Off food... assist feeding?

We adopted a normal female BP. She is just shy of 4 ft and has produced clutches in the past according to the previous owner. Was told that she's been off food for @ 6 mos. now. She has refused both live mice and live rats for me. I was recommend to offer small so I tried to tempt her with a rat pinky hoping to slip larger food in behind it. She is all the way down to 800 grams now. It makes me wonder... has she really lost that much weight or did they breed her too young? She has shed recently and appears healthy otherwise but she is visibly under weight. Ultimately the question is, when should I start worrying and start considering assist feeding?

I do consider 6 months a fairly significant hunger strike, but Ball Pythons have been known to go twice that long. How much weight has she lost since coming into your care? It's important to remember that assist feeding, while not as traumatic as force feeding, is still pretty stressful on both snake and owner. If it were my animal, I think I would continue to pull my hair out, and wait a little longer. These little critters can certainly be frustrating some times.

What is her body condition? Is she more round or triangular? And to what degree?

I have a '12 rescue pastel girl who came to me at only 310g in November... is now 740g and still skinny who has decided to fast so I will be trying live today. These snakes can be frustrating!

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Originally Posted by glassslipper

She is all the way down to 800 grams now. It makes me wonder... has she really lost that much weight or did they breed her too young?

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What was her weight when you got her? The only advice we can give comes from what you tell us, so details are key...I'd still say waiting it out would be the wise choice.

Can't say if she was bred too young but, I've had females get "stuck" around 1,200 grams, and they were fine breeders that after laying clutches were in the 800+/- gram range....However, these girls of mine started eating immediately after laying and nearly doubled in size by the following year.

She really hasn't changed in my posession but I've only had her a few weeks. She is very supple and triangular in shape but has had a shed and her scales look good. she behaves normally and seems to enjoy attention when she gets it.

Could you post a pic of her? That would really help us in assessing her condition.

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Originally Posted by glassslipper

We adopted a normal female BP. She is just shy of 4 ft and has produced clutches in the past according to the previous owner. Was told that she's been off food for @ 6 mos. now. She has refused both live mice and live rats for me. I was recommend to offer small so I tried to tempt her with a rat pinky hoping to slip larger food in behind it. She is all the way down to 800 grams now. It makes me wonder... has she really lost that much weight or did they breed her too young? She has shed recently and appears healthy otherwise but she is visibly under weight. Ultimately the question is, when should I start worrying and start considering assist feeding?

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Short answer NO you do not assist an animal off food, assisting is for hatchlings that NEVER took a meal on their own or animal on death's door.

Do you know when the last clutch was laid and whether or not that female resumed feeding after laying.

She knows how to eat so right now it's about making sure your husbandry is optimal (proper enclosure, temps, humidity etc), low stress (NO handling unless it is for cage maintenance) you may even wan to consider downsizing the enclosure (I have had trouble feeders that sized switch to 15 quarts tubs in the past) and more importantly it is about patience.

As food goes offering a rat pink to a 4 ft snake will not accomplish anything (it will not likely be recognized as a prey item), you need to offer a small rat (around 4 weeks old) and see how it goes.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/102461/...bNVT4PfzAt.jpg

Check your humidity and temperatures. What are you keeping her in? Do not assist feed.

only force feed as a last resort. As long as she seems healthy, hold off.

i'm with the others about waiting for her to feed on her own. and once it does eat, offer food at longer intervals, it is tempting to take advantage of a positive feeding resonse and gain weight quickly by feeding often, but it will be easier on her digestive tract if you feed very seldom at first since her stomach is not used anymore to having a full load......one month interval between two first two feedings, then three weeks, and so on until you are down to regular weekly schedule.

i do not know if this has scientific basis for snakes, but this is the advice i got from a vet when i adopted an adult male ball that was fed a small mouse every two months (previous owner thought snakes only needed to eat once a year, so he actually thought his twice a month schedule was more than ideal).....lucky for me its feeding response was terrific, but vet advised me to slow down on the feeding until the snake's stomach has adapted to more food.

I've been assist feeding a butter male for several months now, and let me tell you, it is not fun. In my case I have to because by the time I got him be was 43 grams, and I've been trying everything i can to get him to eat and he won't. Now through assist feeding he is now 75 grams. I would try live first if I was you.

Try feeding live to get her feeding response going. Also rat pinkies are way too small. It's like feeding a great dane a piece of lettuce. It's nothing to them. It might as well be part of the substrate. Feed a small small rat (like a 4 to 5 wk old). That will be considered prey. Just keep trying after she gets comfortable. Also if she just layed a clutch right before you got her you might want to give her a "bath". Let her soak I warm water then rub her with a washcloth. That way you get the egg smell off her. I wish you all the luck with her.

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Originally Posted by Phantomtip

Try feeding live to get her feeding response going. Also rat pinkies are way too small. It's like feeding a great dane a piece of lettuce. It's nothing to them. It might as well be part of the substrate. Feed a small small rat (like a 4 to 5 wk old). That will be considered prey. Just keep trying after she gets comfortable. Also if she just layed a clutch right before you got her you might want to give her a "bath". Let her soak I warm water then rub her with a washcloth. That way you get the egg smell off her. I wish you all the luck with her.

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She laid late last summer and pretty much hadn't eaten since she laid I gather... I'll try the bath tip. Everything I have presented had been love because he did say she was picky before and only ate live. I guess this will be a great exercise in patience and good husbandry experience for me.

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Originally Posted by J.P.

vet advised me to slow down on the feeding until the snake's stomach has adapted to more food.

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:crazy: Sounds like some voodoo magic pseudo veterinary medicine to me... Might be looking for a new vet if it were me.

UPDATE!!!!! Moved her to a smaller enclosure early this morning (from a 28qt to a 17qt). Acquired a gerbil, as no ASF's were to be found. I waited until bedtime, introduced the gerbil and left it while monitoring. after about 5 minutes of eyeballing it she sealed the deal. I certainly feel much better now that I have seen her eat. Thanks for all of the input!

WHY did you feed her a gerbil????? Don't know who gave you that nugget of wisdom, but they certainly did you no favors. A simple search on this Forum using the key word gerbil would have yielded several pages of good advice with regards to feeding gerbils. SMH

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Originally Posted by Slim

WHY did you feed her a gerbil????? Don't know who gave you that nugget of wisdom, but they certainly did you no favors. A simple search on this Forum using the key word gerbil would have yielded several pages of good advice with regards to feeding gerbils. SMH

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I had two local breeders tell me to try ASF but if I couldn't find any to try a gerbil. Chad Gray was one of them. I took it as good advice as he is a very accomplished breeder. I take it this is a bad idea? I'll look into it more on the forum when I am home at the pc.

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Originally Posted by glassslipper

I took it as good advice as he is a very accomplished breeder. I take it this is a bad idea? I'll look into it more on the forum when I am home at the pc.

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I'm not gonna' tell you it's a bad idea, but it sure isn't a great idea. Your snake is in no danger of starving to death at this time...not even close. Now you have very likely multiplied your problems.

Being an accomplished breeder is in the eye of the beholder...Just because someone keeps and breeds snakes, it does not make them an expert (especially in the BP business where every 13 year old on YouTube is a breeder), and it does not mean they have experience with all aspects of BP husbandry. And, I throw myself under that same bus. Neither I, nor anyone else here is the Oracle. Learning to do your own research is the most important skill you will ever develop.

Did your breeder friend tell you any of the following?

BPs have a very bad habit of imprinting on gerbils once they've been given one. Sometimes they will NOT switch back to ANYTHING else. So here are the risk factors you bring on yourself when you feed gerbils:

1) If your snake is now a gerbil crack addict (yes, it can happen after only one, just like heroine), you will need to feed it gerbils for the rest of ever. Not a problem you say? Cool. Not sure how much gerbils sell for in your neck of the cosmos, but in mine, feeding gerbils is a very expensive proposition.

2) Gerbils can be aggressive and the adults have very sharp teeth. Even supervised feedings are more of a risk with gerbils.

3) Lets say your snake, who has been on a fast, refuses to eat a rat next time...and the time after that...and the time after that. Now you've compounded your troubleshooting because now you don't know if it's just a continuation of her fast, or if she will now only eat gerbils. So she skips rats a few times, and you give in and go buy another gerbil...the cycle just gets worse from there.

If your breeder buddy didn't enlighten you to the risks involved with feeding gerbils, then he did you no favors. Every piece of advice has two sides. Your job, as your animal's keeper, is to find out what those sides are with every piece of advice you seek, and them make informed decisions about your animal's care.

I'm chiming in so the OP isn't sitting their chewing fingers to the bone thinking the BP is screwed up for life.

I fully agree with Slim's points on gerbils and am adding a few points of my own:

1. Gerbils and Hamsters are considered "fatty" compared to rats and mice and are frowned upon with feeding to a snake for reasons previously stated.

2. It may not be the end of the world, it is possible if the snake is hooked on gerbils to bring it back via scenting a rat or mouse with a gerbil.

3. Story- My sister's BP which is now in my possesion ate gerbils for the first 2 years of its life. She said they tried mice and rats and the snake wouldn't even look at them. I take possession of the snake and waited 2 weeks to feed the snake. First thing I offered was a small-medium sized rat which it wrapped right up but let go after 5-10 seconds either cause I spooked the snake or because the rat was too big/strong at the time. I proceeded to feed it mice for the next month, each time it took at least 3 mice without a problem. Then switched to small rats. The snake did not have an issue with switching in my case. Every snake and situation is different, I probably am lucky to have a BP which switched without a hitch.

4. Patience. You must learn patience. These snakes can and will put you on edge and rattle your nerves. One of my BPs stops eating in October and will probably start eating again next month. He(assuming it's male) is following the same pattern as 2 of my colubrids. It was very frustrating when he did this last year cause I didn't expect it. If he doesn't start to eat, then I know a change will need to be made.

5. As the snake has now eaten for you, I'd recommend the next feeding be a small rat or an ASF. If anyone has a better recommendation, Pleas override this suggestion.

Thanks! I'll know better from here on out. He's been the go to guy for green tree pythons in our area for over 15 years and does balls as well. Since he's been around a while I never thought to second guess him or research what he recommended... hopefully future feedings will work out ok without gerbils... sure hope I didn't crack my snake out.