Slightly odd behavior...

Riley has been fine all day. He's been well behaved and active when I took him out to the pet store to pick up some extra things for his tank.

Ever since we got home, he's been acting a bit funny. He's laying with his head held up, but he has it turned, so it is upside down. He's also been very disinterested in much movement since we got back.

could the trip to the store and back have stressed him out too much?
or is he just being a snake?

How cold or hot was it outside? How long did you have him out? Have you ever taken him out like this before? What type of snake? How old is he?

Give as much detail as you can and post pics if you can. I'm sure there are other questions other members may ask you to get a better gauge as to what happened or what to suggest. From the info you gave, I can't think of what might be the problem (if there is one). I take my BP out with me at times but haven't noticed any unusual behavior afterwards.

Good luck. Please keep us posted.



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He's a fairly young ball python. The only to move taken him out was when I brought him home but it was much colder that night that it is today. It was roughly 55 outside, but he was kept warm, sitting in my shirt, with my coat zipped up if we were outdoors. We were only for about an hour and, most of the time, when not in my shirt, he was curled up on my wrist, under the sleeve of my coat.

My phone isn't letting me post pictures, or I would. It's been acting really funny the last few days.

Right now, it's almost like he's trying to tie himself in a knot, contorting himself, and rubbing his face against my hand.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-9...25286%2529.JPG

This is how he was laying a bit ago. If you put him down, he refuses to move from whatever position he's in until you pick him back up. I left him alone for about an hour and he refused to stop laying like this. So, I picked him up and he was back to being himself.

head upside down?

is it a spider?

normally BPs never tilt their head sideways. except for spiders, champagnes, womas, and some others.

what you describe is not normal for a classic / non-morph BP, and the contortions you describe seem a bit excessive even for a spider. i mean, of course they may twist and turn when climbing something, but the head should be horizontal. maybe looking up or down, but not tilting sideways. and on a flat surface they should quickly orient their belly downwards and their head should assume a horizontal position even faster.

do you have a PC? or a laptop? posting images or videos to this forum gets really easy when you have full access to the internet. i mean, you still need to put the videos and images somewhere where they can be accessed online so that you can link/embed them here. i dont have much experience with smartphones, but uploading a specific file to a specific website and then retrieving the link seems rather difficult to do on these things. for videos, i recommend youtube, for images the choices are too diverse, any filehoster or webspace will do.


EDIT: i am too late, my post got outdated before i posted it :) in the picture i see that its quite extreme, and it looks like a normal, and it is VERY THIN. like, extremely thin. thin to the degree that it may cause permanent damage. about the strange head movement, that is extreme as well, maybe it gets better after a few meals. anyway, this is not a healthy ball python, he/she needs to gain weight, maybe the neurological problem will go away then. maybe not. anyway, first things first: get this pencil of a BP in shape, which means more weight, which means food.

I'm relatively certain that he's a non-morph BP. I snapped a picture of his back, just to be sure. He's my first and I'm still learning about morph's and such.https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z...2827%2529.jpeg

He has little to no interest in moving, unless he's picked up... Then he just corkscrews his head all over the place and rubs it on my hand, almost like he wants to cuddle.


His temps and humidity are perfect, based off the research I've done, cool side being anywhere from 79-83 and the warmer side being 89-91, humidity fluctuates between 50 - 65%.

He won't wrap his tail around me, unless I'm trying to put him in his tank, he just wants to hang off my hand and do acrobatics.

When I put him down, he puts his head in weird positions like the shot below.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-B...25287%2529.JPG

I was told by the breeder not to feed him for a week or so, to let him adjust to his new surroundings. Should I feed him anyway? and let him start gaining weight?

How long have you had him? That snake is incredibly thin. What are you feeding him?

I wouldn't take him out anywhere any more, especially a pet shop. You don't want him exposed to anything the other snakes may be carrying.

addendum, because i ran out of editing time: the store really sold you a BP that is dangerously underweight. i guess its a hatchling that had 1 shed and has never eaten, and it lost a lot of weight since it hatched.

two things are in order: rest and food. dont waste his/her energy with any handling right now. leave it alone, except for feeding atempts. of course the BP needs access to water and humidity and temperature need to be right. but this poor creature is quite literally running low on energy. so when there is a water bowl and humidity and temperature are agreeable, rest and food it is.


EDIT: the thread was faster than me, again. maybe its older, in the first pic it looked like a hatchling, now it looks bigger. so i retract my assessment that it has never eaten, instead i say: its really underweight. and it seems to be going into shed, which is of no concern right now.

I've had him for two days. They asked me to bring him in today to check up on him and how he's doing. Seemed a bit odd, but I went with it.

I'll head out first thing tomorrow and grab him a pinkie. That's what the place that sold him to me was feeding him, anyway.

I'll do everything possible to give him the rest and food that he needs. Fingers crossed, guys.
Keep Riley and I in your thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

His temps and humidity are perfect, based off the research I've done, cool side being anywhere from 79-83 and the warmer side being 89-91, humidity fluctuates between 50 - 65%.

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What kind of a thermometer are you using to measure temps? How are you heating the enclosure?

ETA: Mouse and even rat pinkies are too small a meal for a BP, hatchlings can eat rat fuzzies at least, if not pups.

I have two digital thermometers and two needle thermometers. One of each on the cool side and one of each on the warm side. Heat is currently being done via heat lamp. I will be getting a UTH as soon as possible. I keep the cage misted and the hygrometer that I have beeps if the humidity goes below 55%, so I get up at night and mist as well.

lll have to remember that when I go in tomorrow. Thanks!
just checking, though, would those be good ideas with how thin he is?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

I've had him for two days. They asked me to bring him in today to check up on him and how he's doing. Seemed a bit odd, but I went with it.

I'll head out first thing tomorrow and grab him a pinkie. That's what the place that sold him to me was feeding him, anyway.

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the good old story.... people working at pet stores that know nothing about the animal.

he/she needs no additional stress. only food. and either they lied about the feeding, or the pinkie was just too tiny. any reputable breeder would keep this one until it is in shape. heck, any reputable breeder would not allow a BP to get into such a condition.

you have your goal: TRIPLE its weight, and im not kidding. dont feed it too often, a 5-day-scedule is ideal, but on feeding day, they can eat one food item after another. look at the picture section of this forum to get a feel of how the body should be proportioned. this forum will help you a lot, many users here keep several hundreds or more.


EDIT: it seems you have temperature and humidity under perfect control. focus on food, but that means 1 feeding day, 4 days off, go for a 5-day cycle. so, basically, when he/she first eats, you can relax a bit. one thing you should get if you dont have it already would be a kitchen scale that measures in grams, i would get one that has a resolution of one or two grams and that goes to a maximum of 2 kilograms or 5 kilograms. then you can track the weight of the snake and can check how heavy the food items are.

Triple weight.
5 Day schedule.
Got it. I officially have a notebook sitting next to my computer for all of this information. Hah.

Should I give him two pinkies or move up to fuzzies?

Update:

Put him in his tank about ten minutes ago... He did this before I put him away...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G...25288%2529.JPG

He put his head into his hide and hasn't moved since. I'm legitimately worried about him. :/.

I've been reading on some older threads that say that their hatchlings exhibited the same behavior and, not long after, passed away. I don't think my heart could take that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

Triple weight.
5 Day schedule.
Got it. I officially have a notebook sitting next to my computer for all of this information. Hah.

Should I give him two pinkies or move up to fuzzies?

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mouse or rat? basically for hatchlings a rule of thumb is: somewhere around 10-15% of the body weight of the snake every 5 days. in this case, i would increase the upper boundary to 20%. when the BP is in better shape and older, switch to a 7-day scedule of 10-15% of its body weight in food. then it depends, as a pet they dont need much as adults, as breeders they need a lot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

Update:

Put him in his tank about ten minutes ago... He did this before I put him away...
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-G...25288%2529.JPG

He put his head into his hide and hasn't moved since. I'm legitimately worried about him. :/.

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i take the optimistic approach and would blame the malnourishment. implying that this will get better and the behavior will be more natural when he/she gets in shape. otherwise you will be stuck with a lovely odd BP :D . which really isnt too bad :D. worry about this issue when the BP is in perfect shape and still shows it. but then, to my knowledge, nothing can be done about it. who says pets need to be perfect, as long as they are healthy.

I stress myself out over my animals. Especially young ones. I'm THAT person. Ahaha.

my husband is going out first thing in the morning to get him food so I was curious to see what I should have him pick up. I don't want my daughter seeing that the snake eats live food. She is four, so I don't want to scar her.

No place around me sells young rats, from when I was calling around before I got him.

Fingers crossed. Thank you so much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

Should I give him two pinkies or move up to fuzzies?

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One rat pup or mouse hopper. Leave him alone to digest - only open his enclosure if you need to spot clean, mist, or change his water. Repeat feeding in five days.

I agree rat fuzzie or mouse hopper. Walmart has scales and they are about 20 bucks or so depending on what ya get. When you get a UTH make sure you get a thermostat for it cause they do get hot!

Oh.
One last thing... He still has a bit of shed left over from the previous cycle and I was told to soak him. I assume that would not be a good idea to do right now, considering the circumstances, but I want to check... Should I soak him or should I just let him be and hope that it comes off on it's own?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by blk02ssmonte

I agree rat fuzzie or mouse hopper. Walmart has scales and they are about 20 bucks or so depending on what ya get. When you get a UTH make sure you get a thermostat for it cause they do get hot!

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Absolutely, on the thermostat. I wouldn't dream of having a UTH without one.

Leave him be with the shed right now if the humidity is good keep misting and keep it high and ne should get it off on his own. Mine are that way at times and I just keep the humidity up and sometimes get it even higher and they usually will get it off.

mouse pinkies/fuzzies would be too small. these are tiny.

do you already have a scale like i described? many people already have one that is adequate in the kitchen. just switch it to grams and try it, many digital scales can do different units.

rats are so much more bigger than mice, through any stage of development.

another rule of thumb for later on, when your BP is in better health and has a more normal shape: the girth of the food item should match the widest girth of your ball python. which means feeding frozen-thawed rats to them where normal people would say: no way that is going to fit. they just dislocate their lower jaw, and their neck and belly and body is really stretchy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

do you already have a scale like i described? many people already have one that is adequate in the kitchen. just switch it to grams and try it, many digital scales can do different units.

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I don't at the moment. I will see if my husband minds grabbing one while he's out tomorrow. My father won't let me use the kitchen one. :p.

I'll have to see if I can find any young feeder rats then. Right about now, I'll do anything to ensure this baby's health.

Agreed, this snake deff needs to be left alone and de-stressed. Balls are notoriously finicky eaters and with it already being underweight and stressed from being handled you really need to let him rest and get used to his new environment. Also, I really don't think it's a good idea to ever take your herp outside when it's in the 50's unless your taking it to a show to sell. I'm sure they don't like it. Good luck :)

Update;

I have been sitting by Riley's tank and, every now and again, he makes a squeak like popping noise. It sounds as though it is coming from
his nostrils.

I called the 24 hour reptile facility and they said, based on clinical signs, that chances are good that my baby has IBD.


he rolled over onto his back and hasn't fixed himself.

its only a matter of time now, I suppose.

my heart is in shambles. :/.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CarrieAnnx3

Update;

I have been sitting by Riley's tank and, every now and again, he makes a squeak like popping noise. It sounds as though it is coming from
his nostrils.

I called the 24 hour reptile facility and they said, based on clinical signs, that chances are good that my baby has IBD.


he rolled over onto his back and hasn't fixed himself.

its only a matter of time now, I suppose.

my heart is in shambles. :/.

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calm down. feed it. relax. feed it. breathe. the ideal scenario is that it eats, and gets in shape over time, and the problems go away, and i would FIRST try that out before going into panic-mode. its so thin, anything may be anything or nothing. why the heck would they not let you use the scale? but then.... get your own one.

EDIT: i dont buy the mention of "ibd" at all. its likely to not be true, and clearly not helpful.

I'm trying. I'm a worrier. Always have been. Hah.

my dad won't let me use it because he uses it in the kitchen. He doesn't want animals and food mixing, even if it can be cleaned. I can understand that.

when he's not thrashing around and contorting himself, he refuses to move at all. He did just try to eat a piece of substrate, though. I noticed earlier that he is no longer constricting to hold on when he was in my hand. He was very stiff before I put him back in his tank.

my gut just says that something is wrong. I can't help that. :/

Update;

Riley passed away sometime this morning. We are calling the shop and seeing what they can/will do about it since he's only been with me for two days.

they said to bring him in tomorrow and talk to their reptile manager.

i am absolutely heartbroken.

I'm sorry. Sometimes youngsters just don't thrive and there's nothing we can do about it. Personally I wouldn't get another animal from the shop - from the looks of the one you did get, they didn't do a very good job with him. There are a lot of reputable breeders in your area who will be happy to sell you a healthy youngster, and probably for less than you paid for the one that passed away.

In case he was sick I would thoroughly clean and sanitize everything in the tank before bringing another snake into the house, especially if you don't have a necropsy done.

Oh, I have every intention of getting a refund from them and finding a decent place around here.

we have already started the sanitizing process, but I can't help with that being around chemicals and such. that's all on my husband... But he's being a huge help.

I am very sorry for your loss, my heart broke reading through this earlier because with the extent of the neurological symptoms he was portraying, he had some definite issues before he entered your hands, and there's nothing you could have done. I hope the pet store makes it right for you. There's no way they didn't notice his behavior, and if they truly didnt, its not the sort of place i'd buy from again. Again, I'm sorry.

I would, if you plan on a necropsy, put him in a fridge to preserve his body. Freezing can deteriorate cells faster and make a necropsy impossible.

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The vet that looked at his body said that he had a blockage that he couldn't pass and that he had contorted his spine when trying to pass it, which is why he was contorted in the ways that he was.

:/.

That would explain why he looked so malnourished, and the possible neuro symptoms if he did indeed injure his spinal column. still... disinfect EVERYTHING. or rather, have hubby do it, in your case. no need to contaminate your next babe with anything if he did indeed have something transferrable.

Will you be thinking about another, or need more time to grieve? understandable either way. :hug:

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Husband is definitely disinfecting everything.

we contacted a breeder early this morning, when we first discovered him. We are picking up a new baby sometime this week or next week, depending on how our schedules match up.

What a terrible situation. They should not have sold you that snake.

They offered a replacement. But I opted to go to a reputable breeder instead.

This is really heartbreaking to read. My little guy is doing the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vanlaz0r

This is really heartbreaking to read. My little guy is doing the same thing.

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Keep him as comfortable as you can and definitely take the advice that I was given. It may not be the same thing.
take him to a vet who specializes in reptiles, if there's one near you.

I tucked him away in his warm hide. My snake was given to me in rough shape. Dehydrated, and probably underfed. I think that combined with the stress of moving to a new location just really did it's toll on him :(. I'm really hoping it's just stress and he perks up.

Definitely. I've got my tongues and fingers crossed for you.<3.

just let him relax for a bit and don't handle him. The folks here really helped me out, so definitely take their advice.