Pastel Butter x Spider (Maternal Incubation)

I'll be using this thread to keep a record of Charlotte's maternal incubation. She laid today, and I will be offering her a small meal next week after she has settled.

Substrate is coconut husk and sphagnum moss. Charlotte's body temperature tonight is 89.7 degrees. She has at least three eggs, possibly four or five.

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Looking forward to your updates and your findings. I want to do maternal incubation myself next year.

Good luck!

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She's a beaut!

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She's a great looking girl! I am going to follow along for many Charlotte updates over the next couple months, keep us posted!

Thanks everyone. :) I feel that there's a big shortage of information and pictures on maternal incubation, so I'll be doing my best to thoroughly document things.

I'll be watching this thread with interest. Charlotte is a hottie :gj:

I misted the substrate near the front of the cage, and moved her water dish so it's about six inches from her "nest" area. I may move it a little further away to avoid excess water getting on or under the eggs.

Last night and this morning her body temperature dropped to between 88.5 and 89.3 degrees. She has the eggs so tightly coiled that I can't see any eggshell at all. Probably working great for keeping in the humidity.

How does she react to you moving things in the tub? Showing any signs of "protective momma syndrome"?

Congrats and best of luck with the clutch!

Congrats!!:gj:

Congrats and I am interested in watching this as well.
Please keep it all in one post so we don't miss anything. ;)

That's so neat! I'll be watching as well. I'm afraid to let any of mine maternally incubate.

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Originally Posted by Slim

How does she react to you moving things in the tub? Showing any signs of "protective momma syndrome"?

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She seems fine with it, honestly. I moved her water dish away a little today, and temp gunned her. She will flick her tongue at me, but doesn't move otherwise. I'm trying to only check once in the morning and once at night, and be very careful when I move things.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Congrats and I am interested in watching this as well.
Please keep it all in one post so we don't miss anything. ;)

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I wish I could edit the original post to post updates, but I am settling for posting everything within this thread.

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Temps still reading steady at 88.3 - 89.5 degrees.

I love seeing more and more people giving maternal incubation a shot. Personally, I love watching females incubate their own eggs. She looks like she is doing great:)

Still doing well. Misted and temp-gunned. Will offer a small meal this week.

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Awesome! I'm considering having a girl Maternal Incubate soon =] I like the idea of it a lot, so I'm glad to see your posts! Definitely keep us updated on everything!!!

Subscribed!!! Please keep this thread updated....


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Charlotte's temperature is 88 today. I offered a weaned soft fur (she usually eats jumbo adults), and she took it. One of the coolest things I've ever seen. Eggs are slightly wrinkled so I'll be adding more water to the substrate later today.

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It is going to be so cool watching your journey with her maternal incubation!


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Charlotte's temperature is 88.5 today. Eggs are completely covered again.

House was warmer than usual today, so I went to check on the snakes. Charlotte had uncovered the eggs for the first time since eating, and may have even moved the nest forward a little. Hard to say, but she's partially on the substrate now when before she was tucked into the bare spot.

Correlation doesn't equal causation, but I think she may have done this to lower the temperature of the nest.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I offered a weaned soft fur (she usually eats jumbo adults), and she took it. One of the coolest things I've ever seen.

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I can't believe I missed feeding day! It takes real talent to eat a rat and stay coiled on the eggs at the same time!!!

Somewhat concerned because Charlotte is temping at 85-86 today, which is the lowest it's been. I think this is also evidence that she moved the nest forward when it was too warm though, so it's possible she could move it back onto the heat tape if needed. Will check again later.

Jumping in to follow along. Very cool.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Somewhat concerned because Charlotte is temping at 85-86 today, which is the lowest it's been. I think this is also evidence that she moved the nest forward when it was too warm though, so it's possible she could move it back onto the heat tape if needed. Will check again later.

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I'm sure mama knows what she is doing and those eggs will be fine. :thumbup:

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Speaking of mama knows best, is this Charlotte's first clutch?

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Awesome thread I will be following this now good luck

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Speaking of mama knows best, is this Charlotte's first clutch?

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Yes, this is her first clutch. :)

This is amazing!

Following :) :snake:

FWIW, all of our females maternally incubate, and we heat our room to 85F with no supplemental heat. So I don't think the 85-86 temp is cause for concern. In addition to moving the eggs, females are capable of raising the temps slightly by themselves through thermogenesis (basically, females use muscle twitching to generate heat). If she feels like the eggs need to be warmer, she can get them there:). And you are right, females will loosen their coils if they want to drop the temp of the nest. We had a/c unit go out once, and our room hit 87-88 while we were fixing it (only for a short time). All of our females loosened up or left the nest altogether. Once the temps dropped, they all went back to normal.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

FWIW, all of our females maternally incubate, and we heat our room to 85F with no supplemental heat. So I don't think the 85-86 temp is cause for concern. In addition to moving the eggs, females are capable of raising the temps slightly by themselves through thermogenesis (basically, females use muscle twitching to generate heat). If she feels like the eggs need to be warmer, she can get them there:). And you are right, females will loosen their coils if they want to drop the temp of the nest. We had a/c unit go out once, and our room hit 87-88 while we were fixing it (only for a short time). All of our females loosened up or left the nest altogether. Once the temps dropped, they all went back to normal.

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I have read somewhere that ball pythons aren't able to raise their temperature with thermogenesis like other pythons are.

But the temperature of the eggs is fine right now. Up at 87.5-88.5 last time I checked.

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

I have read somewhere that ball pythons aren't able to raise their temperature with thermogenesis like other pythons are.

But the temperature of the eggs is fine right now. Up at 87.5-88.5 last time I checked.

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I have found papers saying that they can, and papers saying that they can't.....I have also found papers that say that carpets and diamonds can't/don't use shivering shivering thermogenesis, but I have seen videos of them doing it. There are even some old papers that say ball pythons will not maternally incubate. So I think there is some really bad info out there...I have been trying to figure out how I could get my females to keep a thermometer probe in with the eggs. I would like to log the temp range of the eggs. Since we use only ambient heat, I am curious if the females are actually maintaining the egg temp above the ambient.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

I have found papers saying that they can, and papers saying that they can't.....I have also found papers that say that carpets and diamonds can't/don't use shivering shivering thermogenesis, but I have seen videos of them doing it. There are even some old papers that say ball pythons will not maternally incubate. So I think there is some really bad info out there...I have been trying to figure out how I could get my females to keep a thermometer probe in with the eggs. I would like to log the temp range of the eggs. Since we use only ambient heat, I am curious if the females are actually maintaining the egg temp above the ambient.

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Yeah, I've also seen a lot of conflicting information. Part of the reason I am doing maternal incubation myself. I think it's important to contribute as much accurate information as possible.

I've just been using a temp gun on the female herself, which seems fairly accurate. When the eggs are showing they seem to show the same temperature her body is at.

Today I offered another meal, and was able to get a better shot of the eggs and an updated count. There are at least six eggs, I strongly suspect there are seven or eight. Not bad for your first clutch Charlotte, not bad at all!

The soft fur managed to get a hind leg free, and kicked one of the eggs multiple times. When it did this, the shell gave slightly and then resumed its original shape. Yes it was heart-stopping to watch, but the eggs (and Charlotte) appear to be uninjured.

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What a great thread - thank you! Best of luck to you and Charlotte. Sounds like everything's going well so far.

This is awesome!

This is awesome! I want to try this sometime. Maybe I'll let a girl go "all natural" next season just to try it out.

I was planning on trying this when I breed my girl. I don't really trust technology that much but I do trust mama to know what's best for her eggs and adjust.

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Thanks everyone. I went to check back on Charlotte and she had the eggs fully covered again, but looked interested in more food. I think I will try offering every 5 days or so, just small single meals. Next time I should have some rat pups that are roughly the right size. She doesn't usually take rats, but she might right now.

Now is the perfect time to try rats! I hope she takes one for you.

Today marks the two week point for the eggs. Only 7-8 weeks to go. :rolleyes:

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Very cool. Don't worry, this time will fly by quick. Glad to see she's doing well.

Has she been lying on the eggs all this time or has she abandoned them for a little bit to slither around?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Misha

Very cool. Don't worry, this time will fly by quick. Glad to see she's doing well.

Has she been lying on the eggs all this time or has she abandoned them for a little bit to slither around?

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She's always been on the eggs. She partially uncoils to cool them or to kill/eat food, but even then she has them wrapped. Granted she's just in a 41 quart, but she shows no inclination to leave the eggs at all.

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Originally Posted by FireStorm

FWIW, all of our females maternally incubate, and we heat our room to 85F with no supplemental heat. So I don't think the 85-86 temp is cause for concern. In addition to moving the eggs, females are capable of raising the temps slightly by themselves through thermogenesis (basically, females use muscle twitching to generate heat). If she feels like the eggs need to be warmer, she can get them there:). And you are right, females will loosen their coils if they want to drop the temp of the nest. We had a/c unit go out once, and our room hit 87-88 while we were fixing it (only for a short time). All of our females loosened up or left the nest altogether. Once the temps dropped, they all went back to normal.

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I am really interested in his maternal incubation & it seem to me that u have the most experience... Do u have pictures & Info's where u can educate us more on this.... Maybe start a new thread....? I am very sure lots are interested in this...


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This is an awesome thread, love it! So looking forward to the updates :)

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

Yeah, I've also seen a lot of conflicting information. Part of the reason I am doing maternal incubation myself. I think it's important to contribute as much accurate information as possible.

I've just been using a temp gun on the female herself, which seems fairly accurate. When the eggs are showing they seem to show the same temperature her body is at.

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I know this is kinda late, but on female ball pythons raising the temperature of their broods . . . I think, maybe they can. Most if not all of the carpet subspecies can, so can a few (most?) other pythons. (Actually, I've never seen literally suggestions diamonds specifically can't, and am pretty curious who wrote that?)

I went MI last year with a retained sperm clutch I hadn't planned on, enjoyed the heck out of it, and will do it again. Last summer was very cool here. Temps in my studio, where the snakes are, frequently dipped to the low 70s and upper 60s. I had to grab my notes for this, but on June 12th, the lowest temperature recorded in the room was 67 degrees. The ambient temperature in the cage was 72, with a reading of 75 closer to the nest. Dahlia never let the probe stay with the eggs, so I don't know what temperature they were actually experience. This was Day 10. Granted, she nested half on, half off, her heat source. The eggs still began pipping 63 days, which is what I get in the incubator.

So, I dunno. Figured it wouldn't hurt to throw that out there.

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Originally Posted by Alicia

This is an awesome thread, love it! So looking forward to the updates :)




I know this is kinda late, but on female ball pythons raising the temperature of their broods . . . I think, maybe they can. Most if not all of the carpet subspecies can, so can a few (most?) other pythons. (Actually, I've never seen literally suggestions diamonds specifically can't, and am pretty curious who wrote that?)

I went MI last year with a retained sperm clutch I hadn't planned on, enjoyed the heck out of it, and will do it again. Last summer was very cool here. Temps in my studio, where the snakes are, frequently dipped to the low 70s and upper 60s. I had to grab my notes for this, but on June 12th, the lowest temperature recorded in the room was 67 degrees. The ambient temperature in the cage was 72, with a reading of 75 closer to the nest. Dahlia never let the probe stay with the eggs, so I don't know what temperature they were actually experience. This was Day 10. Granted, she nested half on, half off, her heat source. The eggs still began pipping 63 days, which is what I get in the incubator.

So, I dunno. Figured it wouldn't hurt to throw that out there.

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What substrate were u using? And how high humidity did u aim for?


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Originally Posted by RuGGeR

What substrate were u using? And how high humidity did u aim for?


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Mix of sphagnum moss and cypress mulch, the nest was all sphagnum (she pushed it all aside, anyway). Followed the advice in Quiet Tempest's sticky and aimed for a RH >70% . . . It ended up being around 75-77% for most of the incubation.

How bout cleaning? When they continue to feed, they continue to poo.... No cleaning?


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