A question about size and temperament differences (Morph BCI / BCA)

Hello all,
I'm back with yet another boa question... I was looking on another boa-specific forum and the folks there suggested that I consider looking into male morph BCIs and also BCAs as an alternative to just looking at the smaller locality boas (tarahumara, hog island, etc.).

I know that BCIs have a huge range in size, but is there a general rule of thumb with morphs (i.e. they tend to be smaller, larger, etc. than your standard BCI)? Since staying smaller (pref. male 6' or less) is important to me, what would I need to ask the breeder to determine how big a baby might get (i.e. should I ask what local the morphs are based in, what length / how old the parents are, etc.)?

Also, if you have any feedback on temperament / size of BCAs vs. BCIs, that would be great too... I have heard that they are more relaxed and generally stay smaller (under 6'), but I would welcome any additional information you could give me. I know they don't have a range of morphs like BCIs, but the ones I've seen pics of look great, and if they really are more "laid back" that would appeal to me as well.

Thank you, as always, for your time and sharing your advice! :)

Hi there,

Those are some good questions, and let me start by saying "IN GENERAL" almost all BCI's have a nice docile temperament. Notice the "in general" part. You will have some that have an edge and some that are docile 99% of the time and have a bad day just like we do. If the snake is not being defensive and showing a threat display, any other type of bite is an accidental feeding response where you made the mistake.

Boas make great pets because they are pretty even tempered and yet are still curious and active. They are completely different from Royal pythons, yet maintain a decent level of predictability once you learn/know your snake.

As for the size of morphs; Well, that is a loaded question. There are so many you can't possibly categorize a general size for them. They have influences from smaller Central American boas in them, some morphs, though not many have BCC in them. Obviously the CA influenced boas would be the smaller morphs but there are also huge albino BCI's.

All of that said, you will be just fine with a male Colombian BCI. Anything over 6 feet is quite rare for a properly raised male BCI.

Here is a tidbit of info. Kali, (Evenstar) helped me get into the boa scene, she is a great resource and also has a load of morphs and common BCI's. When speaking with her, she recommended I get a male BCI, but quickly told me, the snake grows with you when you get a young one, meaning you don't suddenly feel like you have a huge animal when it's larger because you get used to it as it grows.

After getting my male, I sometimes wish I'd have gotten a female because I love the size of the bigger boas. You can certainly assist a male into a larger size safely, if you are never going to breed it and it is not ever around female boas to react to scents and signals for breeding, but it will not attain the size of a female in most cases.

Safe bet for the male BCI 5-6 feet. 7 feet would be huge, and the girth is normally less than the female. Sexual dimorphism is pretty common.

I don't have a lot of experience with BCA's but the info I have from the Vincent Russo book, states they are usually shorter, but are thicker in girth. The BCA's are sometimes referred to a short tailed boas. They are becoming a bit more mainstream now and seem to "keep" easily from the reading I've done.

Boas are fantastic snakes and you will enjoy one. Just make sure you have the proper setup and EVERYTHING, caging, thermostat, heat source, and vet care taken care of and researched before you buy. Use a trusted breeder, ask about the genetics and background of the parents. Follow the breeder's advice and you'll be good to go.

This photo is a little older, but here is a male Barranquilla, Colombian BCI.

He is currently 4' 7" and 20 months old. He may hit 5 feet a little after he is 2 years, but his growth has slowed for the season, and his girth is not much. He is lean. Even at his current size I can easily handle him in 1 hand.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00777.jpg

Gio- Thank you so much for your advice and the great pic! Your boa is gorgeous, I love the colors and good pattern contrast.

- Based on your advice, I will look for morphs that list ca / Colombian parentage and watch out for those containing BCC in their background.

Are there specific morphs that always contain BCC (i.e. a certain line or pattern morph developed with them)?

I will look for the vin russo book you mentioned. I have heard others talk about it, so it must be a good resource to have on hand.

thanks again for your help!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

Gio- Thank you so much for your advice and the great pic! Your boa is gorgeous, I love the colors and good pattern contrast.

- Based on your advice, I will look for morphs that list ca / Colombian parentage and watch out for those containing BCC in their background.

Are there specific morphs that always contain BCC (i.e. a certain line or pattern morph developed with them)?

I will look for the vin russo book you mentioned. I have heard others talk about it, so it must be a good resource to have on hand.

thanks again for your help!

---

THE COMPLETE BOA CONSTRICTOR.

That's the book. You will not find many BCC morphs. Most BCC breeders are are purists and won't cross into anything but the same locality.

If you are set on morphs, check with Kali, she has all kinds and knows a lot about them. There are also non-morph localities. Mexican boas, the island boas, Nicaraguan boas, boas from Panama all are typically smaller than the "common" Colombian BCI.

Note, some of the smaller boas will actually be smaller girth/wise than a full grown ball python and not a lot longer. Keep that in mind if you want something a little larger.

I'd highly recommend going to see some boas if you can. Hold some adults and some younger snakes.

I remember the first time I held a boa and the nervous feeling I had. I was used to our royal python wanting to go toward the floor and away from me. The boa was wrapping my arm tightly and heading up toward my head and face to say hello. It's funny to think I was sweating and expecting to get tagged LOL!

I think unless you are set on a morph and some particular pattern, you'd do just fine with a Colombian BCI male.

Check out Perfect Predators web page. I know Kali has a few cool morphs from them.

Don't worry much about any morph with BCC in it. It's very uncommon and breeders make it a point of telling you there is BCC involved if there is any. At least honest ones do.

Thanks for the nice comments on the snake.

I don't have any recent pictures, but Colombian boas are quite pretty IMO.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00372.jpg

Well said, Gio!! Well said indeed. You've learned a LOT!! lol.... :gj:


I really don't know what else I can add at this point. Gio has put you on the right path. "The Complete Boa Constrictor" is a fabulous resource, but it is not easy to find. It is still available off Vin's website though. http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/books.html Keep in mind, it's expensive. But it is WELL worth it!!


Here's a pic of my own Sao Paulo BCA from Vin....

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6588cbb0.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Evenstar

Well said, Gio!! Well said indeed. You've learned a LOT!! lol.... :gj:


I really don't know what else I can add at this point. Gio has put you on the right path. "The Complete Boa Constrictor" is a fabulous resource, but it is not easy to find. It is still available off Vin's website though. http://www.cuttingedgeherp.com/books.html Keep in mind, it's expensive. But it is WELL worth it!!


Here's a pic of my own Sao Paulo BCA from Vin....

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6588cbb0.jpg

---

Wow that does not look like that short of a tail at all LOL! Are their tails that much shorter or is that a myth? What a beauty!!

They have the coolest heads. Great, powerful shape!

Go BCA!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Wow that does not look like that short of a tail at all LOL! Are their tails that much shorter or is that a myth? What a beauty!!

They have the coolest heads. Great, powerful shape!

Go BCA!!!

---

Technically speaking, their tails are shorter than the common boas' by, oh say, 2 scales or something trivial like that. Hence the name "short-tailed" boas. They aren't really known by that so much anymore though. I think some do look like they have short tails because the saddle pattern doesn't carry up the tail like on other boas. Basically, they have the red and white banding right at the end, but it stops there. The body saddle pattern goes all the way to the cloaca and sometimes beyond instead of the other way around. Just my opinion though.

I really like this guy and I can't wait to pick up a female from Vin this year. I hope he goes back to Tinley in October. He's got some really nice stuff, including some Barranquilla! ;)

Beautiful snake evenstar! I saw the book on Amazon.. I think used it is about $50.

I am really leaning towards a BCA or a non-albino / non- motley BCI. I really love the intensity of colors and clear patterns on normal BCIs, but I also like the "peaked" / jagged pattern on the BCAs a breeder posted pics of. So hard to decide.

My main issue now, is deciding if I want to buy from the breeder with just a few BCA babies at the moment, or wait until he has BCI babies in the summer, or look for animals from a different breeder altogether.

One more question for you guys with BCI / BCA experience. Can you tell how light the background / good the contrast is when the boa is a baby? Is "what you see what you get" in terms of color range / pattern even in babies? Gi0- what I love most about your boa is the range of different browns / oranges in his pattern and the black / dark edging. Was the pattern this way when he was small?

Thank you again for your input!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

Beautiful snake evenstar! I saw the book on Amazon.. I think used it is about $50.

I am really leaning towards a BCA or a non-albino / non- motley BCI. I really love the intensity of colors and clear patterns on normal BCIs, but I also like the "peaked" / jagged pattern on the BCAs a breeder posted pics of. So hard to decide.

My main issue now, is deciding if I want to buy from the breeder with just a few BCA babies at the moment, or wait until he has BCI babies in the summer, or look for animals from a different breeder altogether.

One more question for you guys with BCI / BCA experience. Can you tell how light the background / good the contrast is when the boa is a baby? Is "what you see what you get" in terms of color range / pattern even in babies? Gi0- what I love most about your boa is the range of different browns / oranges in his pattern and the black / dark edging. Was the pattern this way when he was small?

Thank you again for your input!

---

This is a younger pic.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/IMG_5268.jpg

The tail on BCI's is usually more red when they are young. They are not true red tails, but this particular locality is what Vin Russo says is an example of what the perfect cross between a BCI and a BCC would look like. The Barranquilla boa scale counts are different from other Colombian BCI's, according to the book.

You can get a boa like this from Legacy Reptiles. They have a lot of the Rio Bravo Reptiles stock. Gus Rentfro of Rio Bravo IS the authority on BC's. In simple terms he is a boa GOD!

This is a picture that was maybe 2 months ago. You can see the colors hold. Maybe even better but the tail does go more orange/brown.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00764.jpg

You should visit the Legacy Reptiles Facebook page and see what they have.

They do localities mostly, but also have morphs. They are top notch and one of the owners, Orlando, is a veterinarian that specializes in avian care.

Male BCI will be perfect for you.

I highly recommend going through a reputable breeder whether you choose a BCA or BCI, but especially for a BCA. Amarali are harder to find and you'll want a pure locality. It is much easier to find a nice BCI, but well worth the trouble for a quality BCA. :gj:

The babies look different from adults. What you see is not generally what you'll get in an adult. Baby colors are usually much brighter with more contrast than adults. You've seen the pic of my Sao Paulo baby above. Here are pics of his parents....

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2b0dd9fa.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9ac63745.jpg

You can see how much darker they are from my baby. My baby still has a silver overtone and his tail saddles are still dark red. The silver changes to a more pewter/charcoal color and the red gives way to a more black appearance. This is typical of BCA. And the Sao Paulo are a particularly dark locality. The South Brazilians and Bolivians are lighter as adults.

Colombian BCI colors usually behave similarly, however, since they are generally lighter and more colorful than BCA, the adults are usually a bit more colorful too:

This is a baby normal Cherry Pastel BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1bd15788.jpg

This is her father, an adult male normal Cherry Pastel BCI
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps186bb633.jpg

And, while I don't have a baby pic to compare with her, here is my adult female het leopard. You can see how colorful she still is.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps922eb108.jpg

It's important to note that these BCI pictured are morphs. They are not "normal wild type". The Cherry Pastel gene and the leopard gene affect color and pattern even in an otherwise "normal" BCI. But I think you should be able to see my point. ;)

** What breeder were you considering for a BCA?? In my personal opinion, the only 2 I would work with (for BCA) are Vin Russo and Legacy Reptiles.....

Those are ALL beautiful snakes Kali!

Great examples for the poster to view.

Thank you both so much for your time and help! The pics are georgous!
Kali- I will pm you with the breeder's info.

I will look into the breeders you guys mentioned and see what they have. I think I have succeeded in convincing my husband that a boa would be a better next addition to our collection than a BP, so we will probably be looking to buy sometime between now and summer.

I definately don't want to blow the bank on an expensive morph... at least not yet... That said, this may be the only boa I add to my collection, so I want to get a very nice looking individual and not suffer from buyer's regret.

Do any of the more affordable morphs or specific localities (other than the locality you mentioned your BCI was Gio) tend to have better contrast / lighter backgrounds as adults? I've seen pics of hypos and pastels and it's hard to tell if they look any better than normals (of course, most are baby pics).

Thank you again for all of your help and advice!

Gio- I looked on legacy reptiles FB page and was super impressed with some of their snakes. They did post a male of the same morph as yours for sale for $240... Not bad.

I may contact them if I don't go with the other breeder. I'm sure they have more available animals than they post on their FB page.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

Thank you both so much for your time and help! The pics are georgous!
Kali- I will pm you with the breeder's info.

I will look into the breeders you guys mentioned and see what they have. I think I have succeeded in convincing my husband that a boa would be a better next addition to our collection than a BP, so we will probably be looking to buy sometime between now and summer.

I definately don't want to blow the bank on an expensive morph... at least not yet... That said, this may be the only boa I add to my collection, so I want to get a very nice looking individual and not suffer from buyer's regret.

Do any of the more affordable morphs or specific localities (other than the locality you mentioned your BCI was Gio) tend to have better contrast / lighter backgrounds as adults? I've seen pics of hypos and pastels and it's hard to tell if they look any better than normals (of course, most are baby pics).

Thank you again for all of your help and advice!

---

You will NOT be sorry with a boa!! They are so much more fun than BPs! But be warned - they are like potato chips. Betcha can't have just one.... :D

Jungles are very nice - not quite as colorful as babies and they get lovely golden and pink as adults. A Jungle without any other gene at play is usually quite reasonable. Allison Preske, UAN Constrictors on Facebook, will be having a very nice litter of jungles this season. She is very nice. This is a 2011 male I got from her last year. He is beginning to show more adult colors now.

Pic in 2012.......
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps68cabe70.jpg

And a pic from last week........
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps670b1a5c.jpg

Sorry that last pic is pretty washed out. I am no photographer....

But you should see his belly - so pink it looks like he dragged himself through raspberry sauce. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

Gio- I looked on legacy reptiles FB page and was super impressed with some of their snakes. They did post a male of the same morph as yours for sale for $240... Not bad.

I may contact them if I don't go with the other breeder. I'm sure they have more available animals than they post on their FB page.

---

Hi, mine is not a morph. The Barranquilla is a locality in Colombia. Believe it or not he is I guess, a "common" boa, but not really.

You can look at Hog Island boas too, and if you have a slightly daring side, you could look at a male BCC. They are just beautiful, but tend to get a little larger, that said, the colors and contrast are amazing.

I personally would not spend huge money on any morph. Kali seems to have a good connection and gets her stuff at reasonable prices.

If you are just starting your search, really, really prepare yourself with caging, heating and all the stuff. The cage stuff is a lot of fun!! I think you'd be surprised how unthreatened you'll feel by a larger snake. An 8 foot female Colombian boa is considered large. But in reality it's not that big. A 6-7 foot male is normally less massive and much lighter.

I suggest you pick your snake well if it will be your only snake. Really get what you want and love it. $100-$300 is plenty of money to get a quality boa IMO.

Here is the difference between a Royal and a BCI. The python is a female (2yrs) and is a year older than the boa (1yr). The BP is my son's, and the male boa is mine. Look at the colors in the sun on the boa. Not a morph, just that pretty!

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00707.jpg

Having a nice display cage that is also tailored to your boa's needs is not only healthy for the snake, but really pleasing for you and others to look at.

If you do everything right from preparation to animal purchase, I think you'll be rewarded with the perfect pet.

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00734.jpg

And BTW Kali,, another set of beauties there!!

Beautiful pics!

You're definitely right..After all the great pics and info you guys have posted, I think I now want at least 3 boas, a jungle, a Barranquilla , and a BCA. :P That cherry pastel looked insanely gorgeous too! Unfortunately, my husband isn't a herper and although he prefers the snakes to my geckos, he still doesn't quit understand how you tend to want to "collect" them and not just settle for one of this species, one of that, etc.

When we move (beginning to look for a house soon), I'll get a reptile room and rat breeding colony setup and hopefully, with more space and food on hand, I'll be able to purchase more snakes. It'll also help if the boa is super friendly and feeds well, this might even make my husband decide HE wants another one. Although I like our KSBs and hognose, neither are what I'd consider my "perfect" snake behavior, looks, or size-wise. We have also had serious feeding issues with the hognose, which makes me hesitant to invest a lot of money in an animal I am unfamiliar with.

Thank you once again for the great pics and advice!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by artgecko

That said, this may be the only boa I add to my collection, so I want to get a very nice looking individual and not suffer from buyer's regret.

---

If you manage to stay at just one Boa you have far more will power than I.
I did the same getting just one as a pet only to have it quickly tie Carpets for my favourite constrictor snakes. And, now I already have 2 ETB's on order (no exactly comparable I know) and am trying to get a few more BCL's in from Europe while eyeing the stunning Suri's at Nagy's and keeping an ear to the ground for either of the Peruvian BCC.

Edit: Okay, I didn't see the post above before I started typing. Thank you so much for not making me feel extremely weak willed, lol.

Heh.. No, I totally understand. I just got into snakes last summer and already have 3, soon to be 4. *Ideally* I see myself with a rack for my KSBs, a rack with BPs, about 4 cages for boa constrictors, and maybe a couple odd snakes out like a BRB and carpet... But who knows. It'll probably depend on how much room the house we buy has and how "house poor" we'll be. We don't have kids yet either and I know that can be a serious time and money drain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raven01

I did the same getting just one as a pet only to have it quickly tie Carpets for my favourite constrictor snakes. And, now I already have 2 ETB's on order (no exactly comparable I know) and am trying to get a few more BCL's in from Europe while eyeing the stunning Suri's at Nagy's and keeping an ear to the ground for either of the Peruvian BCC.

---

Well, if that doesn't just about sum up everything I'd like to own as well LOL! Having a royal and my favorite BCI, I would love a carpet python, and probably my favorite snake would be an Iquitos Peruvian BCC.

If retics stopped growing at 9 feet I'd take one of those and an olive python as well.

My wife isn't into the scene but is tolerant of my behavior. 1 BP and 1 BC is about all that is going to happen here. I'm glad I got the boa I got, although not fearing size any longer, I'd have maybe gone for the Peruvian BCC right off. None the less, I'm pretty happy!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gio

Well, if that doesn't just about sum up everything I'd like to own as well LOL! Having a royal and my favorite BCI, I would love a carpet python, and probably my favorite snake would be an Iquitos Peruvian BCC.

If retics stopped growing at 9 feet I'd take one of those and an olive python as well.

My wife isn't into the scene but is tolerant of my behavior. 1 BP and 1 BC is about all that is going to happen here. I'm glad I got the boa I got, although not fearing size any longer, I'd have maybe gone for the Peruvian BCC right off. None the less, I'm pretty happy!

---

And I'd give my eye teeth for one of Legacy's holdback quality Belem Brazilian BCC..... :P

I'm a little scared to list what I want one day, but here goes.

Boelens Python
Black Head Python
Aru Green Tree Python

Eastern Indigo
Mexican Red Tailed Indigo
Mussurana
False Water Cobra
various milks and king snakes

Belem Brazilian BCC
Northern Brazilian BCC
Surinamese BCC
purple Guyana BCC
patternless South Brazilian BCA

....and far too many BCI morphs to list. lol. :D