Super Specter VS Super Stipe

What do you think? I think both look great but the super stripe is more popular, why? I don't see that the super stripe looks all that much better as compared to the super specter. I also think that the super specter would be more powerful when making striped combos. Input plz. I think I might need a female specter in my life!

Visual aides would help for those like myself that aren't familiar with these morphs..

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I think there just happens to be more super stripes produced than super specters so that's what you see the most

Availability. Yellowbellies are everywhere. So once you get the specter gene in your collection its much easier to make superstripes then super specters. Additionally, if you were making superstripes it would make sense to keep most of them as they are much more genetically powerful for breeding purposes.

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I think it's because there are a whole lot more breedable yellow belly females out there. and until recently you could buy a breeder size yellowbelly for less then a baby female specter.

cryhavoc beat me to it lol

super stripe is easier to produce.

super specter is more valuable and clearly more popular. they are rare compared to super stripe, but that does not mean they are less popular.

if you want a great-looking pet, you buy the cheaper and more easily available super sripe.

but as a breeder, when you for example breed a super stripe to a pewter spinner (cinnamon pastel spider pinstripe), you will have no chance to tell apart the specters from the yellowbellys. one half will be yellowbellys and one half will be specters, these are hard to tell apart, add a bunch of extra genes and you will be lost. super specter solves the problem, you know exactly what you get when you breed it. for example, when you breed a super specter (with extra genes) to a yellowbelly (with extra genes), you get super stripes (with extra genes) and specters (with extra genes). that is easy to identify.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

super stripe is easier to produce.

super specter is more valuable and clearly more popular. they are rare compared to super stripe, but that does not mean they are less popular.

if you want a great-looking pet, you buy the cheaper and more easily available super sripe.

but as a breeder, when you for example breed a super stripe to a pewter spinner (cinnamon pastel spider pinstripe), you will have no chance to tell apart the specters from the yellowbellys. one half will be yellowbellys and one half will be specters, these are hard to tell apart, add a bunch of extra genes and you will be lost. super specter solves the problem, you know exactly what you get when you breed it. for example, when you breed a super specter (with extra genes) to a yellowbelly (with extra genes), you get super stripes (with extra genes) and specters (with extra genes). that is easy to identify.

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Where do you get that superstripe is easier to produce than a super specter? Maybe easier to purchase or cheaper to purchase the ingredients but still the exact same odds of producing with the ingredients available. That statement is like saying it is easier to produce pieds from a pair if hets than it is to produce albinos from a pair of hets.

I wish I lived in your world where math only works sometimes.

knowledge is earned not learned

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Originally Posted by T&C Exotics

Where do you get that superstripe is easier to produce than a super specter? Maybe easier to purchase or cheaper to purchase the ingredients but still the exact same odds of producing with the ingredients available. That statement is like saying it is easier to produce pieds from a pair if hets than it is to produce albinos from a pair of hets.

I wish I lived in your world where math only works sometimes.

knowledge is earned not learned

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okay. saying super stripes are CHEAPER to produce is more accurate. they are easier to produce in the sense that people have lots of yellowbelly stuff in their collection, and the ingredients are cheaper to buy.

its kinda like saying a table made of plywood is "easier" to produce than a table made out of mahogany and cherry wood. its actually not easier, but the ingredients are cheaper and easier to get. "cheaper" is more accurate.

except in the case when someone already has ivorys and yellowbellys, and has no specter or super stripe or super specter. and then this person buys a specter, or super stripe, or super specter. then super stripes are in fact easier to produce, because producing a super specter takes at least two generations.

Apples and oranges to me one is a super the other is a Homozyous combo. As far as looks I like the Super spector if given the choice. Just like I love my Pumas but can't wait to see a Super Spark.

I like the idea of having a super specter better than a super stripe. However I am really torn because the length of the project and the security of it would be much more difficult with super specter in mind.
Option 1. Specter route : Specters are said to be the most difficult morph to distinguish. I certainly do not think I could pick one out of a pile of normals. I would have to start with a female specter. I would wait 3 years then breed her to a male albino. Then I would try to pick out specter hets hopefully getting a female specter het albino the first go around and the male in the second clutch (that is if I can pick them out at all). Then I would take the 1.1 Specter het Albino and pair them and hope for an albino super specter. All my dreams would be shattered if the breeder of the original female specter picked me out a nice expensive normal in error!

Option 2. Super Stripe route: Super stripe males are just a little more expensive than specter females so I choose him. I would also have to buy an albino female and wait 3 years for her to grow up. Then I pair the super stripe with the albino and get 1/2 yb and 1/2 specter all het albino. I should be able to pick out the yb so all the remaining would be specter. Depending on the clutch outcome I could hold back a 0.1 yb het albino and 1.1 Specter het albino. In 3 years I breed both girls to the male specter het albino and should get to choose who I like better in person Super Stripe Albino or Super Specter Albino.

Hmmmmmm. I think I will go with door number 2 wouldn't you!


Now what to do with that dang pinstripe! (BTW that Mojave Enchi Pin does nothing for me. Does not stand out enough as a 3 gene critter in my opinion)

Ladybugzcrunch, you seem to think that its easy to differentiate between a specter and a yellowbelly, and that the difficult part is differentiating between a specter and a normal.

i think the problem is a bit different. i think its easy to differentiate between a yellowbelly and a normal, and its also easy to differentiate between a specter and a normal. the hard part is to differentiate between a yellowbelly and a specter.

i think when you have a clutch that is 50% specter het albino and 50% normal het albino, it will be easy to pick out the specters. specters have that broken-up chaotic pattern near the belly, and some flames coming uo from the belly, just like yellowbelly. so in your second option, when you have a mix of specter het albino and yellowbelly het albino, that may be difficult, you might get some hatchlings where you cannot tell if its a specter or a yellowbelly.


but i would like to hear what others think.

I think you would have to be dealing with a very poor quality line of yellow belly to have trouble figuring out which is which. all the specters I have seen look nothing like even a decent quality yellow belly. even the ones I have seen with a little better flaming like a yellowbelly are just not the same color in the alien heads or the pattern. add in the other subtle differences and I don't think you would have trouble sorting the clutch.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

" its also easy to differentiate between a specter and a normal. the hard part is to differentiate between a yellowbelly and a specter. "

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This is just one of the posts that contradicts your quote above

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...-from-a-Normal

From my research, specters are nearly indistinguishable from normals and only a very keen eye that has held many a specter can pick them out of a clutch of normals. Yellowbellys look very different from normals which would also give reason to assume that they look nothing like specters that look like normals.

my Yellow Belly stuff to make YB combos, and my trio of Spectres together to make Super Spectres.

Dave

i was browsing a german breeder and found something that reminded me of this.

he has excellent belly shots of all his BPs.

specter:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/tierbesta...n-regius?c=849

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/tierbesta...n-regius?c=849

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/media/ima...8e_720x600.jpg

yellowbelly:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/tierbesta...n-regius?c=501

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/media/ima...uf_720x600.jpg

and he even has a possible specter / possible yellowbelly, he is not sure, which is the problem i pointed out:
http://www.ms-reptilien.de/tierbesta...n-regius?c=849

http://www.ms-reptilien.de/media/ima...uf_720x600.jpg

i only included a few belly shots, follow the links for a top view and for more examples. he has several of each on his website, with top view and belly view for each one.


it seems like in most cases its possible to tell if its specter, yellowbelly, or normal. with some difficult cases walking the line between specter and yellowbelly, or between specter and normal.

I remember back when the first Superstripes were produce it was from a Yb to what the breeder thought was a reall low quality CH Yb and POP out comes the Super stripe. I've seen a few spectors that seem to hav YB type traits be I'd be hard pressed to pick spectors out of a box of normals and that just because I have very VERY VERY limited experience with them.