New ball pythons, first time owner, one angry snake

Went to my first reptile show today with the intent of buying one, possibly two BP's. I am set up for the two and that's what I came home with. Both are 2013 captive bred hatchlings. One is late 2013 and the other is mid to late but is about 30% bigger (longer and wider).

The younger one was very angry coming out of the bag. It coiled up and was hissing a lot. The other one came out of its bag, and immediately started exploring the counter top. When it passed in front of the younger snake, the younger one struck the head of the larger one and held on for several seconds. I was kind of shocked. I covered the younger one with the bag and it stopped hissing and we were able to pick it up and put it into its enclosure.

Each is in its own identical enclosure. Glass tanks with all sides covered, two (large sides) are completely covered and the other two on the bottom third. Each has two hides, a UTH, CHE, cypress substrate (same as breeder used) and are thermostat controlled. The hot side is 91-95, ambient temp is 89-95, cold side is 81-85. Measured with a temp gun and probe. My plan is to leave the two alone for 7-10 days and then try and feed (I was told they are both eating mouse hoppers and rat pinkies). I have two corn snakes I feed in containers separate from their enclosures. Most of what I'm reading and all I've been told is to feed the Balls in their enclosures. Is that the consensus?

Im hoping the settling in period is enough to improve the younger ones temperament. Any one else experience such an aggressive young snake?

Yes, feed your BP's in their cages.

Your little guy had a stressful day. He might have just been freaked out. Let them settle in then reevaluate.

Yup, sound like normal stress, and hatchling defensiveness. Hatchlings are hardwired to think that anything that's not food is going to eat them. Some more so than others. With time and patience most grow out of it and learn you won't harm them.

Why is consensus to feed in their tanks? i feed mine in a feeder tank and he does just fine he actually prefers it because the second i put him in to the feeder tank he goes into food mode he strikes the second i put the rat in, i say he prefers it because i assume he then knows food is coming

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Originally Posted by ZacharyPoller

Why is consensus to feed in their tanks?

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I can only speak for me.

Less stressful. Less chance of getting bit. Easier.

Mine know it's food time when they smell rats in the air. No need for a special container.

I don't feel a chance of getting bit when i move him to the feeder, I don't know if it stresses him out, I think he does well with stress he never refused a meal and never struck at me, and as far as taking him out of the feeder and move him to the tank i just make him aware its my hand i rub him and then pick him up. I guess it would be easier to feed in the tank if you had A. either a lot of snakes B. Snake that gets stressed easily C. Snake that likes to tag you.

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Originally Posted by ZacharyPoller

I guess it would be easier to feed in the tank if you had A. either a lot of snakes B. Snake that gets stressed easily C. Snake that likes to tag you.

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Main reason I can think of off the top of my head where it makes sense to feed in separate tank is housing multiple BP's in the same enclosure. Everything else, in tank seems easier regardless of numbers of snakes or attitudes of snakes.

Steps to feed in separate tank:
1. Open primary tank
2. Remove snake
3. Place snake in feed tank
4. Place food in feed tank
5. Wait til snake is done feeding...
6. Open feed tank
7. Remove snake from feed tank
8. Place snake back in primary tank

Steps to feed in tank:
1. Open tank
2. Insert food
3. Snake takes care of everything else

I agree with Zachary's comment, above.
I had read that you should feed them in a separate enclosure to avoid them thinking that you're reaching into their habitat to feed them (when you're actually trying get them out and 'play'), thus getting tagged. You don't want them associating their habitat with food, for that reason. Seems to be working. Personally, I'd rather take the extra steps to avoid getting bitten. But that's just MHO.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200xth

Main reason I can think of off the top of my head where it makes sense to feed in separate tank is housing multiple BP's in the same enclosure. Everything else, in tank seems easier regardless of numbers of snakes or attitudes of snakes.

Steps to feed in separate tank:
1. Open primary tank
2. Remove snake
3. Place snake in feed tank
4. Place food in feed tank
5. Wait til snake is done feeding...
6. Open feed tank
7. Remove snake from feed tank
8. Place snake back in primary tank

Steps to feed in tank:
1. Open tank
2. Insert food
3. Snake takes care of everything else

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Very true its saves a lot of time to feed in tank. Thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lubana

I had read that you should feed them in a separate enclosure to avoid them thinking that you're reaching into their habitat to feed them (when you're actually trying get them out and 'play'), thus getting tagged. You don't want them associating their habitat with food, for that reason. Seems to be working. Personally, I'd rather take the extra steps to avoid getting bitten. But that's just MHO.

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If you only reach in to feed them and for no other reason ever...maybe.

I open their tubs for all kinds of reasons. Water changes, cleanings, handling, food. I open the enclosure to change the water more than any other reason. Food is last on the list by count.

If anything, mine should expect fresh water when I open their tub.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 200xth

If you only reach in to feed them and for no other reason ever...maybe.

I open their tubs for all kinds of reasons. Water changes, cleanings, handling, food. I open the enclosure to change the water more than any other reason. Food is last on the list by count.

If anything, mine should expect fresh water when I open their tub.

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Speaking of water i change mine daily but i have only seen my snake once drinking from there, but I'm sure he drinks when I'm not around

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ZacharyPoller

Why is consensus to feed in their tanks? i feed mine in a feeder tank and he does just fine he actually prefers it because the second i put him in to the feeder tank he goes into food mode he strikes the second i put the rat in, i say he prefers it because i assume he then knows food is coming

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I feed mine in their enclosures because moving an adult boa with a strong food response that lasts for hours after she eats from her regular enclosure to a feeding tank and back would end up with me bleeding from multiple puncture wounds.

Also some of my BP's are on f/t and it can take them quite a while to decide if they're going to eat or not. One male took 12 hours. I put the rat in just after I did the dinner dishes, and he laid in his tub with his head on the dead rat so I didn't disturb him. I finally caught him eating it when I woke up the next morning.

Since this thread got a little off topic, I'll just revert back to the main questions.

I have heard that younger snakes tend to be more defensive and nervous, simply becuase they don't have as much experience being around humans and being handled. It is odd to me that one snake bit the other, but I think if anything moved in front of it, including your hand, it would have been bitten. Just a nervous-Nelly in need of some quiet time.
Your enclosures sound good! I might turn down that hot side a tad to get it to around 90F instead of 95F; that little bit of extra heat can make a difference with the stress levels of your snake. Not sure how much with ball pythons, but I know other snakes like colubrids (I'm thinking corn snakes especially) can become very upset and defensive when their vives are just a little too warm.

Try not to be upset about that outburst from your smaller snake though; just the stress of moving and being at a show all day :)

Best of luck, and welcome to the addiciton!

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Originally Posted by ZacharyPoller

Speaking of water i change mine daily but i have only seen my snake once drinking from there, but I'm sure he drinks when I'm not around

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Every time I have my snakes out for playtime and I put them back, I place them in so their head purposely touches their water dish so they could take a sip and nine times out of 10 they usually do. I change all water dishes every day too, but I use jugged water instead of tap water. I live in South Florida and our tap water is wayyyy overly processed.


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Some snakes do fine with a feeding tub, but at least in my experience bps don't, their to touchy on feeding. With others, as has been mentioned, their "feed mode" is still on long enough to make itnan issue getting them back to their cage. Not to mention the fact that you should avoid handling after feeding. Hard to get a snake out of a feeding container without handling it some. If I feed them in their cage they can just curl up where they want to be when they finish.

A lot of great tips, advice and experience shared. I'll hang in there with the grumpy one. He only hissed at people. No striking. Biting the other snake that got close was what alarmed and surprised me.

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

Some snakes do fine with a feeding tub, but at least in my experience bps don't, their to touchy on feeding. With others, as has been mentioned, their "feed mode" is still on long enough to make itnan issue getting them back to their cage. Not to mention the fact that you should avoid handling after feeding. Hard to get a snake out of a feeding container without handling it some. If I feed them in their cage they can just curl up where they want to be when they finish.

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Darkbird, what I usually do is leave them for about 10-15 minutes after they've eaten so it gives their food a little time to get started 'settling' and then I gently move them to their vivs (which the vivs aren't far away), to avoid regurgitation. I gently place them in with their little heads near their water dish so they can get a drink. I've had two of my babies for almost 7 months and never had a problem. I guess there's always a first time for everything though, right? lol


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Originally Posted by Moneypit

A lot of great tips, advice and experience shared. I'll hang in there with the grumpy one. He only hissed at people. No striking. Biting the other snake that got close was what alarmed and surprised me.

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The little guy was probably just extremely stressed and freaked out. Pillow-case travel is not something snakes are initially used to. Depending on how long your drive back home was, and if he was only in a pillow case with nothing tight to press against, he would be pretty stressed out and ready to strike/hiss at anything, which he did.
Next time you buy a snake/transport one, try putting him in a pillow case and putting that in a cardboard box close to the size of the snake's hide. That'll help keep the stress down and prevent a tagging when you take them back out.


As for out-of-tank v. in-tank feeding, that's up to you. I feed mine out-of-tank so that way I can clean the enclosure when they're feeding.

All good suggestions. He was in the small cloth bag which was in a box sized for a couple lightbulbs and the ride home was about 20 minutes. He was side by side with the other BP we bought (separate bags, same box) with a heat pack and two box flaps separating the heat pack from the bags. If I had to guess, the box was 5"x3"x4" tall.

He did spend all day in a clear round plastic container stacked up with 30-50 others being constantly picked up, moved and having others stacked on top. I know I was doing the same thing looking at what was there.

Ill see see how he is in 7-10 days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DQssbM0uk

i have actually had to use this a lot with a rescue i ended up with that was an adult malnourished and bitten up by rats.. she was a mean aggressive bp when i got her but this technique worked well.

youtube videos of very recent hatchings ... they snap a literally anything that moves. those instincts on top of that stress and being in an unfamiliar place. totally normal and will mellow out in a few days of being left alone in peace

Ive used both ways in the past. I also didnt feel like my snake was stressed because he always ate.
But i dont do it like that anymore. I dont have alot of snakes but its just easier to feed in their enclousure.

Nothing wrong with either way as long as the snake eats. I just have some that it seems nothing phases them, over to ones that won't eat while I'm in the room.

Now back to the original issue, hatchlings seem to start striking at anything that moves once they get a little stressed. Fingers, hands, feeding tongs or a small hook, the arm holding them, the water dish as I put it back in, and so on. Not all do this of course, but it's definitely not out of the ordinary.

Video was very informative. Thanks for the link. I'll use that method if things don't improve after the settling in period.