Tub size for "dwarf" boa localities?

Hey folks,

I'm debating on whether a dwarf boa (i.e. hog island or otherwise) will be the next addition to my collection or not (also considering BPs). I'm still in the research phase and was wondering what kind of tub-type housing could be used for a small locality boa (either a male hog island or male/female of one of the smaller localities)? I know that large plastic caging is recommended for the larger boas, but was unsure on what works for the smaller localities.

I plan on eventually getting a rack setup to use for my KSBs and one for BPs, but for now, my housing options are limited to an individual rubbermaid type tub setup or a glass tank.

Any input your have would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your time and help!

I think it's important to point out at this point that there really is no such thing as a "dwarf" boa as far as it refers to a specific species or sub-species. There are many boas that are smaller than the average and a few that are significantly smaller. But that doesn't make them a dwarf. A dwarf is a particular individual within the species or sub-species or even within a specific locality that is significantly smaller than the average for that specific species, sub-species, or locality.

People use the term incorrectly to describe smaller sub-species. But a Hog Island BCI averages 5-6 feet in length. The average Colombian BCI averages 7-8 feet. A Colombian BCI that only grew to 5 feet or a Hog Island that only grew to 3 feet could be considered a dwarf, but a Hog Island is not a dwarf to a Colombian - they are different localities and, unless the individual is smaller, they grow within their respective average. Note: a 5 foot Colombian could be considered a dwarf Colombian while still falling within the average of a Hog Island BCI. This is why it is important to note the species, sub-species, and locality and their respective averages when determining whether an animal is a true dwarf.

Despite their "typical" size, there are also quite a few individuals who grow larger than their average within all sub-species and localities.

All BCI, no matter the locality or prospective adult size, should not be any enclosure less than 4x2x2 feet in size. There are some localities and subspecies and/or large adult females that I would say should have even larger enclosures, but a 4x2x2 is a good starting point for most localities and for most males of any subspecies. This includes any smaller locality as well - even Hog Islands.

Boas are very active and alert snakes. They do not spend their time hiding in small spaces like BPs do. They will use every inch of space you give them. Bigger is always better.

There are many manufacturers that make pvc or HDPE plastic enclosures suitable for adult boas. Check out ConstrictorsNW and Animal Plastics to start:

http://www.constrictorsnw.com/

http://www.apcages.com/home/

Thank you for the information. I was aware that they are not technically "dwarfs"... I was just begin lazy and didn't want to type out "smaller locality". That said, thank you for the cage manufacturer links. I will definitely check them out.

I have been browsing on Vin Russo's site and (although I can't remember the exact locality), he mentioned adult lengths of 4-5 feet for some smaller boas. I will probably focus on those.

Thank you again for your time and response.

The smaller locality on Vin's site is probably the Tarahumara Mountain boa. These are the smallest of the Bci localities with adults often not reaching more than 4-5 feet in length.

And to note, my Hog did not tolerate being in a bin well and gave herself a nose rub. She had been in a 40 gallon breeder, and then a vision cage with no nose rubbing.

They are definitely worth having in a cage where you can observe them and they can observe you.

Thanks for the additional input guys. I would love to house one in a cage (of the pvc type) so I may just wait until I have room to setup one before I get a boa. I remembered reading that they are far more active than BPs, but wasn't sure exactly what enclosure size they would need. If a 4x2x2 is what would best suit them, then I will just wait until I can provide that... Hopefully I'll be able to find one used, it's too bad a good pvc cage is so much more expensive than a glass tank setup.

One question though.. If size is the main issue, could a very large plastic tub be used? i.e. the kind you get for storing large items like christmas trees? Obviously this isn't ideal, but could it function as a temporary solution if needed?

Evenstar- On Vin Russo's site he does list Tarahumara boas as dwarfs, but doesn't say what length they get to. he also lists the following as staying small:
crawl cays- "maxing out a 5 feet and breeding at 4"
Hog islands- "mature and breed at 5 feet"
"Blood / Red Dragon" boas- (linebred I'm guessing), maxing out at 5 feet
Cancun boas- "very small as adults and can be bred at less than 4 feet"
panama boas- "my 7 year old breeders are 4-5 feet"
Pearl island boas- "adults are less than 5 feet"

I know he's only one breeder out of many and he may just have small individuals of some of these localities, but it did give me hope that I might have more options for a boa that stays around 5 feet than I originally thought.

Vin Russo is very accurate. His information is totally correct. But take note: the sizes he gives are generally at what size the boa will BREED at. NOT necessarily the maximum size they will get. There is a difference. ;)

You can use one of the Iris Christmas tree boxes for boas. They are roughly 4x2x2 in size. However, good luck finding them. I believe Iris has discontinued making them. I haven't found them in stores anywhere in the last couple of years. If you are lucky enough to find some, let me know!!!

No other tub is appropriate for an adult boa (babies can be raised in tubs until they are 2-3 feet, depending on temperament).

You can get a 4x2x15" from Animal Plastics for $195. It's not a full 2' high, but it might do for one of the smaller localities you've mentioned. That's about what you'd put into a glass tank - and a pvc enclosure is SO much better.....

WalMart carries the Christmas Tree tubs during the holiday season. Most likely they're sold out by now. The Container Store carries them year-round but they charge more than WalMart.

Evenstar- Thank you for specifying what his sizes might mean... That's why I put what his website said in quotes... Sometimes, his descriptions gave their final size, sometimes it was ambiguous.

I will definitely consider the AP cage.. My current three snakes are in converted glass tanks and it is a pain to keep the humidity / heat right, which is why I was going to look into a rack system for them.

One question about the Christmas tree "tubs".. Do these not hold heat as well as a pvc cage (like the AP one you mentioned)? Also, do the AP cages stack?

If the tub isn't a good solution, I may just wait until I can order an AP cage to use... The cage would definitely look better than a Christmas tree tub at least.

bcr229- Thank you for the information on where to get a tub at... I don't think my local walmart has any more stocked, but I will check out the container store online and see what their prices / shipping are. Unfortunately we don't have one locally.

Thank you again for your time and information.

Not mine but I found this useful for showing how to set one up: http://www.redtailboas.com/f18/updat...de-pics-70251/

bcr229- Thank you so much for the link! Their setup looks great. Now I just need to find somewhere to fit a 4 foot long tub at...

If only I had a house instead of an apt., I would enter the USARK raffle and try to win a snakeroom...Then this thread would be a moot point. :P (Not that I'd win, I never win anything).

The tubs are ok. Most people do prefer the pvc enclosures because they do tend to hold heat better, but that can fixed by keeping your room temp up a small bit and/or adding a slightly higher watt UTH, so it's not a huge issue.

OUR Walmart does NOT carry these tubs, even around Christmas. Makes me mad. So if Iris still makes them, so much the better. They are popular among herpers. If I ever do come across some, I'll be buying several whether I need them or not.

I use the Iris VE-175 tubs (xmas tree boxes) for all of my adults under 7 feet. they are only 12" tall without the lid and 14" with the lid. 20" wide and 52 or 54 inches long cant remember at the moment. they work well for the dwarf species and other young bci. Hog Islands are notorious for pushing in small tubs. however you can use deeper tubs and help eliminate that problem.

Thanks again for the great info! I would prefer a cage... I am rather anal about how things look and everything "matching", so getting a cage would help my OCD on that end. That said, it will probably depend on when I plan on getting the snake. If I find these tubs and they are relatively cheap, I may go ahead and get one as a temporary measure (I can always use it for our Christmas tree when I buy a pvc cage to move the boa to). That said, I'll also be looking out for a good deal on a pvc cage as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by H.o.F.R

I use the Iris VE-175 tubs (xmas tree boxes) for all of my adults under 7 feet. they are only 12" tall without the lid and 14" with the lid. 20" wide and 52 or 54 inches long cant remember at the moment. they work well for the dwarf species and other young bci. Hog Islands are notorious for pushing in small tubs. however you can use deeper tubs and help eliminate that problem.

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Where do you find them Damon?? At your Walmart? Could be my Walmart is just stupid........ :mad:

Was doing a search online.
Blair's Farm and Fleet has them listed online and offered for "in store pickup" if the store has them.

Neatly Smart has them but says it "must ship freight" and the cart can't estimate a shipping cost

Looks like I'll be waiting to find a cage at a good price, or just save up for one that I can customize to what I want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Evenstar

Where do you find them Damon?? At your Walmart? Could be my Walmart is just stupid........ :mad:

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It's a seasonal item so they may not have it now. Try doing a "Site to Store" purchase after Thanksgiving, IIRC there's no shipping charged for those.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

It's a seasonal item so they may not have it now. Try doing a "Site to Store" purchase after Thanksgiving, IIRC there's no shipping charged for those.

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I understand that. I know they're seasonal. Walmart used to have them readily available at and around Christmas, but OUR Walmart apparently doesn't carry them at all any more - even around the holidays. I was wondering if Damon (H.0.F.R.) had found them elsewhere. Thanks though. ;)

I contacted Iris and they said they're in stores from Nov thru mid-January, and recommended trying WalMart and Aldi.