated!

Thanks,
Kourtney

Also, forgot to add, that the egg box DOES have a lid on. The lid is snapped in the back, and in the front it is just cracked to let the temp, humidity, and thermostat probe inside. Open maybe 1/16-1/8th of an inch.

I have the same black digital thermometer/hygrometer that you do, and like you the humidity reads 99% in the egg box. My eggs are due to hatch in about 3 weeks and only show some minimal dimpling now.

Where is the humidity sensor, on top of the egg crate, on the eggs, up high...? Mine is up high. If you had it down on the egg crate maybe it gave a false-high reading from being too close to the substrate?

Add press and seal to the container and "burp" every few days.


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I have the same black digital thermometer/hygrometer that you do, and like you the humidity reads 99% in the egg box. My eggs are due to hatch in about 3 weeks and only show some minimal dimpling now.

Where is the humidity sensor, on top of the egg crate, on the eggs, up high...? Mine is up high. If you had it down on the egg crate maybe it gave a false-high reading from being too close to the substrate?

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I have the humidity sensor mid-level in box, so slightly above the eggs. I've NEVER had issues with this sensor before and I have used it for many other projects!

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Add press and seal to the container and "burp" every few days.

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I am out of Press and Seal (OF COURSE, right?) so I put regular plastic wrap on it for tonight and will be getting more P&S tomorrow.

When I was putting the plastic wrap on the box, I touched the caved egg, and the color change on the egg feels like moisture that was absorbed by the shell as I poured in water. I've also added moss around the edges to absorb any extra water and also keep humidity up mid box. No moss is touching the eggs, however.

I'm super nervous for my babies! Will the dimpled eggs "plump up" at all, or will they stay dimpled now?

It definitely looks like the egg has gotten wet on the bottom. You might want to lift it gently and see if you need to reduce the water level.

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Originally Posted by dr del

It definitely looks like the egg has gotten wet on the bottom. You might want to lift it gently and see if you need to reduce the water level.

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I checked it out when I added the plastic wrap by lifting and the water level was fine, I think some water splashed up as I was putting the box back in the incubator.

This morning, there is a lot of condensation on the sides and some on the plastic wrap of the egg box, but none on the eggs. No reducing in dimpling. Is this normal? Anything else I should change? I have damp moss around the edges of the box, should I keep this in or remove it?

Thanks again everyone, this is so stressful!

Also, the egg may be infertile. Have you candled the eggs? I put two layers of egg crate in my egg boxes because the eggs can "bend" into the holes of the crate and touch the wet substrate. My guess is that egg either got too wet on the bottom and is going bad or it was never a good egg to begin with. I would candle then let them be. If the egg gets moldy, hard (solidified solids within the egg) or smelly you will know for sure.

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

Also, the egg may be infertile. Have you candled the eggs? I put two layers of egg crate in my egg boxes because the eggs can "bend" into the holes of the crate and touch the wet substrate. My guess is that egg either got too wet on the bottom and is going bad or it was never a good egg to begin with. I would candle then let them be. If the egg gets moldy, hard (solidified solids within the egg) or smelly you will know for sure.

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All eggs candled good the day they were laid, and I checked them all yesterday and all were more developed than they were before I left for my 5-day trip.

I will add another layer of egg carton.

Do the eggs plump back up as the humidity is increased, or will they stay dented? None of the eggs were solidified, stinky, odd colors (except for the spots where the shell was thinner when she laid, so those aren't abnormal), all look great EXCEPT for the dimpling. Is there anything else I should add? I just don't know if I'm supposed to see the dimples disappear, or if they are permanently dimpled now....

i dont think adding moss or something will help, because when the humidity is already at 99%, you wont be able to raise it more, no matter what you do. the whole bottom is full of water, its sealed, condensation is going on, and its at 99%, so i really think its saturated. at this point, attempts to increase humidty will instead increase condensation.


i dont think there is much you can do. the setup seems fine as it is.

i heared that some people try to re-fill the egg with medical isotonic saline solution (the stuff that can be added into the human blood stream). they put it in with a syringe and seal the hole with some kind of super glue. but you really need to find someone who has actually done it, im not sure about the details. it might do more harm than good.

sometimes the solution is to keep the conditions as ideal as they are, and to do nothing.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i dont think adding moss or something will help, because when the humidity is already at 99%, you wont be able to raise it more, no matter what you do. the whole bottom is full of water, its sealed, condensation is going on, and its at 99%, so i really think its saturated. at this point, attempts to increase humidty will instead increase condensation.


i dont think there is much you can do. the setup seems fine as it is.

i heared that some people try to re-fill the egg with medical isotonic saline solution (the stuff that can be added into the human blood stream). they put it in with a syringe and seal the hole with some kind of super glue. but you really need to find someone who has actually done it, im not sure about the details. it might do more harm than good.

sometimes the solution is to keep the conditions as ideal as they are, and to do nothing.

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I definitely am not comfortable trying to inject any saline or anything like that, I feel like I would cause more harm than good for sure.

I've added a second layer of diffuser to keep the eggs farther from the substrate. I have noticed a couple other wet spots on a couple other eggs. I am going to pick up some athletes foot powder to put on them to inhibit mold and help dry the spots. The collapsed egg did have a teeny amount of white fuzz on it this afternoon, smaller than the eraser on a pencil. All are still "soft", as in the eggs are malleable and shells will push in. I replaced the plastic wrap with press and seal and the only area that may not have a fantastic seal is where the probes are entering the box.

Any other recommendations for "drying out" a wet spot on an egg? The wet spot on the collapsed egg hasn't grown, but I don't really want to give it a chance!

wow, athletes foot cures can be pretty agressive. some products are a combination of a really powerful fungicide, and a skin opener, that allows the fungicide to go deep into layers that would otherwise be pretty much sealed off. but i never heared of a powder, maybe that doesnt contain the skin opener. anyway, i would be careful, have others used it successfully for this purpose?


strange question, i may be completely wrong. but could it be that the humidity is a bit too high? at close to 100% pretty much anything starts to mold, and in nature and in maternal incubation you dont get close to 100%, in nature its more like 70%-80%.

In my opinion you are over reacting a little bit. Your setup is identical to mine and as long as they still candle with veins, I would leave them alone.
I do use two layers of diffuser, no eggs touch the tub, P&S on top with the lid. There is always condensation on the side of the tubs and some times it drops on eggs.....no harm.

In the early years if we didn't use P&S sometimes they cave. Some rehydrate and some don't.

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Originally Posted by Wapadi

In my opinion you are over reacting a little bit. Your setup is identical to mine and as long as they still candle with veins, I would leave them alone.
I do use two layers of diffuser, no eggs touch the tub, P&S on top with the lid. There is always condensation on the side of the tubs and some times it drops on eggs.....no harm.

In the early years if we didn't use P&S sometimes they cave. Some rehydrate and some don't.

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Good to know. I have just read a lot saying that the water on eggs needs to be stopped and kept from molding, and it seems like the powder is a pretty common thing people are using on a variety of eggs to stop it.

Yeah,

I started using two layers of grating after losing a whole clutch due to water touching the bottom of the eggs - I did try using the athletes foot powder but I had left it too late.

I really wouldn't worry too much about the dimpling as I have also had some eggs that were almost flat hatch just fine.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...04adjusted.JPG

If you think the eggs are dehydrating here's how to get them to plump up a bit.

Method 1, Take a damp (not wet) sheet of paper towel and place to over the clutch. Let sit over night.

Method 2, place a bowl over the eggs, this will keep the humidity close to the eggs.

Had my first clutch dimple badly 2 weeks in, I did method 1 to hydrate then method 2 to avoid it happening again.

I had dimpling on most of my eggs if the temps are right and you keep the lid shut except for occasional candling you will be fine we tend to overreact especially on the first clutch. After a couple of clutches you will find that you relax more the eggs are more resilient than you think Ive had windows that freaked me out with mold and dimpling and haven't lost one egg. It will be ok relax and learn here.

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