Tank setup

Here's the tank setup for now. I have one normal BP (Clyde). He's awesome. Here some pics of his setup. It has a UTH with a Hygrometer to run the UTH, heat lamp and mini fogger. I have a piece of cardboard on the bottom under the bedding to keep him from burrowing down and getting too hot. I have two prob temps and an ambient temp gauge. I have a few hides on each side of the tank as well as a small one in the middle. It's just cardboard for now but he likes it. I plan to get some plants to put in there to go with the rocks and the hides. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/era9a3e9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/hyrehuma.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/taba4yny.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/dyhuda9u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/6ysute8u.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/02/veje6y5u.jpg

Let me know what y'all think of the setup.




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Interesting! Nice looking snake :)
What kind of substrate is that?
You will want to get that tank off the floor, or at least have it raised a bit somehow so there is proper air flow for the UTH - it is a firehazard otherwise!!

I think you meant thermostat, not hygrometer :P hygrometers measure humidity levels, thermostats control heat output (ex. of UTHes). How are the temps looking?

I suggest swapping that heat bulb for a heat emitting bulb (or, if you want to see your snake at night and don't mind the glow) a red or black bulb. That way you don't have to turn it off at night, as red does not bother ball pythons (they can't see it on its own). You don't want temps dropping at night, you want it to remain around 80F ambient all the time :)

I love the idea of carboard hides. They are great when snakes aren't done growing! Or if you just don't want to invest in super expensive store bought hides!
One last comment. THE WATER IS SO BLUE. WHAT'S WITH THE BLUE?? LOL!

Best of luck :)

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Originally Posted by NH93

Interesting! Nice looking snake :)

I think you meant thermostat, not hygrometer :P hygrometers measure humidity levels, thermostats control heat output (ex. of UTHes). How are the temps looking?

I suggest swapping that heat bulb for a heat emitting bulb (or, if you want to see your snake at night and don't mind the glow) a red or black bulb. That way you don't have to turn it off at night, as red does not bother ball pythons (they can't see it on its own). You don't want temps dropping at night, you want it to remain around 80F ambient all the time :)

THE WATER IS SO BLUE. WHAT'S WITH THE BLUE?? LOL!

Best of luck :)

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It it is a hygrometer and thermostat together, it runs the mini fogger and UTH. I will have it off the ground, I have it there for cleaning since he shed last night. The water looks blue because the bottom of the bowl is painted blue. I have no idea why it just came with the tank. In the last pic you can see the waterbowl I made, but I didn't cure it completely and it cracked lol. When I tried to do a quick fix, it shattered lol. So I will be making a new bowl soon. Thanks for the info! Ohh and the bedding is Zilla bedding, not sure exact makeup of it, but it's made for snakes and other reptiles. I do have a blue and white light, I have been running the white light because it's been fairly cold lately and it helps keep the ambient temps up. I use the blue at night to do the same and also to see him.

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Originally Posted by NH93

You will want to get that tank off the floor, or at least have it raised a bit somehow so there is proper air flow for the UTH - it is a firehazard otherwise!!

I love the idea of carboard hides. They are great when snakes aren't done growing! Or if you just don't want to invest in super expensive store bought hides!!

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When controlled by a thermostat there is no need for an air gap for the UTH. The thermostat will prevent any heat build up from happening.

Cardboard hides are fine but they will need to be changed regularly to prevent bacteria/mold growth.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

When controlled by a thermostat there is no need for an air gap for the UTH. The thermostat will prevent any heat build up from happening.

Cardboard hides are fine but they will need to be changed regularly to prevent bacteria/mold growth.

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Good point about the cardboard hides.

However, I have to respectfully disagree with your first comment. If the probe is not under the tank but inside the tank (ex. on the bottom of the glass) the temperature will be different from the outside, underneath the tank. Also, with a heavy tank and a thick carpet, it would be touching the UTH - not a good idea.
There is a reason UTHs come with those little stickies to raise the tank.
Even if it were possible that a thermostat could prevent heat build up, which I don't agree with, it is much better to have air flow than risk it otherwise. Also not a smart idea to tell someone new to the hobby not to provide an air gap, when it could indeed be a fire hazard. At least that is my opinion.

To both of you, THANK YOU very much for your input. I greatly appreciate it both. As for the UTH, thank you I had not thought about the heat! fortunately that isn't where I keep the tank! I just had to down there to make cleaning it easier. Also, no I had not thought about the cardboard collecting bacteria and mold, but fortunately I am trying my make some more hides out of clay and by milling out some other large rocks. So, again to both of you, THANKS for the input. Both of you had great ideas.

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Originally Posted by NH93

Good point about the cardboard hides.

However, I have to respectfully disagree with your first comment. If the probe is not under the tank but inside the tank (ex. on the bottom of the glass) the temperature will be different from the outside, underneath the tank. Also, with a heavy tank and a thick carpet, it would be touching the UTH - not a good idea.
There is a reason UTHs come with those little stickies to raise the tank.
Even if it were possible that a thermostat could prevent heat build up, which I don't agree with, it is much better to have air flow than risk it otherwise. Also not a smart idea to tell someone new to the hobby not to provide an air gap, when it could indeed be a fire hazard. At least that is my opinion.

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Thermostat probes are supposed to be attached directly to the UTH on the outside of the cage, and will therefor keep the UTH at the temperature the thermostat is set to and not a degree higher. I agree with you that a cage shouldn't be placed on carpet regardless, but there really isn't any need for an air gap. Even at full power a UTH usually won't get above 150 F which is still well below the point of catching anything on fire. The only time a UTH is really at risk of setting something on fire is if it actually shorts out, and an air gap isn't going to change anything if that happens. Further do you really think a small air gap is going to make a huge difference? It will lower the UTH temp by 10-15 degrees max. It is just something they say to protect themselves in case of a lawsuit. According to Zoo-Med their UTH's don't require a thermostat to stay in safe ranges. I can tell you from first hand experience that they are straight up lying about that. I have seen them get up to 130+ much quicker than you would expect, but level off after that.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that it is smart to play it safe with people who are newer to the hobby. I have written many posts stating so, but this is one of those things that I can say 100% for sure that I know to be true. I have 8 cages currently running with no air gaps between them and those cages have 12" THG heat tape which can get a lot hotter than a pet store UTH. My thermostat keeps them all at 98.0 F (+/- 0.9 F as that is the accuracy of my thermostat) Even without that first hand experience I have done the math that shows that a small air gap has very little effect on UTH temperature.

Even with the thermostat probe placed inside the cage (which isn't advised as it isn't nearly as safe) the thermostat will still be turning the UTH on and off or reduce it's heat output regularly preventing any meaningful heat buildup under the cat ego occur. Do you really think the surface under the cage could get hot enough to start a fire without the inside of the cage getting hotter than 95 F and the thermostat cutting/reducing power to the UTH?

All in all if you want to have an air gap for your UTH go ahead, it won't cause any issues, but it won't save you from a catastrophe in the extremely rare case that it happens.

Not everyone does everything the same way, and there's more than one "right" way to do almost anything.

You are coming off a little strong, to me, in a battle of egos in which I refuse to take part in.
I truly thought this forum was to help people, such as this OP (and myself and yourself and many others)... not fight over who is right. Especially on what is largely subjective material. I am quite disappointed.

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Originally Posted by NH93

Not everyone does everything the same way, and there's more than one "right" way to do almost anything.

You are coming off a little strong, to me, in a battle of egos in which I refuse to take part in.
I truly thought this forum was to help people, such as this OP (and myself and yourself and many others)... not fight over who is right. Especially on what is largely subjective material. I am quite disappointed.

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This has nothing to do with ego, it has everything to do with you posting things that simply aren't true. The whole air gap issue is a very common misconception that is continued by zoo-med and the like having it written on their packaging. I am completely about helping people on this site. ask any of the people who have been a member for a few years. of my 8,000 posts at least ¾ of them are helping new members. I apologize if my posts have come across as strong, I did not intend for them to do so. What I was trying to do is correct a commonly held misconception and provide multiple ways of showing how/why it is incorrect. I feel that simply stating that something is or isn't the case is only half the battle, and that people need to know why things are done the way they are done in the hobby.

There are many ways to keep a ball python and as long as the snake is healthy and a few core things are followed then they are a "correct" way to keep a BP. However in this case you made a statement that simply isn't true and I have the physics to back me up on this. If we were talking about the best substrate to use, or the best heating method I wouldn't have made any posts like the ones I have. As an Engineering major in college I have taken entire courses on heat transfer/advanced physics, and I really do know what I'm talking about here. I'm not trying to show off, I'm trying to help people who might not have that knowledge, and that's what this site is about. Once again I never intended any of my posts as an attack at you, nor anyone else. I was simply trying to clear up a commonly held misconception.

Now on the subject of thermostat placement, yes there are multiple places in a ball python setup that the probe can go. Some work better than others and some simply don't work at all (I've seen people place thermostat probes half way up the wall of a cage and expect it to regulate a UTH mounted under the cage) On this site and many others that I have been on the general consensus is that having the thermostat probe directly attached to the UTH/heat tape is the "best" method. Does that mean it is the only way? No, but it is generally what people recommend to new members because it is the safest. When the probe is directly attached to the UTH on the outside of the cage there is no way for the snake to move the probe away from the heat or for anything in the cage to influence the probe. You then use a probed thermometer to see what the actual cage temperature is and set your thermostat accordingly.
Placing the probe inside the cage is also a perfectly acceptable placement, but it has risks that I don't want a new member to have to deal with. That said they are free to do so. Placing the probe inside the cage will give you better readings, but at the loss of safety.

In my previous post I was trying to say/show that with the generally recommend probe placement the heat buildup issue is in fact a nonissue. I will admit that after rereading that part of the post it does seem a little strongly worded. Later in my post I was just trying to show that even with the probe in the cage it is extremely improbable for a UTH controlled by a thermostat to have any issues with heat build up to the point of dangerous levels. This isn't one of the subjective part of the hobby, this is a matter of how heat transfers and how a thermostat controls a heat source.

Again thanks to everyone for the input. i have read all of them and put thopught into all of them. i have decided to keep the probe inside the tank umnderr the bedding right on top of where the UTH is located in order to KNOW what temp my BP is expiriencing should he decided to burrow down to the bottom. As for the air gap, yes I have my tank on a metal filing cabinet in my home office. It is not on the carpet. I am new to BPs and greatly appreciate all the input. All of your ideas have been considered.

On a side note, Clyde, my BP, is doing great, he is very active and I think he is settling in quiet well. he is not nearly as snappy or defensive as when i first got him and tends to move around i the tank much more often. He uses multiple hides but also has the favorite on the warm side of the tank. Once in a while I will find him basking near the ligth ontop of the wood i have placed in the tank, as well as on top of the rock. He just completed his first shed since ive had him and it came off 90% in one piece. He has a small piece on the end of his tail that i hope will come off today. Today is his feeding day and I will see how he does on that. He did reject the last two feedings, right before he started to turn grey and during his shed, but thats normal from what I have read.

Putting the Tstat probe IN the tank isn't "wrong," exactly. Not that Serpentmerchant said it was... The best reason for ME to put it outside is for cleaning purposes. I have my probe in the tank, and it's a pain to clean around it. It's secured to the bottom glass to keep it from losing contact with the floor. If you keep yours inside, secure it with silicone adhesive or hot glue. Just don't cover the actual probe tip.

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Sorry for getting off topic OP.
FROM WHAT I'VE READ (so no one critiques my subjective reply) is that if the tale tip is left on too long it can actually cut off circulation and fall off. Not to worry you, as it may take some time, but is still possible. Definitely keep an eye on it, but you may want to do what's called soaking or bathing, where you put the snake in a shallow and luke-warm/ambient temp water tub for about 20-30 mins. That can help soften the skin. You can also try having the snake slither through your hands, while you are holding a damp towel - so the snake is going through the damp towel. There are some products out that thay can help with shedding as well (I think one is called Shed-Eeze or something).
I think there are a few other ideas that I'm not aware of as well, but I know there are other posts out there if you are interested in what others have done.

I hope everything works out! Best of luck :)

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Originally Posted by NH93

Not everyone does everything the same way, and there's more than one "right" way to do almost anything.

You are coming off a little strong, to me, in a battle of egos in which I refuse to take part in.
I truly thought this forum was to help people, such as this OP (and myself and yourself and many others)... not fight over who is right. Especially on what is largely subjective material. I am quite disappointed.

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I find it interesting that in the same post you say there is more than one "right" way to do almost anything, yet are quite disappointed that Aaron's solid advice on this subjective material is different from yours...

Pointing out things that are right and things that are wrong is not a battle...it's an exchange of information.

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Originally Posted by Slim

I find it interesting that in the same post you say there is more than one "right" way to do almost anything, yet are quite disappointed that Aaron's solid advice on this subjective material is different from yours...

Pointing out things that are right and things that are wrong is not a battle...it's an exchange of information.

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I am disappointed in the egos I find on this forum. I have never personally had a problem with anyone on this site (not saying there is one here), but when quoting a subjective comment and stating it as incorrect... to me that is not okay, and not a fair exchange of information, as you say. Not the first time this has happened with the same individual.

If my information is wrong - and I mean whole-heartedly wrong in that I've given bad advice - then I would completely understand. For safety of snake and owner, of course.
No need to start battles, though. Especially when it comes to matters of opinion.

Just my two sense. Since you quoted me I thought you might be interested in that as well.
But I am going to respectfully duck out of this thread as it has gone way off topic (again, I apologize OP). Any other issues, feel free to message me directly instead.

I haven't read this thread in its entirety, but, I would absolutely listen to anything SerpentMerchant has to say. He is a very smart guy, and has always been very patient and helpful with newbs. He is definitely not someone I would describe as having an ego. So maybe some people need to unbunch their panties...

I have to agree with Doolittle (or she'll make me eat her magic sixlets) on this one.

NH93 - I usually agree with you and I think you're really great about not getting riled or getting sucked into the nonsense that sometimes arises here. In a lot of ways I wish I were more like you (mostly in the hair category). This time though I think you're picking up a vibe that isn't there. Aaron doesn't have an ego at all. I don't think I've ever read a single post of his where he came off that way, and he's infinitely patient when it comes to explaining the same thing over and over in detail until it's understood.

You're both two of the "nicest" regular contributors on the forum. This is just a misunderstanding caused by not being able to gauge tone through text. If you were in the same room having this discussion, neither of you would pick up on ego or attitude, I'm sure.

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Originally Posted by Stark5050

Again thanks to everyone for the input. i have read all of them and put thopught into all of them. i have decided to keep the probe inside the tank umnderr the bedding right on top of where the UTH is located in order to KNOW what temp my BP is expiriencing should he decided to burrow down to the bottom. As for the air gap, yes I have my tank on a metal filing cabinet in my home office. It is not on the carpet. I am new to BPs and greatly appreciate all the input. All of your ideas have been considered.

On a side note, Clyde, my BP, is doing great, he is very active and I think he is settling in quiet well. he is not nearly as snappy or defensive as when i first got him and tends to move around i the tank much more often. He uses multiple hides but also has the favorite on the warm side of the tank. Once in a while I will find him basking near the ligth ontop of the wood i have placed in the tank, as well as on top of the rock. He just completed his first shed since ive had him and it came off 90% in one piece. He has a small piece on the end of his tail that i hope will come off today. Today is his feeding day and I will see how he does on that. He did reject the last two feedings, right before he started to turn grey and during his shed, but thats normal from what I have read.

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Place the thermostat probe outside the tank and get a thermometer & place that probe on the inside where you have the thermostat probe now.

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Originally Posted by Stark5050

It it is a hygrometer and thermostat together, it runs the mini fogger and UTH. I will have it off the ground, I have it there for cleaning since he shed last night..

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Still amazes me how many did not read that :rolleye2::rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Stark5050

The water looks blue because the bottom of the bowl is painted blue. I have no idea why it just came with the tank. In the last pic you can see the waterbowl I made, but I didn't cure it completely and it cracked lol. When I tried to do a quick fix, it shattered lol. So I will be making a new bowl soon.

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Save the trouble unless you just want to make one............. Walmart ceramic dog bowls are about $7 each and can take a good beating :oops:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Save the trouble unless you just want to make one............. Walmart ceramic dog bowls are about $7 each and can take a good beating :oops:

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Thanks PitOnTheProwl, I probably will just purchase a new waterbowl once he outgrows this one. I do enjoy making most of my own stuff, but at the same time I have failed epically at the clay stuff. I did try to mill out one of the flat stones I have in there, and it worked great for a hide. However, when I tried to seal it so I could use it for a waterbowl, again it failed. Although it stayed together I could never get it to seal completely and it looked horrible with the sealant on it. I know I could seal it with a stronger automotive grade sealant used in fuel tanks, but I don't think I want to expose my BP to that kind of chemicals, so I will probably stick with a store bought bowl from here on out. Maybe I can modify a store bought bowl and camo it up to look more appealing.

Thanks ks again folks for all y'all's input!!:):)

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Originally Posted by Stark5050

It it is a hygrometer and thermostat together, it runs the mini fogger and UTH.

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I can't believe I didn't catch this before, but are you talking about the ZooMed HygroTherm?

The reason I ask is that I really don't think that's the best Tstat for controlling a UTH. Don't get me wrong, it's a great controller, and I use one myself, but the size of the probe coupled with the fact that it can't be used directly on the bottom of the cage (inside or out) means it's really best for ambient air temp.

If you're using something else, just disregard all of that.

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I like your set up! I remember reading a book about keeping snakes in more natural type set ups (I think it was titled "The Art of Keeping Snakes") and how the author observed his snakes displaying a range of behaviors that he never saw in basic set ups. So I'm sure Clyde appreciates all that you've done. :) I know a couple of my BP's love to crawl up and around on things at night, as evidenced by their re-arranging of stuff every morning.

I would also agree with those who say to try and get that last piece of shed on his tail off. I do have personal experience with a tail tip getting amputated by stuck sheds. It happens over several sheds, the old sheds start building up and as the snake grows it ends up cutting off circulation. Easier to get it off when it's only one layer, just use some mineral oil.

And before anything thinks I'm abusive to my snakes, this happened a ball python that I took in for a co-worker whose 12 year old son got tired of caring for him. I didn't sit there watching the sheds build up to see what would happen!


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Just an update, Clyde finally got his tail piece off. Minot sure how, but sometime during the night he got it off. I was gonna intervene today but when I went downstairs with the mineral oil and rag, he already had it off.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/18/ype7y3ez.jpgadded some vegetation to Clyde's tank, he seems to approve!!!


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