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  • 02-25-2014, 07:59 PM
    ER12
    US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    MIAMI -- The U.S. government has asked a judge to dismiss a lawsuit that seeks to overturn a nationwide ban on four giant snake species.

    Attorneys for Interior Secretary Sally Jewell and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service say the United States Association of Reptile Keepers has not sufficiently explained why importing the snakes into the U.S. or transporting them across state lines was vital to research and conservation activities among its members.

    In a motion Friday in federal court in Washington, D.C., the government dismissed the association's claims that snake sales funded those activities.

    "Not only are these interests entirely economic, they are also totally unrelated to the environment: they involve the breeding and selling of captive snakes as part of the pet industry," the motion states.

    The North Carolina-based association says the ban has cost reptile breeders, handlers, hobbyists and vendors tens of millions of dollars. In December, the group challenged the science behind the ban in a lawsuit.

    The government's attorneys also said the lawsuit failed to support claims about economic losses felt by the association or its members.

    "We still feel very confident about our position," Joan Galvin, an attorney representing the reptile keepers association, said Tuesday.

    The ban on Burmese pythons, yellow anacondas and northern and southern African rock pythons was announced in 2012. Wildlife officials say it protects native wildlife and will help prevent non-native snakes from spreading, as Burmese pythons have in Florida's Everglades.

    Florida's population of Burmese pythons, which are native to India and other parts of Asia, likely developed from pets let loose either intentionally or in the aftermath of Hurricane Andrew in 1992.

    A bipartisan group of 18 lawmakers recently asked the Obama administration to extend the current ban to five other types of giant snakes: boa constrictors, reticulated pythons and three species of anacondas. They said the snakes pose an "unacceptable and preventable risk" to human safety and native ecosystems.

    Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/02/2...#storylink=cpy
  • 02-25-2014, 09:43 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    Well, this really rustles my jimmies. What are the odds USARK will still prevail? What happens next?
  • 02-25-2014, 09:44 PM
    Mephibosheth1
    they'd need someone not affiliated with a reptile special interest group to give a TON of data before they'd budge...
  • 02-26-2014, 02:23 PM
    MasonC2K
    Wow! They were really trying for that angle? No wonder it got dismissed. They needed to fight against the bogus science used to ban the animals not some made up junk about research.

    Disappointed in USARK.
  • 02-26-2014, 03:15 PM
    OctagonGecko729
    Man you folks seem to cave at the first sign of resistance. Of course they would do a motion to dismiss, this is a very common thing. This isnt over by a long shot, its only just begun. Here is USARK's update on the matter. http://usark.org/2014-blog/lawsuit-u...lert-and-more/
  • 02-26-2014, 03:30 PM
    MrLang
    I have to agree with Mason. Why on earth would that be the angle they take? It IS economic based it is NOT conservation and research based. The lawyer that recommended that route should be fired. This article doesn't go into it, but I'm curious to hear the elevator pitch on why the ban is disruptive to research and conservation efforts.

    Meanwhile "we need more pet owners to speak up!" has been the message we are getting from USARK. Which is it, do you want pet owners to speak up or do you want 5 random university grad students who happen to do their thesis on constrictor snakes to speak up? Am I reading or interpreting this wrong?
  • 02-26-2014, 03:44 PM
    sorraia
    Meanwhile domestic dogs and cats continue to destroy hundreds of thousands of native animals...

    That's my first thought reading the concerns about the "threats" these snakes pose to native wildlife. I am a conservation biologist too.
  • 02-26-2014, 03:50 PM
    CryHavoc17
    Re: US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MasonC2K View Post
    Wow! They were really trying for that angle? No wonder it got dismissed. They needed to fight against the bogus science used to ban the animals not some made up junk about research.

    Disappointed in USARK.

    They are claiming bad science as part of the lawsuit. It just didnt come up as part of the grounds for dismissal by the governments lawyers. This is all legal routine, its the first thing any lawyer does when trying to fight a lawsuit.

    Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk 2
  • 02-26-2014, 04:26 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    Re: US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MasonC2K View Post
    Wow! They were really trying for that angle? No wonder it got dismissed. They needed to fight against the bogus science used to ban the animals not some made up junk about research.

    Disappointed in USARK.

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MrLang View Post
    I have to agree with Mason. Why on earth would that be the angle they take? It IS economic based it is NOT conservation and research based. The lawyer that recommended that route should be fired. This article doesn't go into it, but I'm curious to hear the elevator pitch on why the ban is disruptive to research and conservation efforts.

    Meanwhile "we need more pet owners to speak up!" has been the message we are getting from USARK. Which is it, do you want pet owners to speak up or do you want 5 random university grad students who happen to do their thesis on constrictor snakes to speak up? Am I reading or interpreting this wrong?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by USARK
    This is fairly routine and entirely expected, particularly here, as this is first ever challenge to a Lacey Act “injurious” listing.

  • 02-26-2014, 04:33 PM
    Skiploder
    Silly armchair quarterbacks. Anyone familiar with the Drake's Bay Oyster farm fight? Read up on that and then join Andrew Wyatt in calling for the debunking of science approach. Ask Kevin Lunny about the DOI, admitted false environmental reports and who gave a crap about them.

    History shows that the DOI often makes their own science, the goverment gets all loose in the pants when people go after the economic angle.
  • 02-26-2014, 07:28 PM
    OsirisRa32
    Re: US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sorraia View Post
    Meanwhile domestic dogs and cats continue to destroy hundreds of thousands of native animals...

    That's my first thought reading the concerns about the "threats" these snakes pose to native wildlife. I am a conservation biologist too.

    Check your #'s again...domestic dogs and cats destroy hundreds of millions of native animals every year...some reports and studies claim its in the billions.
  • 02-26-2014, 07:32 PM
    sorraia
    Re: US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by OsirisRa32 View Post
    Check your #'s again...domestic dogs and cats destroy hundreds of millions of native animals every year...some reports and studies claim its in the billions.

    I couldn't remember off hand the exact number, and don't have the energy to look it up at the moment. Regardless, its enough to do something about if these agencies were so concerned about conservation and protecting native wildlife. These actions are a cheap shot at an easy target.
  • 02-27-2014, 08:34 AM
    artgecko
    Does this proposed addition ban all types of boa constrictors or just BCC? Wasn't sure as the wording is vague on that.. The others are noted by species... Not that it matters, it's all still bad, but was curious as I am about to become a boa owner myself.
  • 02-27-2014, 07:49 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    Re: US government dismisses reptile keepers' claims
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by artgecko View Post
    Does this proposed addition ban all types of boa constrictors or just BCC? Wasn't sure as the wording is vague on that.. The others are noted by species... Not that it matters, it's all still bad, but was curious as I am about to become a boa owner myself.

    Boa constrictor as a species, includes BCI and BCC, as well as BCL, BCA, and any other boa subspecies/localities. The ban on boa constrictors never was taken into effect, and I'm hoping USARK will keep it that way, especially since they are fighting the first portion of the ban already and plan to fight again if the second portion takes into effect.
    Nonetheless, this wouldn't stop me from getting a boa.
  • 02-27-2014, 08:32 PM
    artgecko
    Thanks for the info. Yeah, it won't stop me... I've already paid for my male BCA... Just waiting for shipping weather. I was just curious... I just can't see the logic in laws like this, especially at a national level. These snakes wouldn't be a problem (if they escaped, etc.) in all but the warmest states. Dogs kill / injure far more people and animals probably in 1 month than snakes have in years.
  • 03-11-2014, 06:50 PM
    Bluebonnet Herp
    For some reason, this isn't showing up on there homepage but is available via Facebook. I will post it here, nonetheless:

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by USARK@http://usark.org/2014-blog/lawsuit-update-and-more-31014/
    Lawsuit Update and more (3/10/14)

    By USARK on March 10, 2014
    USARK Federal Lawsuit Update

    Last week, USARK responded forcefully to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service’s (FWS) motion to dismiss our complaint challenging the legality of FWS’ listing of the Burmese, Northern African, and Southern African pythons and yellow anaconda under the Lacey Act. Incredibly, the Government argued USARK and its members suffered no “injury” from its decision to ban importation and interstate commerce and transportation of these species.

    In response, USARK filed declarations from President, Phil Goss and other members and supporters detailing the economic, aesthetic, conservation, and personal injuries resulting from the Fish and Wildlife Service’s arbitrary decision. This evidence will be supplemented once the case moves beyond these preliminary skirmishes into the merits of USARK’s case.

    The Government’s primary argument was that USARK had no standing to raise its four claims:

    That FWS unlawfully interpreted the Lacey Act as granting it the authority to ban interstate commerce and transportation of listed species within and among the continental United States;
    Two claims arising under NEPA, or the National Environmental Policy Act: Claiming failure to take a “hard look” at the scientific and conservation issues raised by USARK and others during the public comment period;
    A general claim that the listing was arbitrary and capricious (disregards reason and logic; a decision without reasonable grounds or adequate consideration).

    In its motion, FWS claimed that USARK’s complaint lacked both “prudential” and “constitutional” standing to bring our NEPA and Lacey Act challenge.

    “Prudential standing” is a judge-made concept that seeks to ensure that a plaintiff in a legal action has some interest under the provision of law on which its case is based. Here, the Service claimed USARK’s and its members’ interests were purely economic, and so it was precluded from raising claims under NEPA, which is an environmental statute. As to the Lacey Act, a law under which no plaintiff had ever before brought a case, the Government said it was only concerned with the impact of invasive species. According to FWS, as USARK was (in its narrow view) only concerned with economics and in selling snakes the government found to be injurious, we do not fall “within the zone of interests” the Lacey Act is meant to protect.

    To the contrary, USARK noted, the organization and many of its members have conservation interests that the listing has harmed. Among other things, we presented evidence that the listing has burdened efforts to eradicate Burmese python in the Everglades, made research and conservation efforts more difficult, and caused undue hardships (and possible premature death) to members of the listed species that could not receive medical care because the nearest herpetological veterinarian was across a state line. Goss also explained USARK’s actions and mission, explaining the support it provides to its members scientific, conservation, education, and economic activities.

    According to USARK’s counsel, FWS was demanding way more detail than is needed at this stage in terms of allegations. However, our legal team has no doubt that the evidence presented fully refutes any claim that the organization lacks standing to raise its NEPA claims.

    The Lacey Act claim is one of first impression. The government’s claim that the law is only about conservation and protecting the environment has, as USARK acknowledged, superficial appeal. We went on to note, however, that a close reading of this law shows that it is also about protecting economic activities, including agriculture and forestry, which are clearly not about protecting nature. Indeed, USARK noted that herpetoculture is closely related to those types of activities.

    The Lacey Act also protects the pet trade. For example, it carves out certain types of foreign, captive-raised song birds. Also, by limiting its scope to only “wild” animals, it provides FWS no authority to regulate feral pigs and cats, both which wreak immense ecological damage. The “constitutional standing” challenge is essentially FWS’ claim that USARK’s members have suffered no injury. The declarations presented clearly addressed that issue.

    The final two claims were largely technical. The more important of these, a claim that USARK cannot bring its challenge to FWS’ ban on interstate commerce, is premised on the grounds that this ban was adopted in 1965 and so the statute of limitations has passed.In response, USARK noted that it was challenging the January 2012 listing of these four snake species, which added an entire new section to FWS’ regulations. Given that, it is difficult to see how a rule adopted 24 years earlier can affect our case. USARK also pointed out that even if this old rule has any relevance, there are many exceptions to statute of limitations defenses in regulatory challenges like this.

    The Government now has seven days to file a reply. View the Opposition to Dismiss at http://www.usark.org/wp-content/uplo...ion__Order.pdf. View USARK declarations (Exhibits to Opposition) from supporters and President Phil Goss at http://www.usark.org/wp-content/uplo...Opposition.pdf. As reported earlier, the initial deadline was 3/7/14 for USARK to file, but USARK counsel took advantage of a three day extension to file the final brief.View previous FAQ posts concerning this case at http://www.usark.org/2014-blog/lawsu...alert-and-more and http://www.usark.org/2014-blog/actio...lative-updates.

    NARBC Tinley Park

    NARBC is back in Illinois this weekend (March 15-16). Once again top vendors from across the country will have incredible animals for the attendees. Be sure to attend the USARK/PIJAC benefit auction, held Saturday night, to protect your freedom to keep reptiles and amphibians as pets. Brian Potter always keeps the event lively and entertaining. NARBC raised over $100,000 to support the pet community in 2013. Get all the show details at www.narbc.com/Tinley/tinley_park.html.

    Volunteers: Needed during the show to work booth, collect auction items, and sell raffle tickets, and also for auction set-up. Please send an email to info@USARK.org or a private message on our Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/UnitedStates...ReptileKeepers if you would like to help with “NARBC Volunteer” as the subject.

    ACTION ALERTS: STATE LEVEL
    Your legislators need to hear from you!

    Other 2014 proposed legislation and information can be found at www.usark.org/2014-legislation/. By contacting your legislators, they know their constituents are against these overreaching bills. Voices from within each state matter most. USARK is contacting state legislators concerning these issues and voicing opposition on behalf of our members and herpers in these states.
    News and Upcoming Events


    Chicago Herp Society’s ReptileFest: April 12-13, 2014 from 10:00 AM-5:00 PM in Chicago, IL. The nation’s largest educational reptile and amphibian show is back. CHS does a fantastic job educating the public at this event, which does not include live animal sales. Attendees can learn about appropriate pets, native species and conservation. There will be opportunities to hold animals, ask questions and enjoy these incredible creatures. More information at www.chicagoherp.org/fest.

    David Northcott Health Battle: Dave is a remarkable person, award-winning photographer and cherished member of the herp community. He is battling a heart condition and has been informed he will need a transplant. You can support him at www.gofundme.com/6g1rak. We wish you well, Dave.

    Cancer Battle: A fellow herper, Patrick Gerbert (TattooedGiants Reticulated Pythons), is battling stage 4 non-Hodgkin lymphoma. A fundraising page has been started at www.gofundme.com/Help-Patrick. We wish you the best in your fight, Patrick.

    Indiana Reptile Breeders’ Expo: March 16th in Clarksville, IN and March 23rd in Richmond, IN. More details at www.irbexpo.com.

    Pacific NW Reptile and Exotic Animal Show: March 29-30 in Hillsboro, OR. The PACNWRS is a public trade show exhibiting over 100 vendor booths offering exotic animals and their related merchandise. In addition to animals and products for sale, there are educational reptile and exotic mammal displays for the whole family. Get all the details at www.pacnwrs.com and http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pacifi...c-Animal-Show/.

    OKC Elite Reptile Show: After a great first show, the second OKC Elite show hits Oklahoma City on May 3-4. More information will be posted at https://www.facebook.com/events/2549...57115/?fref=ts.

    Snake Days: May 30, 31 & June 1 in Sanderson, Texas. Great educational lectures, field herping, photo contest, clean highways project and more. Get the details at www.facebook.com/events/690350000995984/ and www.snakedays.com.

    Biology of The Pitvipers Symposium: June 4-7 in Tulsa, OK. Learn more at www.biologyofthepitvipers.com and www.facebook.com/BiologyOfThePitvipersSymposium.

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