Rack vs Glass Tank/Aquarium or else?

Hi!
I have one question - which is the best cage for Ball Pythons? i read "Ball Pythons in captivity" by Kevin McCurley and he show +&- of some cage types, but don't tell which is the best for animal. How do you think? I have some space and my target is +/- 8 adult Ball Pythons. (max 10).
I'm thinking about Rack system or low Glass Tank for them.
Plastic cage is lightest then glass but glass can expose collection... but from practical side - better is glass tank with top with the grid for ventilation? or maybe better is just chink between shelf and tube for good ventilation and stable humidity. I really don't know which choose.
Can you help me with it?
priority for me is health and satisfaction my Ball Pythons.

Any way Rack or Glass tank will by DIY. + sorry for my english

edit:
i start this topic because in my country every one think cage must by like this one:http://www.terrarium.pl/uploads/gall..._420_50992.jpg
but i read it's difficult to disinfect and may harbor bacteria and fungi.


photo from: http://www.terrarium.pl/gallery/image/8581-9/

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Originally Posted by LukSad

Hi!
...my target is +/- 8 adult Ball Pythons. (max 10)...

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Two six-level racks. Having an empty tub or two handy is convenient when one of your BP's makes a huge mess, or when that "max 10" becomes "max 11".

I would definitely go with a rack system. Easiest to maintain for that amount of snakes and going with individual tanks will take up a lot of space. The DIY section of this forum has many different styles of racks that aren't too hard to make after reading through the threads I'm sure you will find a few that could work for you.

Tanks are ok if you have 1 or 2 snakes. Racks are better for a larger number. If you want to display 1 or 2 snakes then use the rack for the rest of them and display your favorites in the 2 glass. Glass tanks take a lot of space, and are harder to keep stable unless you do certain things. I have 2 glass tanks that are almost completely covered in blankets, and the screen tops have foil and saran wrap covering 2/3 of it. I am able to keep them stable like that but I monitor them constantly. I also have to constantly rewet the moss in there to keep humidity up. Its not easy but I'm always at home unless I need to go to a drs appt or shopping. So think about that also. Glass tanks are very bulky also, so you will need a lot of space for 8 snakes. I am thinking of building a rack and display system so I can show off my beautiful girl. She's a normal but still my favorite out of every snake I've seen.

Glass tanks are great for display and ventilation but do not hold heat and humdity well so it can be a struggle to hold those stats depending on regional and home temp and humidity. They can also take up a large amount of room so if you have limited space, this is ill advised route to take.

Racks are a great way to go if you don't care about whether the snakes are on display or not. They hold temp and humidity well and you can house numerous animals in a small amount of space. They also provide small spaces to create a secure home for the animals.

PVC cages are another option. They are similar to the cage you posted a picture of but made of plastic. They are light weight, hold temp and humidity well, and are very good for display purposes if you so desire a setup as such. These are stackable and you can house 2-3 times as many animals in the space(not enclosure) 1 glass tank would take up.


I'd recommend a rack or pvc cage for the direction it sounds like you want to go. Also, I have not heard of enclosures which hold contanimates which would promote bacterial growth. I'd say it would depend on substrate and how clean you keep your enclosures.

When I got started in this hobby (lifestyle?), I was only going to have one Normal Ball Python, and I was going to keep him in a glass fish tank. If memory serves, that lasted about 3 weeks. Humidity and temperature issues forced me to look something else, so I ended up ordering a PVC enclosure from Rich at RBI (he sold them back in those days). Like the AP enclosures we have today, that thing was the bomb diggity and worked like ya' read about. Of course, about that same time, I added a Pastel BP to the family, and had to order another enclosure.... and at somewhere in the $225 price range, at the time, it was about to get real expensive, cause I was already eyeing a little Mojo I wanted to pick up. I ordered my first RBI sweater box rack in the spring of 2009, and haven't used anything else since.

You simply can not beat the ease of maintenance and the simple husbandry they provide for Ball Pythons.

I lasted almost a year on the "tanks only" idea…my parents are even considering a rack these days lol

yeah a rack or pvc cage works better. I have had glass tanks, wooden cages display ) and I went to racks ( wooden at the time cause I could not afford the nicer pvc racks. but my rack(s) were design to keep the lids of the tub to them too( this help hold humidity in and prevent escapes and mold that would of happen without a lid). But this was also about the time I went from like 5 snakes to over 20 in a single summer with all the rescues I did back then.

I think tanks are good for 1 or 2 snakes. But, they take up a lot of room compared to a rack.

The best type of cage your balls can have is a plastic pvc cage in my opinion. However any more then a few animals and you're gonna want a rack. Im not really a huge fan of racks unless you NEED to house a lot of animals in a small space. But everyone wants a million BPs, so a rack is probably your best bet.

I keep my balls in 4x2x1 Boaphile pvcs, but i dont breed and im not really planning on it

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Originally Posted by CryHavoc17

The best type of cage your balls can have is a plastic pvc cage in my opinion.

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The best kind of housing your snakes can have is the one that works best for you, is easily maintained, and holds the proper conditions for your animals. Glass fronts, plastic plants and primate skulls are eye candy for you...your snake could care less.

oh, from Poland? i had many awesome vacations there, sailing in the masurian lake district. really beautiful nature, especially in the areas of the lakes where fuel-driven engines are banned, and you can only sail there, swim there, or use an electric powered boat.

i think racks are the easiest, but in Germany we have minimum keeping requirements for many species, including ball pythons. since you do not need to register BPs, noone will check, but still, laws are in place. they require a certain enclosure size (height, depth, and width), a hotspot, an opportunity to climb a bit, two hides, and minimum/maximum temperature and humidity. and some other stuff i cannot recall of the top of my head.

and i think these laws are in place in most EU nations and they are similar. so you need to check if you have minimum keeping requirements for ball pythons in your laws. and if you have, then a rack system wont work, breeders in Germany work with modular terrariums. its a huge thick brick of plastic, with a front window, insulation on all sides, and it exactly follows the minimum keeping requirements. with enough space to put in a branch to climb on and two nice hides and stuff. these can be stacked and they are fairly easy to maintain. still much larger than a rack system. for hatchlings or males, at least in Germany you can do that with a rack, so you need modular terrariums only for adult breeder females. stackable modular terrariums have the size shown in your picture, but they only have glass in the front, all other sides are thick and sturdy plastic stuff, with good insulation. but the dimensions in your picture are about right, that seems to match the minimum requirements we have over here in Germany.

check the local laws in Poland, i guess there is a 90% chance that you do have minimum requirements for the enclosure on the books. and if that is the case, you need to follow them. and then racks are no longer practical and you need a good modular terrarium system.

keep us in the loop, i would like to hear what your laws are regarding this. BTW we can freely move ball pythons all across europe, no restrictions there.

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Originally Posted by Slim

The best kind of housing your snakes can have is the one that works best for you, is easily maintained, and holds the proper conditions for your animals. Glass fronts, plastic plants and primate skulls are eye candy for you...your snake could care less.

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IIRC I didnt say anything about plants or skulls.

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Originally Posted by CryHavoc17

IIRC I didnt say anything about plants or skulls.

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I'm quite well aware of that, but you did say that in your opinion, PVC enclosures were the best. And most people want to keep those types of cages so they can display them...the plants and skulls are a natural follow on ;)

I think racks are better for the snake as they hold heat and humidity better. Also balls like to be hid away in smallish areas, so racks are better at offering that. If they are given to much space or don't feel secure they don't do as well.

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Originally Posted by Jay Mechtly

I think racks are better for the snake as they hold heat and humidity better. Also balls like to be hid away in smallish areas, so racks are better at offering that. If they are given to much space or don't feel secure they don't do as well.

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I don't agree with this whatsoever. My snakes come out at night and explore. They climb their trees and crawl around. Just because you give your snakes some space doesn't mean they'll feel insecure. You just have to provide them with their necessities and they'll choose what they'll do with it.

I feel like racks are great for breeders who need to save space. However, in my opinion, racks provide the bare necessity.

Personally, I like PVC enclosures. Once set up properly, they're easy to keep the necessary temps and humidity while giving your BP some room to explore and strech out.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jay Mechtly

I think racks are better for the snake as they hold heat and humidity better. Also balls like to be hid away in smallish areas, so racks are better at offering that. If they are given to much space or don't feel secure they don't do as well.

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not true, in the wild, or in a semi-domesticated state, they may crawl a mile in one night. they like to hide during the day, but when its dark they like to move. its obvious that if you provide them with more, they will like it. they are quite good at climbing, and they are excellent swimmers.

I feel like people use the "space = insecure BP" line to justify stuffing as many snakes in racks without feeling bad. I get why breeders use racks. Obviously, it makes sense financially but for people who have them as pets, I just don't get it.

I understand BPs like tight spaces to feel secure but they also like to explore.

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Thanks a lot for this discussion

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

yeah a rack or pvc cage works better.[...] but my rack(s) were design to keep the lids of the tub to them too( this help hold humidity in and prevent escapes and mold that would of happen without a lid).[...]

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So you use box with lid in rack? Do you have some picture of that solution?

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

oh, from Poland? [...] i think racks are the easiest, but in Germany we have minimum keeping requirements for many species, including ball pythons. since you do not need to register BPs, noone will check, but still, laws are in place. they require a certain enclosure size (height, depth, and width), a hotspot, an opportunity to climb a bit, two hides, and minimum/maximum temperature and humidity. and some other stuff i cannot recall of the top of my head. [...] keep us in the loop, i would like to hear what your laws are regarding this. BTW we can freely move ball pythons all across europe, no restrictions there.

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I don't find any information about minimum keeping requirements in Poland but we must register our BP.

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Originally Posted by Misha

I don't agree with this whatsoever. My snakes come out at night and explore. They climb their trees and crawl around. Just because you give your snakes some space doesn't mean they'll feel insecure. You just have to provide them with their necessities and they'll choose what they'll do with it.[...]

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I agree they explore in night - actually i have two BP in small glass cage (CB2013) and i can see they activity.

There is one problem - I don't have PCV cages in my country... i like saying "Poland is a Mexico of Europe" becouse we are far away then Germany, Great Britain, USA etc. Our market of Exotic animals is extremely tiny.

But like i write on top my priority is they feel good in captivity.

i thinking about Rack with "SAMLA" tubs (Width: 30 ¾ " Depth: 22 " Height: 7 ") tubs like V70 etc must be imported so "SAMLA" is easiest to find solution it give space recommended by McCurley. [it will be use for adult BP - you smaller i will just put in tub "partition" (barrier?) to make it smaller and it will be grow with snake. what do you think about it?

I'm not going to throw all tank/PVC Cage owners under the same blanket, but let me tell you what I have seen far too often. People who are newer to the hobby want to have something they can display, so most start out with some kind of tank set up. Then the ones who really do care about good husbandry, move to PVC enclosures because at least you can hold decent temps and humidity in one. At this point, because they really want something to display, and since the Ball Python is a fairly poor display snake, they start to jazz up the cage with stuff like climbing branches and all other manor of objects that are interesting to look at. And while all of these things are not particularly harmful to your Ball Python, they do require a level of maintenance that is above and beyond that required of a tub and rack system.

Not a problem you say..."I sterilize everything in my snakes cage on a regular basis", you say..."I don't mind spending the extra time", you say... Well, I say good for you, and I hope you keep that same attitude for the life of your animal. I have no doubt that many of you will.

HOWEVER

We see a lot of newer owners coming on this Forum with both guns blazing about what they want their cages to look like, and how well they will always maintain it, only to watch that enthusiasm wane over time. They start taking short cuts with the cleaning and cage maintenance...life happens and they don't have the same amount of time to dedicate to sterilizing plastic plants and fake skulls. So, cleaning starts to fall behind, and it's human nature that once it starts to lag, catching up on it is very difficult.

The bottom line for me is that tubs and racks are easy to heat, easy to clean, and my animals have never shown any signs of being stressed out about not having a stick climb on. I'm not a breeder, nor do I want to be, but I do want to always be consistent in my husbandry, because the animals deserve that. Next week, next year, and 15 years from now.

in Poland we have phrase "every stick has two ends" and it look like correct here.
From one hand Rack system give stability of temperature and humidity plus is easier to clean so it's mean better conditions for snake but from other hand it don't give him a lot of space to explore and "travel".
In PCV cage we can try make similar condition like in nature environment but... in natural environment they don't live on newspapers or some substratum we can buy in shop. So we have to compromise in my opinion which will be best for animal. I can't buy PCV cage now, like i told before (maybe in future it will be more popular in Poland and i will can go to shop and buy them to change all of my cages) so i must build a rack (or maybe any one have better solution?)- do you think "growing tube" is good solution?* And use SAMLA boxes (now i use one of them [smaller one] to wash my BP)?

*- if i remove barrier for night they can explore more space and it maybe can be call "compromise" for smaller rack system.