Selling Pet Rat?

Does anyone sell some of their color rat as pets? I do it because they can cover some of the bedding and food money. And I sometimes feel bad to feed those cool looking pattern and colored rat to my snakes, so I want them to be someone's pet. But sometimes when people are looking to buy my rats, they ask me if they are pet rat. This is a pretty hard question for me because I want to sell them as pet, but they are produced as feeders. I always tried to avoid this kind of question since most people have a pretty bad image about breeding rats for feeders and those rats do not live in good conditions. However, I feed all my rats with the best rat food i can find (harlan). All my rats are super healthy and never bite people, so the rats are pretty good quality (They are definitely better quality than those rats in pet store). Any of you guys have this kind of dilemma?

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Originally Posted by j94712

But sometimes when people are looking to buy my rats, they ask me if they are pet rat.

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The simple answer to that question is, "Yes". What you do with the other rats you produce is your business, and beyond their purview. ;)

I have bred beautiful fancy dumbos, Rexs, Double Rexs, & velveteen for over two years and tried to sell them for $10ea on Craigslist. Multiple times. Good deal for a pretty and healthy baby right? Cant seem to even give them away. I have given up. People want the sick feeder rats at Petco or the aged $13 psycho rats at Petsmart.
Ill pretend that my snakes like the pretty ones best, so they will still be loved. Just as food not a kids pal.

What Slim said. 'Is this rat a pet' - Yes it is a pet for sale. If it doesn't sell it may not be a pet, but what do you think happens to pet store rats and hamsters that stick around too long? I've sold some rats as pets. Actually the people felt a little bit like they were 'saving' the rats from me, which is fine. They were pretty cool about it... I explained I don't feed live, raise them in uncrowded conditions, treat them as pets, give treats, etc. My experience has been with people who are more curious than upset.

I have some VERY rare and fancy rats, so I'm sure the people who buy those might ask more questions. The ones that are going up for pets get put in a tank and socialized and put in a high traffic area of my house so they aren't scared of people. I think most people ask because they're wondering how socialized the rats are when they get them.

Whether you breed show rats, pet rats, or feeders, they should all be shown equal amounts of care and husbandry techniques. If you're breeding feeders, would you want your snakes to eat sub-standard stock? If you treat them as valuable, they will remain healthy and well bred. The difference for most people is the level of socialization, as the above reply mentioned.

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You guys are absolutely correct! Although I rats are for feeders, I treat them with respect and they do not live in crowded condition. Sometimes there are just people who would rather choose pet store rats that are eating terrible and expensive pet shop food. I don't really like to say that pet store terrible because people still buy them.
So yesterday, someone was interested in my rats, and she asked if they are pets. And i said yes because i'm trying to sell them as pets, but then she asked if the rats' parents are pets as well. I answered no and said that the parents are breeders. This kind of situation is just pretty frustrating because they will usually misunderstand what i really mean.
Thanks for all the input that you guys have, really appreciated.
By the way, i can post some pics of my rats. They are really cute in those pics!

Please do post photos! Some people are very particular about their rodents...

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I breed pets that just also happen to be feeders as well. ;)
I breed food for myself and the extras get sold as pets to cover the cost of food/bedding.
All of my rats have been selectively bred for color, coat, and ears. All of my rats are dumbos. Some are rex and double rex. I am very particular about my rats and their care. Some of the folks who have bought pups from me still contact me for care advice.

Honestly, I think most small scale feeder breeders are some of the best rat keepers around.
I can bet that most of our rats live better lives than some pets out there. We want clean healthy rats because quality rats = quality food. We also intentionally breed for temperament. Biters are culled and not allowed to pass on their genetics since aggression and behavior is heritable. Not to mention that tame friendly feeders are safer feeders for our carnivorous pets.

And what most people don't know is that almost all pet store rats do come from feeder lines (usually from big commercial breeders). The difference is that our rats are socialized, get a quality diet, and are bred for temperament.

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Originally Posted by Archimedes

Please do post photos! Some people are very particular about their rodents...

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I will when I get home!

I often feel like it is easier for us as feeder breeders to produce friendly, healthy pet rats. If we happen to get a rat who is aggressive, bites, antisocial, unhealthy, etc; we do not have to house it forever or find it a forever home in which someone may be unnecessarily burdened because of poor genetics. We are able to cull those that do not make the cut, and quickly get to breeding the best of the best.

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Originally Posted by aldebono

I often feel like it is easier for us as feeder breeders to produce friendly, healthy pet rats. If we happen to get a rat who is aggressive, bites, antisocial, unhealthy, etc; we do not have to house it forever or find it a forever home in which someone may be unnecessarily burdened because of poor genetics. We are able to cull those that do not make the cut, and quickly get to breeding the best of the best.

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I agree. We all have the ultimate punishment for bad rats:snake:. Sounds pretty cruel but that's how you keep your feeder colony in good condition

Word dude. I dont even mess with snakes man. I just post here because the rat community is insufferable.

In fact, I primarily breed rats as pets, as well as hamsters, etc.

I guess my question is...why shouldn't you be able to sell rats off as pets? I do occasionally although I don't really try to, but if someone is looking for a pet I can usually find one they like. I don't worry about how socialized they have been because rats are very social by nature anyways. I can go into any cage and do anything I want with the rats or their babies and not be concerned about being bitten, if I do on rare occasion have an agressive rat, it usually gets put down right away...usually this is a new mom on babies and she may or may not get to raise the litter. If she really being highly agressive (charging across the cage in attack mode) she's going down right away and the litter gets scattered through other cages to be raised. This is very rare for me though and out of about 30-40 colonies at any given time, I probably run across a rat like this only once every 2-3 years at most.

All my rats get treated the same and it doesn't matter if it's a standard brown or hooded, or a pew dumbo rex, a blue berkshire dumbo rex, or a hairless dumbo, etc... they all get the same food and live in the same cages and I don't doubt that any of them could make a great pet if someone wanted it just as well as the others next to it.

They would most likely all make good pets because you have high standards for your rats and cull heavily. That is the recipe for good rats in your colony.

Want to know how I handle that situation?

I tell the truth. Yes, I raise rats as feeders and as pets. I do sometimes get the questions about breeding rats to be food. For example, if someone is interested in getting a rat from me as a pet, and I get the inevitable "Are the parents pets?" or whatever, I say yes they are. It is the truth. Even if the majority of the babies are intended as food, I still clean, care for, talk to and love on the parents, so yes they are pets.

Now, as to the person who presses the matter, I tell them the truth. I raise my own food for my snakes. Period. When I get the shocked stare and the mumbling, I ask them if they have a pet. Dog, cat, ferret, bird, whatever. I ask if they don't want the best for their pet. So I ask, if you knew that pet store and grocery store food was making your pet sick, wouldn't you change what you fed? Wouldn't you want to give them only the best possible food? The answer is almost always yes. Then I ask, so why is what I do any different? By raising my own food, I make sure my pets get only the very best quality. That ends the arguments every time.

Gale

I would rather buy a pet rat/mouse from a feeder breeder any day. It just makes more sense. Herpers usually pay way to much attention to detail (temps, substrate, enclosure space, genetics, weight, diet, background, etc) which is what everyone should want from a seller. :D


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Great response guys!!:bow::gj:
Now the next question usually follow up after "are their parents pets?" or "Are they pets?" is "Do you handle them a lot?"
i usually answer that i handle them once in while, which is at least once a week (I need to take them out of the tubs when i handle them.).
And another thing that really piss me off is that some other people (NOT ALL OF THEM), so called the true "rat breeder", said in their ad about how people who raise feeder rats do not treat rats well and the rats are living in those small "tubs." By saying this, they can conclude that our rats are generally not friendly and have no history.
I respect what these people do for rats because this is pretty much the same as us breeding snakes, but saying our rats are no good for pets in their ads just doesn't seem right to me. Again, i'm not saying every rat breeder does this, but i have seen some.

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Originally Posted by j94712

Great response guys!!:bow::gj:
Now the next question usually follow up after "are their parents pets?" or "Are they pets?" is "Do you handle them a lot?"
i usually answer that i handle them once in while, which is at least once a week (I need to take them out of the tubs when i handle them.).
And another thing that really piss me off is that some other people (NOT ALL OF THEM), so called the true "rat breeder", said in their ad about how people who raise feeder rats do not treat rats well and the rats are living in those small "tubs." By saying this, they can conclude that our rats are generally not friendly and have no history.
I respect what these people do for rats because this is pretty much the same as us breeding snakes, but saying our rats are no good for pets in their ads just doesn't seem right to me. Again, i'm not saying every rat breeder does this, but i have seen some.

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i would think the parents would be pets because you know them better then there offspring which wont be with you as long and they've experienced a lot of interaction with you through cleaning and what not. I say my breeders are my pets cause i take such good care of them and strangely enough they keep me company sometimes which according to Wikipedia "A pet (or companion animal) is an animal kept primarily for a person's company or protection" but what does wiki know :cool:

Here are some pics of my rats!
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/...psbf68a212.jpg
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8a9d0b08.jpg
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2e99008b.jpg
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/...ps463ad229.jpg

I think the people asking those questions are more concerned about getting a rat from a hobby breeder than from a pet store. They are trying to determine if you are breeding healthy, happy, friendly rats, or if you are essentially doing the same thing as a pet store (breeding any rat to every rat, in a nutshell).

There is a the belief that feeder breeders don't care about their rats and don't take good care of them. This is of course a false generalization. There may be some who don't care for their rats well, but many do in fact care for them well. Many feeder breeders in fact love their rats. There is also a common belief that rats "shouldn't" be food for another animal. This is undoubtedly false. Rats are food. So are chickens. So are pigs, sheep, cows, horses, snakes, lizards, etc. Pretty much every animal can become food for another animal. Even the top predators can become food (scavengers may eat them when they die, and fungi and bacteria certainly eat them when they die). We aren't exempt to these rules either, we are food for other animals, our society and fear and avoidance of nature are the only things saving us from our natural fate.

For those people concerned about finding the best pet, they want to avoid feeder breeders, regardless how well we care for our rats, because the records aren't there that *might* be available from a hobby breeder. Because we feed off a good number of our rats, we don't know what their full complete health history is. If we feed off breeders instead of keeping them as pets (I know that varies from one breeder to the next) after retirement, we don't even have a direct family health history of our rat. As such, we can only vouch for the health we see at the time, but we may not be able to vouch for end of life health. We may not be able to say our rats live an average of 2 years, 3 years, or however many years, if the majority of our rats are dead before they reach a year of age. We can't vouch for their respiratory health as they age, or the fact they won't be prone to developed HED, CHF, or tumors. We simply don't know if we don't have those long term records. Even if we did keep our breeding rats as pets after their retirement, we would only be able to vouch for that direct familial line (which does carry more weight than distant or indirect relatives), we couldn't vouch for the full health of everything we've produced. We can definitely say our rats are friendly and happy and well cared for, because that's what we can see every single day. We just won't have the full and complete health records that a hobby breeder *might* have. This is what many of the pet people are concerned about.

Now I wanted to specify, I keep emphasizing a hobby breeder *might* have these records, because a majority of them don't. Most hobby breeders don't keep detailed track records on all of their rats. Many of them don't even keep in touch with the people who buy ("adopt") their rats. So in reality, they have as much in the way of long-term familial health records as we do, and in some cases we might even have better! It all depends on the individual breeder and his or her practices The pet rat hobby doesn't fully understand these technicalities though, and feed largely on rumor and myth.

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Originally Posted by iamratpimp

Word dude. I dont even mess with snakes man. I just post here because the rat community is insufferable.

In fact, I primarily breed rats as pets, as well as hamsters, etc.

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INSUFFERABLE! I've been trying to get a few genetic questions answered recently and I'm just appalled at how snobby these people are. Get a life - holy crap! You're breeding RATS here people. I'm so glad there are knowledgable, reasonable, friendly people here who enjoy rat breeding. Here's a reply I got from a 'breeder' this morning when I asked for some clarification on a few rats I have:

"I make it a policy not to tell people what they have for colors on their rats. The issue you're running into is that you're breeding rats from an unknown background when you get them from a pet store. You have no idea what colors they're carrying. All you really can do is best guess. If it matters to you what colors you're producing, you should use breeding stock with a well documented pedigree.

Most breeders are going to react pretty condescendingly when asked breeding questions. As breeders, we get bombarded with questions from many people. I actually rarely answer these type of questions, but you caught me in a good mood. :) It can be overwhelming for a hobby breeder to answer questions over and over again when the information is out on the web for people to find.

I know that when I first started breeding, I had to overcome a lot of obstacles to earn the respect and friendship of other breeders, but it was well worth it. The important thing is to always make the best decisions for the animals, and to realize that it is not a money making venture. Quite the opposite."

another one:

"I cant tell anything from blurry pics. I wont even entertain then. I dont send them to people and then wonder what colors rats are. I only look at or send good pics that people can see. Its not fair to do other wise."



Unbelievable... INSUFFERABLE!

Sounds like fancy rat breeders all work at the DMV :D


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Besides breeding rats for the necessity of snake food, i actually enjoy it. I find it rewarding every time after i cleaned their tubs and see new litters popping!
It's pretty enjoyable to be able to share some of my thoughts on this with this particular community because many of the people are very knowledgable at breeding rats and care a lot about the rats. Thank you guys so much!:)

Seeing your location, back in the day I would have been one of your main competitors in terms of pet rat market. ;)
I'm just breeding for my snakes now. I rather like not having the drama. Hehe

Yes, people who breed "show" rats and mice are for the most part, horrible, hateful stuck up people that I would just as soon slap silly as give the time of day to. I've had to deal with more than my fair share over the years.

They quickly and easily forget how naive and lost they were when they got started, and have little tolerance for people just starting out. I have long since found some of the best people to talk to about mice and rats are reptile people. It's strange how people who raise them for food tend to know more about them than the ones who are supposedly breeding them to "improve the bloodlines" whatever that is supposed to mean.

My local mom and pop pet shop tries to only get pet rats from me if they can. While they know a number of people who breed "pet rats", mine are the only ones that can be handled by anyone from the start, the only ones who don't reek, and the ones who sell the fastest. I have in fact, sold rats to customers in the store before the owners even get to see them. I walk in the door with my babies and get mobbed by people wanting to see and hold and play with them. I find it amusing my "snake food" rats sell out in a matter of days, while the "show quality" rats another woman brings in now and then sometimes end up there for months without being sold.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Yes, people who breed "show" rats and mice are for the most part, horrible, hateful stuck up people that I would just as soon slap silly as give the time of day to. I've had to deal with more than my fair share over the years.

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They sure are. Good grief, I remember a story last year where one of them stole imported mice from a joint shipment, and the community practically imploded ... Every single person involved on both sides is a disgusting example of humanity. You stole MICE? Seriously? Ech.

I'd love to sell some rats as pets. Would love to see the nicer ones be something other than food. But there's just not a market for them here. I give them the best life I can until they reach the end of their line.

My best friend is in the rat community and hates the people there. They're incredibly haughty and just not personable at all.

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You guys are great. Haha.

Think about the difference in attitude for the bp community. There are breeders who have collections with single animals worth 10,000+ dollars and they're still completely humble and willing to help noobies. Meanwhile, the rat people are high and mighty with a collection worth a few hundred bucks at best. I know money isn't the goal here, but just thinking about the contrast makes me pretty happy to be here.