New Boa Questions

Hey guys,
I just bought my first boa today. She’s an albino, female RTB BCI. The people I bought her from said that her hot spot shouldn’t ever get above 90 for risk of neurological damage. Because she said that took her telling me to set the thermostat to 85. She’s being housed in a Sterlite tub until she gets bigger, as I think she’s pretty young. So, can anyone tell me what I should have set my Herpstat to, and what the ambient temperature should be about? I have a ball python, how similar are these 2 creatures as far as habitats go? What should her hot side and ambient temperatures actually be? And with feeding, should I feed her every 2 weeks, or once a week, or every 10 days? The breeder said 2 weeks; many of the care sheets say 7-10. I currently feed my ball once a week. I don’t want to make this pretty little girl sick or anything so any help would be great!


P.S.
If anyone wants to see a picture of her, let me know and I will find a way to upload it. :)

Boas are pretty bullet-proof. They are hardy and easy to care for and generally always eat, lol.

Boas can sustain neurological damage from too-warm temps, but 90 isn't going to do that. Nor is 92. I wouldn't go higher than that, but as far as being safe, that should be fine.

Now, having said that, I have found that most boas do prefer cooler temps. I like a hotspot of 88 and ambient temps between 76-78. Set your Herpstat to 88 and measure your temps with a temp gun and adjust the Herpstat accordingly until you achieve 88 on the hotspot itself. This is usually enough to keep the ambient temps where they need to be as well as long as your room temps aren't too cool. :gj:

Boas are easy to overfeed. But babies should be fed a bit more frequently than adults. I do every 7-10 days for neonates. Juveniles are every 10 days. If your baby is/was used to eating every 2 weeks, then I would adjust that to a 10 day schedule. Feed one prey item that is not so large that it leaves a lump. Unlike BPs, you should NOT see a lump in your boa's belly after she eats. Less is more with boas.

Congratulations on your little one! We would all like to see pictures! And be warned - boas are like potato chips. Betcha can't have just one! :D

Hi,
Thanks for responding. I will adjust her herpstat. When you say " neonate" you mean babies?
What about her humidities? When the ball gets ready to go into shed, 70-75% gets a good shed for her. On normal days, her humidities stay about 60%... will these be good for the boa?
Unfortunately, I was told by the boyfriend that I was not allowed to have any more snakes. :)
I will try to get a picture of her uploaded soon.

I believe this will upload a picture of her... at least if I followed the instructions on the sticky properly!
http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/a...psf0e2d528.jpg

She's very cute!!

Poo on your boyfriend, lol. Maybe once he sees how much fun a boa can be, he'll lighten up a little. Give him time. ;)


Humidity is fine at about 60-70%. I mist a little when they go in shed just to help, but boas don't generally have a problem with that.

The caresheet here is very good. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...tor-imperator)

The care sheet you pointed to said to feed weekly, so I will try that first and if she regurges, I'll move her to every 10 days. I like to keep my feed days the same as the ball so that neither snake gets aggressive because I prescent the room before feeding. I was told to feed every 2 weeks, and that doesn't bother me, I just want to do what will be best for the new baby. :)

The boyfriend probably doesn't want me to get anymore snakes for a while because he is the one to take care of them, I.E. feed and clean them most of the time...

I get the fun part of holding and interacting with them.
My ball has developed a shed schedule and has tell tell signs of going into shed, such as going off food. Will the boa have any tells of going into shed, that aren't visual?
What is the average times for them to shed if they are fed properly, my year old ball sheds about once every 2 months, on average.

Thanks for helping me out! :)
-Amanda

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

The care sheet you pointed to said to feed weekly, so I will try that first and if she regurges, I'll move her to every 10 days. I like to keep my feed days the same as the ball so that neither snake gets aggressive because I prescent the room before feeding. I was told to feed every 2 weeks, and that doesn't bother me, I just want to do what will be best for the new baby. :)

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1. Feeding different schedules in no way makes them aggressive. I have 31 snakes and they can't all eat at the same time. Some are weekly, some are every 10 days, some are every 2 weeks, etc. Even pre-scenting the room won't cause aggression - that is a myth. I wouldn't feed your BP and then try to handle the boa, lol, because she'll be in feeding mode, but it won't make the snake aggressive.

2. That is the one thing that I don't like about our caresheet. Boas do NOT need to be fed weekly. I will say again, if your baby is used to feeding every 2 weeks, go to a 10 day schedule. You want to AVOID regurging when at all possible. Baby boas can die from a regurge. It is very hard on their system. And they are more likely to regurge due to improper feeding than BPs are. I strongly recommend a 10 day schedule.

That is what I meant, when I said aggressive. It just takes away a day that I can hold one of my girls is all. On the shedding, do boas shed similar to balls? Like, is it likely that my boa will go off food when it comes time to shed? What are some cues to know that the boa is getting ready to go into shed?

Thanks,
Amanda

Boas do not go as "blue" as balls do. Their eyes will cloud over, but I can usually tell they are going into shed because they get really dark and kind of dingy looking. Also, mine tend to dissappear. If I haven't seen them out for a day or so... And from my experience the overall start to finish of a boas shed is longer than a balls. As far as feed, mine have never, ever, missed a meal... Also, I would follow Evenstar's feeding recommendations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

That is what I meant, when I said aggressive. It just takes away a day that I can hold one of my girls is all. On the shedding, do boas shed similar to balls? Like, is it likely that my boa will go off food when it comes time to shed? What are some cues to know that the boa is getting ready to go into shed?

Thanks,
Amanda

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As Doolittle said, they don't tend to "blue" as much as BPs do when going into shed. You may notice that she looks wrinkly though. It's hard to explain, but they do start looking a little different.

The "feeding mode" only lasts that night. Plus, it is completely unnecessary to pre-scent the room for boas. You may need to do so for your ball, but you won't need to for the boa. They are garbage disposals and will eat anytime anywhere.

I still say, stick with a 10 day feeding schedule. You'll still be able to hold the snake the 8 days between (like any snake, you should give it 48 hours or so after eating to digest before handling). Handling should be the last thing to consider when working out a feeding schedule.

Quote:

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You want to AVOID regurging when at all possible. Baby boas can die from a regurge. It is very hard on their system. And they are more likely to regurge due to improper feeding than BPs are. I strongly recommend a 10 day schedule.

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^^ I'm not trying to harp on this - remember, we are only trying to help you. But it would be a shame for this to happen to your pretty baby just because you wanted to hold her more often. You wanted to know what would be best for your girl. In my educated opinion, a 10 day schedule would be best. :gj:

Ok guys, here is the deal.
I'm actually blind, I.E cannot see.
So,When the smell of food is in the air, I don't put my hands in the tub at all. lol
That is why I was trying to figure out the best way to feed.
So, it looks like I'll feed the ball on Thursdays, and just won't go in the boa tub that night either. Then When the boa gets fed, the same for the ball. :)

You say prescenting isn't needed for boa's, but would it help keep them out of the habit of expecting food everytime the lid comes off?
That's why I mainly prescent for the ball.
Again, it's more of a safety thing sense I'm blind and am just sticking my hand in the tub on faith their not hungry. lol
It's not because I just want to hold all the time.

Hope this makes more sense.

Now on the Shed, I guess it won't hurt them to eat if they are in shed?
Is there any other way to know if they are getting ready to shed other than colors?
My ball will act a little different while being held.
She won't really uncurl, and stays a little tense, and gets a little jumpy. Then the big one, she refuses food, which so far she only does during the actual shed.

Any traits like that to help me out?

About how long does a boa's shed process last?

Sorry for the explanations, but it might help you guys see where I'm coming from. :)

I don't know that there is really anything you could go by feel on as far as a boas shed. A good way for you to help your boa distinguish between feeding and handling is hook training. Which may be a good idea if you're blind. Boas have crazy feed responses.

My boa was in a tub in my room (where my rats are) for weeks and never showed any feeding response when I went to get her out. I also feed the ball pythons I have in the living room and while she eyes me down, I can reach in and grab her without any issue. Maybe it's just her, but if my hands don't smell like rat I don't think I'm going to have an issue.

I second the hook training idea. I am getting my first boa in the next couple of weeks and plan on doing this with him as well.

Basically, you use a snake hook to "stroke" or "touch" the boa every time you go in it's cage to handle or clean the cage, etc. This let's the boa know that you're there and they don't see the hook as a threat. The only time you do not use the hook is when you feed, so the snake knows food is coming then. You can also use the hook to gently lift or maneuver the snake to an easier to grab position although people do not recommend using the hook to lift a larger boa due to their weight.

I don't think I completely understand the hook training. If you can't see the snake to start with, and can't feel a little baby snake on the hook, is that really safe? I have never seen a hook, because with my ball I just don't put my hands in her tub with the smell of food in the air. The idea of the hook is a completely new concept to me. It isn't a big deal now since she is very small, but she will grow, and I don't want her biting me when she does get bigger. Up till now, with my ball, I haven't been bitten yet. *knock on wood* lol

I see your point. The hook is basically used to "condition" the snake to expect handling and not food when it is used. Some people use other methods, like tapping the tank in a certain way, etc. when feeding or when handling. Basically, you are doing something every time you handle the snake that you do not do when you are going to feed.

The hook is a similar shape to a cane, with a rubber handle a long shaft and a hook, but usually shorter, between 18" - 36". The hook part is blunt and some have a rubber coating.

In your case, it might be hard to "find" the snake with the hook since you can't see her.

I'm not sure if this would work, but you could try getting a pair of heavy gloves... like work or lightweight welding gloves. Use these to get the snake out when you are not feeding (that way you could feel her but not get bitten), but remove them once she is out of the tub. When you are feeding, don't use the gloves and use your feeding tongs or whatever you already use for your ball. Many people recommend gloves when you have a "nippy" baby snake until they grow out of it... It gives you more confidence and when you are more confident, the snake will calm down more quickly.

Good luck with her!

If I keep getting nipped when reaching in for her, then I'll try the gloves.
I want to try doing things with her like the ball and prescent the room prior to feeding, this has helped my ball to realize when it is feed time and not. Prescenting the room prior to a feeding should condition the snake to only expect food when they can smell it.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amanda1226

Ok guys, here is the deal.
I'm actually blind, I.E cannot see.
So,When the smell of food is in the air, I don't put my hands in the tub at all. lol
That is why I was trying to figure out the best way to feed.
So, it looks like I'll feed the ball on Thursdays, and just won't go in the boa tub that night either. Then When the boa gets fed, the same for the ball. :)

You say prescenting isn't needed for boa's, but would it help keep them out of the habit of expecting food everytime the lid comes off?
That's why I mainly prescent for the ball.
Again, it's more of a safety thing sense I'm blind and am just sticking my hand in the tub on faith their not hungry. lol
It's not because I just want to hold all the time.

Hope this makes more sense.

Now on the Shed, I guess it won't hurt them to eat if they are in shed?
Is there any other way to know if they are getting ready to shed other than colors?
My ball will act a little different while being held.
She won't really uncurl, and stays a little tense, and gets a little jumpy. Then the big one, she refuses food, which so far she only does during the actual shed.

Any traits like that to help me out?

About how long does a boa's shed process last?

Sorry for the explanations, but it might help you guys see where I'm coming from. :)

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Amanda, why didn't you say so right from the beginning?? We are completely non-judgemental here and we might have been able to alter our own conventional thinking right from the get-go in order to help you better. I'm in no way being critical. I am blind in one eye myself and have other issues as well. So I get it. I really do.

Pre scenting the room won't accomplish what you're hoping for with boas. None of mine think FOOD every time the tub is opened. And I feed everyone in their enclosures. Even Bellatrix, who'd really like it better if I were dead, doesn't automatically think FOOD when her tub is opened. Frankly, this is another myth. Pre scenting will actually make it MORE dangerous on the days you're feeding the boa. They will come 2/3 of the way out of their tub/enclosure in a full on strike even withOUT pre scenting!! Believe me, you don't want a freakishly hungry 8 ft boa charging out its tub and coming after you. Whether you can see or not. And boas really DO have that kind of feed-response. They are not like balls.

I like the idea of hook training for you. But my take is a bit different. I would not try to actually pick up a snake with a hook. Because you can't see where the hook is in the tub, you won't know what part of the snake you're actually hooking. What I would do is use the hook to simply make the initial reach and touch/stroke the snake with it momentarily. This will let the snake know you are about to reach in and there's no rat at the moment. Snakes may be pretty primitive, but they do learn this pretty quickly.

Boas seem to take a little longer than balls to go through the shed process. And they seem to be grumpy during this time as well. They hide more, stay somewhat tense, and may have a dry feel to them - almost like the scales are lifting a bit.

I feed my guys whether they are in shed or not. Boas will eat whenever - they don't care. I've never had one have a problem.

I do believe that a 10 day schedule would be the best for your boa. But she COULD eat every 7. I prefer going with smaller prey more often instead of the other way around. Start with a 10 day schedule for 6-8 weeks and if she does well, you could go to every 7 with a slightly smaller prey size for the next 8-10 months. Then she'd be ready to go back to a 10 day schedule for a short time before moving to 2 weeks. Does that make sense??

Do ask if you have any other questions or concerns. We do want to help you! And now we have more information with which to help you better!! :gj:


*** One other idea! You could put your ball python on a 10 day schedule as well! My BPs eat much better that way.....

Oh, I didn't think of prescenting working a little to well. lol
Having a snake come out at me might not be fun, at any size. lol

I just liked prescenting with the ball b/c I thought it might minimize the chance of being mistaken for food, and to keep me from having to wave a rat around on stats for 5 minutes until she realizes a rat is in there. :)

Is your ball full grown?
My ball has no problems eating currently, so I've never had to play around with different things.
Now another snake is in the room, I'm having to think about the way I do things now.

From the sounds from what everyone is saying, and what I've read, boa's don't need the prescenting.
How would it affect it if I still feed my ball every 7 days and prescented?
Obviously I wouldn't want to mess with either snake until the next day, but after that would everything be cool?
You said that a boa can come 2/3 of the way out of the enclosure without prescenting, that kind of frightens me.

Amanda I have to totally agree with Kali that pre scenting with a boa could be dangerous. The only bad bite I ever had from one of my boas happened on a feeding day when I brought the rats in the room and for some reason set them down and left the room for 15 or so minutes (something that I never did). When I came back all the boas were in a frenzy searching for the food and when I opened my 8 ft. girls cage she made a good 4 ft. lunge and grabbed my hand. First and only time she ever bit me or even tried to. I'm not trying to scare you with that story just offering my experience with what others are saying. I've never owned a boa that didn't have an amazing feeding response. I think that if you are going to feed your BP and boa on separate days pre scenting for the BP will be fine as long as you don't open the boa's cage after doing so.

I have 2 fully adult ball pythons. My female is about 2700 gm and roughly 5 years old. My male is about 2300 gm and is about 9 years old. The male in particular will go on hunger strikes in the fall, but neither ball eats very well over the winter. I usually have to resort to live rats for winter feeds. They are eating f/t alright at the moment though. They are each fed 1 medium rat every 2 weeks.

Of all my 31 snakes, I have NEVER had any of them mistake me for food. I know I've said it 2 other times already, but this is yet another myth. Unfortunately, there is so much misinformation floating around the internet that stuff like this becomes common. Honestly, you have nothing to worry about. If your Ball is eating well now, you should be able to just feed him and call it good. Pre scenting is unnecessary just because you don't want to be mistaken for food. Our snakes are smart enough to know feeding day, really they are. ;)

If you absolutely must pre scent the room, your boa should be fine. Both snakes should be fine the next day. I always wait 48 hours after feeding to handle any snake, but you could handle the one that didn't eat the night before on the following day. Don't be surprised if the boa starts striking the front of her tub though when you feed your ball.......

Boas have a freakishly insane feeding response. But they are also mellow, laid-back snakes as a general rule. However, they are capable of lunging fully out of their tubs to grab food. I have had that happen with several of my boas. I have to stand to the side when feeding my female Argentine because she'll come sailing out snapping at anything in sight. Bear in mind - this is on feeding day and when I have a rat dangling from tongs in front of her tub. If I were to walk in the room right now (it's 9:30pm and about when I feed), I could open her tub, reach right in with bare hands and pick her up and she'd be a total kitten.

Seriously consider moving your ball python to a 10 day schedule too!! It won't hurt him one bit and may help to maintain his positive feeding responses as he grows up. And this way, you're feeding both snakes on the same day. :gj:

Do you have your tubs in a rack, so to feed all you do is slide it out a little, and drop the rat in, or do you have lids?
Since I only have 2 tubs, they both have lids. So the thought of a boa trying to pop its head out has me worried, sense it could potentially snag the hand holding the lid cracked open. lol For example, I am standing in front of the tub, with a rat on the stats in my right hand, and my left hand is lifting the front of the lid up to poke the rat into the tub.
Is this very likely? If so, any suggestions on better ways of opening the tub to feed? I could just be overly worried.

I tried feeding both today, without prescenting the room.
I tried feeding the Boa first, but I didn't feel her take it, so I am leaving the rat in the tub till tomorrow, and will go in to see if she ate it or not.
I'd say I moved the rat around for a minute trying to see if she'd go for it but no go.

She was also being fed on mice, so this could be why she didn't go straight for a rat I'm guessing.

The ball was good.
When I prescented, it was waiting on the rat, you hardly had to start to lower the rat down towards the floor before she would snatch it.
This time it took her maybe 15 seconds to realize a rat was in the tub, and she took it.
I still will double check both tomorrow.
It only takes Assuming they ate it, when they didn't, and you smell something 2 days later, not to do that again.
So now, I always make sure no rat is in the tub the next day. lol

I'll report my findings tomorrow.
Hopefully I won't find a rat in either tub tomorrow!

I would say that it is a possibility of the boa biting your left hand while opening the lid on your tub, but I don't think that it would be very likely. If you are overly concerned about that possibility, why don't you try putting a thick leather glove (like some type of work glove) on your left hand. As long as the rat doesn't come in contact with the glove to put it's scent on it. The glove should block some of your hand's heat signature and severely lessen the chance that your snake would mistake your hand for food. Just a suggestion that might put your mind at ease.

I might do that when she gets bigger. Right now I am not too concerned about a bite since she only weighs 70 grams. It is when she gets bigger, longer, and has more force behind her bite that I am worried. lol

To update from the feeding from yesterday:
Both girls ate their rats.
This makes me especially happy about the boa since I wasn't sure if she would eat a rat since her breeder was feeding her mice.
She didn't take it off the tongs, but apparently just leaving it with her over night allowed her enough time to eat it.
I guess she's a shy eater for now, but this is ok, because I read somewhere that this is not unusual.

Oh I didn't realize she was that small. lol. At 70 grams you probably wouldn't even feel a bite if it happened. I'm glad that they both ate for you. After your boa gets a little size on it I'm sure that her being a "shy eater" won't last long.

Yeah, I just found out from her breeders that she was born August 1. She seems a bit small for being 7 motnhs old, but this is my first boa, what do I know? lol

My new boa is 67 grams and he was born in July of 2013 and I feel the same way you do about the size. I'm so nervous because he's so tiny!

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk

I doubt she'll stay shy for long. Baby boas can be a bit more timid about eating simply because they are small. But she'll grow up and get more confident. :gj:

I have racks with pull-out tubs, but I also have enclosures with sliding glass doors and a few tubs that have lids. I haven't observed any differences in their feeding responses just due to the type of enclosure. With one exception - they seem to lunge out of the tub more readily in the pull-out tubs that are in racks. The slide is a quicker open and they know the rat is ready, so out they come.

When she gets some size... maybe 3 foot or so, I'll start looking in to a better enclosure for the boa.
I saw some at the NARBC last week that had a drop down door which I liked.
But didn't look too hard because of her size now.

The animal plastics T25 looks good, but not sure they have a door that drops down.
The Boaphiles are another I'm looking at for the future, but they're a little more expensive.
I liked the way you could crack the door down just enough to drop food into the cage, while also keeping most of it blocked.
A sliding door, there is a gap from the bottom, all the way up.

These are just my thoughts for now though. lol