Some Snake News out of Southern California

Hey guys, haven't been on much recently but felt the need to bring this up. There was a python hoarder in Santa Ana, California arrested this morning for animal cruelty. Several hundred snakes and they all look like balls. Most of them were dead, from what the news outlets say. This story is just breaking and getting updated as I type this, I'll link the article I found. Various news outlets have cross posted to twitter and from what I can see, the non herpers are freaking out about it.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/lo...242593641.html
https://twitter.com/ABC7/status/428554844152946688

:( :( :(

http://ktla.com/2014/01/29/police-di...-in-santa-ana/

A link to the channel I actually saw the story first on. It's got a video on it from this morning's broadcast. I'm very concerned for how this will effect the general public's perception of us here in SoCal and nationwide.

They interviewed an animal control agent who went about how the snake industry is flooded with breeders and you can't sell them for more than $200. Just non-herpers being themselves, I suppose.

He was not hoarding them he was simply holding on to them tell the market improved and he was able to sell them for more money :rofl:

Horrible situation. This isn't too far away from me. It will be interesting to see how this is handled by the media. Let's hope it doesn't get twisted to put a bad light on the Herp community. Yea, right!

I just really hope people don't start blaming it on the animals themselves. As in, no more laws against snakes and herps!!
I am tired of seeing stories about failed or neglectful pet owners, but having the negetive backlash against the innocent pets themselves. I will be surprised if they decide to ban ball pythons or the like because someone was hoarding them.

People hoard dogs and cats and other animals too, and they don't get banned...

It's the owners that cause the problems and should suffer the consequences (in my opinion).

That's just awful. :(
I'm glad he's being arrested on charges of animal cruelty. I hope the majority of people will look at it as an animal cruelty case, and not as a "snake problem" case. Although a lot of animals are banned in California, being a more liberal state does mean a little more tolerance for those animals that are legal (and even those that aren't legal but are still kept here). At least that's been my experience! Doesn't mean everyone likes them, of course.

Now I'm waiting to hear from my family members who live out there... They already don't like my snakes. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by anneplath

They interviewed an animal control agent who went about how the snake industry is flooded with breeders and you can't sell them for more than $200.

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Which might convince people thinking about getting into snake breeding as a get-rich-quick scheme to look elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by sorraia

Now I'm waiting to hear from my family members who live out there... They already don't like my snakes. :rolleyes:

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Same here... after that Canada incident every one kept asking my mom "What are you going to do with Kat's snakes now that they're dangerous?" -_-

My grandpa, who is our land lord, doesn't like my snakes and now he'll probably really freak out about them ._.
Thank goodness I've converted my grandma to not being so scared, so hopefully it won't be too bad of a freak-out.

This is just really sad.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/242600001.html

http://www.dailypilot.com/news/tn-dp...,4193298.story

http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Cali...Found-in-Home/

This is very upsetting. These are the kinds of stories that make our families worry when they hear that the hobbyist in their family is using racks/getting more than just one snake.

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Why does our hobby seem to attract so many nut-cases?? It's bad for our image!!:rage::rage:

Looks like he may be a member here http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/brow...imageuser=7237

From Bill Buchmans profile page...
My Collection:WAY TOO MANY!!! ALL BALL PYTHONS!!!

Yeah...ya think?

Im sure this is hyped up a lot. He may have had a few dead and some as the report say's BONES so starving snakes which is horrible but the majority of the queues seem to be coming from people who cry abuse because you keep a snake in a rack system. Like no
actual number of dead snakes just actual how many he had total... Hmmm. And the one quote "the majority of them are GOING to be dead". Come on really.


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Im sure this is hyped up a lot. He may have had a few dead and some as the report say's BONES so starving snakes which is horrible but the majority of the queues seem to be coming from people who cry abuse because you keep a snake in a rack system. Like no
actual number of dead snakes just actual how many he had total... Hmmm. And the one quote "the majority of them are GOING to be dead". Come on really.


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Did you not flip through the photo gallery??? Or read the comments from neighbors???

That is just TERRIBLE. If I'm not mistaken.....is this the High End Herps Bill Buchman?? I read a long BOI thread on him before on Fauna....if this is the same guy....people thought he was dead? Not sure if this is the same person.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Did you not flip through the photo gallery??? Or read the comments from neighbors???

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Belay my last!!!!!


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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Belay my last!!!!!


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From what I've read, it seems he just got in over his head, combined with the fact that he lost his Mom a year or two ago...that can have a crushing effect on some folks...sad situation all around...for the snakes and Bill...

Guy's Fauna profile: http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/foru...r.php?u=117357

By his thanked posts here and the replies on the article it looks like this guy was liked by both our community and his community in SoCal. Last activity here was in December 2012. Tends to be how stuff like this happens, people fall out of contact and then you see them on some strange/tragic news story. I always find it strange how no one was around to intervene before things get this bad. Did the guy have no one he could go to for support? Really sucks all around.

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Originally Posted by sho220

From what I've read, it seems he just got in over his head, combined with the fact that he lost his Mom a year or two ago...that can have a crushing effect on some folks...sad situation all around...for the snakes and Bill...

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Totally agree


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From the comments on many of the articles (once you get past all the stupid comments posted by people who think all snake keepers are "sick") it seems like he was very much loved and respected previously. I see lots of posts from families of his former students saying that he was a really great teacher, and introduced many kids to animals. This whole thing makes me very sad. I'm also very worried about what impact this could have, with exotic animals being such a hot topic at the moment.

Ugh, he had so many cool dinker projects, some proved out, napalm, cajun, reaper. I was excited to see some of the other odd ball stuff prove out.

story makes it sound like a case of hoarding triggered by his mother's death, unfortunate.

Not to excuse what this guy did, but grief can really mess you up mentally. I came close to really screwing up my life and family a few years back after my mom passed away. I didn't realize how badly I was affected. Fortunately my husband and some close friends encouraged me to get help before my life became a complete mess. It looks like this guy lived alone, so without support from others he probably just fell apart. Damned shame the snakes had to suffer also.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

story makes it sound like a case of hoarding triggered by his mother's death, unfortunate.

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That's the impression I get as well...

Very sad. I agree, it does sound like he was a great member of the community just overwhelmed/overcome by the passing of his mother.

Ugh... makes me sick...

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Not to excuse what this guy did, but grief can really mess you up mentally. I came close to really screwing up my life and family a few years back after my mom passed away. I didn't realize how badly I was affected. Fortunately my husband and some close friends encouraged me to get help before my life became a complete mess. It looks like this guy lived alone, so without support from others he probably just fell apart. Damned shame the snakes had to suffer also.

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This ^ grief can be horrible. Especially without any support around you. Sad story all the way around. And it paints a terrible picture to the ignorant.

This is really sad... I'm glad they're prosecuting this guy on criminal charges. It's crazy to me how people loose control.

I live 45 minutes from Santa Ana so maybe I'll see if I'd be able to adopt one...

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USARK just posted on facebook about it. They said there are 186 that are alive. Over 200 dead. The live ones are being taken care of by the The Southern California Herpetology Association and Rescue. They also posted the donation page for the rescue for people to donate to the care of the remaining snakes. Very very sad situation.

That's terrible, clearly the man became severely depressed and stopped caring for himself and the animals, ppl need to learn to seek help

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Originally Posted by kylearmbar

ppl need to learn to seek help

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For some, the hardest thing in the world is to ask for help...

Just what the title says. For those of you that don't read the news or just haven't heard, a "breeder" in Santa Ana, California went pretty much totally crazy and left his hundreds and hundreds of animals to die. The stench of rotting mice and snake alerted the neighbors and called the cops. Hundreds were eventually found dead and the 186 survivors, in terrible shape, were turned over to a rescue group nearby. Obviously the snakes require serious medical attention and the group is trying to raise money to fund their recovery. Donate to these wonderful people saving the animals we love.

A link to the article:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/30/us/cal...html?hpt=hp_t2


A link to DONATE to these beautiful, loving people:

http://www.gofundme.com/6k852w


Breaks my heart. I really can't not tear up. :(

Asking for help is SO hard. I am so sorry his animals had to suffer for his grief and pain, and from what I hear they are pressing charges, so I imagine part of his penance will be a psych eval and proper treatment to help him cope with his immense loss. Hoarding is just one symptom of a much larger issue.

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Thank you for the donate link, I posted it on my social media as well.

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Originally Posted by Archimedes

Thank you for the donate link, I posted it on my social media as well.

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Thank you so much! I posted on my Facebook too! I'm hoping our community can reach out and help these people.

Reading those comments has me fired up. :mad: I will be donating tomorrow after I get a check deposited.

Any information on how to get involved or volunteer? I live about 45 minutes away and would like to help out any way I can.

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Originally Posted by Misha

This is really sad... I'm glad they're prosecuting this guy on criminal charges. It's crazy to me how people loose control.

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Well, I'm NOT glad that their pressing charges. This guy was a member of this forum, a rather well liked and respected member who suffered a recent tragedy. While I'm not a psychologist, I do deal with severe depression every day and this sounds like a pretty classic case to me.

It's a very sad story all around, it's very sad that the animals were suffering and dying, but remember that in the middle of all of this there is also a human being who is suffering as well.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Well, I'm NOT glad that their pressing charges. This guy was a member of this forum, a rather well liked and respected member who suffered a recent tragedy. While I'm not a psychologist, I do deal with severe depression every day and this sounds like a pretty classic case to me.

It's a very sad story all around, it's very sad that the animals were suffering and dying, but remember that in the middle of all of this there is also a human being who is suffering as well.

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I had no idea. (I also didn't read the news story, so that's my own fault).
I guess it completely depends on the situation...
When mental illness is involved, it can be a whole other thing. The most important thing here, to me anyways, is that the animals get taken care of (along with the person who had them) and that the public be aware. As in, of THE TRUTH. But, when the hell does that ever happen with the media.

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Well, I'm NOT glad that their pressing charges. This guy was a member of this forum, a rather well liked and respected member who suffered a recent tragedy. While I'm not a psychologist, I do deal with severe depression every day and this sounds like a pretty classic case to me.

It's a very sad story all around, it's very sad that the animals were suffering and dying, but remember that in the middle of all of this there is also a human being who is suffering as well.

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Who knows what makes people do the heinous things they do. Did this guy suffer some kind of emotional trauma yet to be reviled? If so, what could have happened that would cause this guy to make these snakes suffer like he did? Snakes don’t just die over night from neglect. It takes MONTHS AND MONTHS of neglect. I’ve known snakes to go without eating for over a year! This equates to MONTHS AND MONTHS of suffering for these snakes!!

Hopefully, this guy will get some help now. (I doubt it though)

Too bad, the same can't be said for the snakes that had to suffer for such a long time before they died. Hopefully the remaining snakes will find good homes and not be put down.

I’m sorry, but I find it hard to have compassion for someone that can allow something like this to happen. A simple phone call could/would have prevented this from happening. Even a simple post here on the forum.

I put people like this right up there with child molesters. These are people that have no regard for the sanctity of life. Depression or no depression. These snakes could have, just as easily, been children.

This guy may have been a respected member of this society, but I ask you..… How respected is he now?? Many a child molesters and murderers have been considered respected members of the community as well.

This guy should never be allowed to own another living animal as long as he lives. He will get no jail time. Just as those that neglect other animals get a slap on the hand – so will he.

horrible

You had to read through multiple news articles to piece the story together. It looks like he went downhill after his mom passed away a few years ago, and he didn't have any close friends/family who knew there was a problem until it was too late. Whether his grief caused his depression or exacerbated a pre-existing problem he had, who knows.

Instead of arguing/figuring out what happened, please donate whatever you can so they can try and save these animals. It already happened so lets move on.

Here's the donation link: http://www.gofundme.com/6k852w

Also, if you're in South California, they're accepting donations of any supplies you can give. Email them directly: socalherpassn@gmail.com

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Originally Posted by Andys-Python

It takes MONTHS AND MONTHS of neglect. I’ve known snakes to go without eating for over a year! This equates to MONTHS AND MONTHS of suffering for these snakes!!

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No it doesn't take MONTH'S AND MONTH'S. With high heat and no water it can take less then a month

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I put people like this right up there with child molesters. These are people that have no regard for the sanctity of life. Depression or no depression. These snakes could have, just as easily, been children.

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This is a completely ridiculous assumption and shows just how little you know. Your further diatribe sounds like the rantings of a petulant child.

I just hope this doesn't lead to more nonsensical laws being passed. I've read so many FB comments about this story already (from non-herpers) calling for "more inspections" and "stricter licensing" on people keeping snakes... They would not do the same if it was a case of a hoarder with dogs / cats. There's just too little knowledge about how snakes are properly kept and that they have similar status to dogs and cats as pets, in the general population.

I agree that this guy has issues, but I hope that he does have to go through consequences for his actions. If he does have to do jail time, maybe they can get a psychiatrist to work with him. However, mental issues are not an excuse for what he did. In our society there's too much of a tendency to never take responsibility for one's actions... i.e. it was because I had a messed up childhood, or I was bullied, or... You fill in the blank. Yes, he obviously was depressed, but as others have said, that would not excuse his actions if he had murdered a person, stolen property, molested a child, etc. This should be treated like any other crime.

I hope the remaining snakes are allowed to be adopted out to good homes and not euthanized, as others have said. It's great that the local reptile club is taking care of them, otherwise, I'm sure animal control would have killed all of them.

Thanks for posting this. So often you hear of tragedies and are not able to do anything, it's nice to be able to donate. Misha- I think the local reptile club is handling it, you could contact them to find out what you could do.

Bastards

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Can we donate by requesting to adopt the snakes?

Also, it wouldnt take long for all kinds of bacterial infections to set in if he stopped cleaning cages. Animals laying in their own filth, no water changes, no humidity regulation, and no food can certainly kill the animals within weeks instead of months. Some animals survived and the ones that were dead did not appear to be from starvation in the video i saw, they were skinny but no where near what i typically see in your average crappy pet store.