How to keep retics on the smaller side? (Mainlands)

Hey everyone. So I am subscribed to numerous youtube channels to keep up to date with all my favorite snake keeps. Anyways.. I had seen recently that I believe it was Prehistoric Pets posted a video about keeping a mainland retic smaller. It was a female on a clutch of eggs. I believe they had said she was 20lbs. She looked pretty small to me. They said, "we have treated this like a pet. Not like a breeding animal or something to make money off of." I by no means believe in starving an animal to keep it malnourished and at a size you can handle. But she appeared very healthy. I was curious how you would go about this. I read somewhere that they need fed at least every 10 days as babies-juveniles or else they will get really hungry and can become irritated and nippy not to mention malnourished. I would like to get a mainland retic. But I can't handle more then 10-12 feet of snake (I am not even 5'). I have all necessary means of caring for it. I just need to know anybody that has had success with keeping a mainland no bigger then 12 ft. :snake:

Why? I mean if you get a mainland retic you should expect a snake on the large size or you should get a locality or even get a super dwarf if size is an issue. Why the need to keep an animal small when it has the potential to get bigger? :confuzd:

I can't wrap my brain around the idea of people trying to keep animal small because "insert reason here"

Not picking on you just wondering the thought process especially when smaller retics ARE available.

Just on a side note a 12 foot retic is still no joke...do you have a second person that will be with you all times when handling a snake that large?

I also agree with Deborah there are options for "smaller" retics. I am sure reptileexperts will chime in at some point so I will wait to hear his response.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Why? I mean if you get a mainland retic you should expect a snake on the large size or you should get a locality or even get a super dwarf if size is an issue. Why the need to keep an animal small when it has the potential to get bigger? :confuzd:

I can't wrap my brain around the idea of people trying to keep animal small because "insert reason here"

Not picking on you just wondering the thought process especially when smaller retics ARE available.

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Super dwarfs are out of the budget. They seem seriously expensive.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Just on a side note a 12 foot retic is still no joke...do you have a second person that will be with you all times when handling a snake that large?

I also agree with Deborah there are options for "smaller" retics. I am sure reptileexperts will chime in at some point so I will wait to hear his response.

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Yes, I do have a second person that will supervise and help when it is handled. I also know that a 12 foot snake isn't a joke (not met to sound rude or anything at all.) I was just curious because I had seen it done and the retic still looked healthy and such. I in no way intend on doing anything that would cause the animals harm or any problems. I had been looked at super dwarfs, but when I saw this it sparked my interest.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

Super dwarfs are out of the budget. They seem seriously expensive.

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Have you checked the budget of feeding a super dwarf vs a mainland over the course of their life?

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Originally Posted by John1982

Have you checked the budget of feeding a super dwarf vs a mainland over the course of their life?

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Not really.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Just on a side note a 12 foot retic is still no joke...do you have a second person that will be with you all times when handling a snake that large?

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x2. I'm 6' and my 9 footer can still be a handful if he's feeling antsy. If you don't want a 12+ foot snake, don't get a mainland. Just keep saving up until you can get a super swarf. Would you consider a "full grown" 400 gram ball healthy? I've seen all those videos too, and it's obvious prehistoric pets is using them as a marketing strategy to appeal to the smaller snake keepers that may be nervous of the giants simply to sell more snakes.


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Originally Posted by TheSnakeGeek

x2. I'm 6' and my 9 footer can still be a handful if he's feeling antsy. If you don't want a 12+ foot snake, don't get a mainland. Just keep saving up until you can get a super swarf. Would you consider a "full grown" 400 gram ball healthy? I've seen all those videos too, and it's obvious prehistoric pets is using them as a marketing strategy to appeal to the smaller snake keepers that may be nervous of the giants simply to sell more snakes.


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Def wouldn't consider that healthy. I will just save up money to get a super dwarf.

Another thing to consider OP is that you're 15 correct? If you decide on a mainland do you plan on moving away to college/living in the dorms? Add the costs of feeding and the space involved also. Super dwarf I think is the way to go.

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

Another thing to consider OP is that you're 15 correct? If you decide on a mainland do you plan on moving away to college/living in the dorms? Add the costs of feeding and the space involved also. Super dwarf I think is the way to go.

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I am 17. I was sharing this profile with another person up until last night. But I get where you are coming from. Although I do not plan on moving away to college/living in a dorm room. But I get what you mean.

Pretty important points brought up already.

I'd like to add that this is a 10+ year time investment your taking on. So do you have folks that for 10+ years can be there everytime you interact with the animal? This isnt just handling, this is any interaction.

Super Dwarfs that are 100% from Travis Kubes are like $300-500 so thats pretty cheap as snakes go. Also as an above poster mentioned, that mainland might be $100 or less initially but in the end your talking lots of big rabbits and a 10ft cage for females. I'm sure someone on here knows more then I do but I think a 3lb rabbit is like $7-12.

Of course, personally i dont really dig the super small retics. I like retics in the 8-13ft range which still command tons of respect, you can never allow yourself to forget what the animal is capable of should it choose to.

I totally dont mean to put down your idea of getting a retic, they are very rewarding animals but there is a lot more to consider. It looks like your taking the initiative to ask these questions though :gj:.

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Originally Posted by OctagonGecko729

Pretty important points brought up already.

I'd like to add that this is a 10+ year time investment your taking on. So do you have folks that for 10+ years can be there everytime you interact with the animal? This isnt just handling, this is any interaction.

Super Dwarfs that are 100% from Travis Kubes are like $300-500 so thats pretty cheap as snakes go. Also as an above poster mentioned, that mainland might be $100 or less initially but in the end your talking lots of big rabbits and a 10ft cage for females. I'm sure someone on here knows more then I do but I think a 3lb rabbit is like $7-12.

Of course, personally i dont really dig the super small retics. I like retics in the 8-13ft range which still command tons of respect, you can never allow yourself to forget what the animal is capable of should it choose to.

I totally dont mean to put down your idea of getting a retic, they are very rewarding animals but there is a lot more to consider. It looks like your taking the initiative to ask these questions though :gj:.

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I have people that would be around most the time but over a 10+ year period, there is bound to be time when I am alone. $300-500 isn't bad. I also cannot bring myself to feed rabbits period. It would have to be chickens, rats, quail, or guinea pigs. This would be because I breed Netherland Dwarf rabbits. I love how the big ones look and such 10+ feet. But being a girl who is not even 5 feet. I know that I alone would be no match at all should something ever happen. Not that many people would be. But a bigger person would stand a better chance so to say. The biggest snake I have owned and handled myself was a 7 1/2 foot BCI. Which I have to say I kept myself very much on my toes because she was a big girl. I always try to leave very little room for error. I tried to make sure somebody was always around when I had her out. In case something were to happen. Regardless, I think due to my size and stuff I may be better with a super dwarf. Even though I like the big ones better. :(

My issue here OP, is that you claim to have all the means to care for a mainland - that is a very expensive animal. Housing over the years, feeding...those things are very costly for an adult retic. Much more so than the difference of a couple hundred bucks for an SD. If you can't afford an SD, you definitely can't afford a mainland. I don't mean to sound brash, but you clearly didn't think that through too well.

I would say to save up for the SD, which in the long run will be much less expensive. Definitely.

Edit: Good choice. The SD makes more sense. It's all the personality at a more manageable size. :gj:

*kicks myself in the head* why must Jay continue putting this idea out there . . . its marketing . . . as has been said. The topics been covered I just wanted to drive that home. ITS MARKETING.

If you like big snakes, get a big snake, but don't try and force it to stay small. If you can't properly take care of a big snake, get a small snake and visit a big snake at reptile shows or a friends place when you can.

I have a super dwarf platinum retic girl who is 10' and I just gave her a bath . . . it's a handful and I'm 6'3. Not to mention tomorrow's feeding day so she half expected food when I opened the cage and lunged out a solid 4' from the cage. Retics are a beast of their own, super dwarfs are no exception! Make sure you go visit some adults before starting this venture. I'd suggest picking up a pure superdwarf female. Will get big enough, look nice enough, and will gladly stay on rats its entire life.

Hey OP,

I dig the enthusiasm. I've seen a few of your posts on the RTB forum here. Here's the deal, and again take NO offense because its just advice. Snakes, as you know are very complex animals. More so than most know. The species you are looking at here is IMO one of the most "hands on", full attention required types out there.

I'm not by any means an expert, but,,, at 17, and 17 is not a bad thing, you just can't possibly know where and what you'll be doing 2, 3, 10 years down the road. School, boyfriend/girlfriend, new interests, new hobbies, jobs or lack of work and the possibility that the people that say they'll help you with the snake will not always being there, are all things to consider.

You made some intelligent comments on the RTB forum in regard to the 19 year old that popped up for about a month, then had snake medical issues, money trouble and after several people said "reptile vet", they never posted again. I wonder why??

I'll say this about any snake, or pet in general: IF, you don't have ALL of the means, money, equipment, time, and help to take care of a certain animal, don't get it. Reptile Experts made a great point about going to visit a big snake instead of owning one. It might be the way to go.

Now, after saying all that, you still may be able to go the SD route. The front end expense VS the lesser down the road feeding cost surely balances out.

And $300-$350 (if I read that right) for something like that is a nice deal.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Chaoticpythons

But I can't handle more then 10-12 feet of snake (I am not even 5').

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Good thing there's at least 30 or more species of pythons and boas that are under 10 feet long, amirite? If you really want a retic, you'll find it worth your time to save up some money for the dwarves.

I fully hope my female gets to be 25', and that's why I got mainlands. I have yellow anacondas for kinda big, boas for smaller snakes, and balls and bloods for even smaller yet. If you want a small snake, stick with the smaller snakes. If you want a monster, get a retic or green annie.


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

I hate to put this out there, and in no way am suggesting it is ok, but in situations like this I wonder how many people keep knives or whatever near when they handle their large snakes alone. Not that anyone would ever want to harm their pet but when it would come down to them or the snake the answer would be obvious. Again I'm not suggesting that it is ok, nor do I or would I own a large snake unless I could get someone else to be there with me to handle it. Just kinda putting it out there as I'm sure it happens more than people would like to say. On that note the pet store I frequent recently stopped buying from one of their local breeders because, long story short, word got to the pet store that the breeder got bit and wrapped up (to an unknown extent to me....possibly just his arm) by one of his larger boas and he ended up slamming the boa against the wall a few times until he thought it was dead....well it turns out it never did die. Sorry for dragging that out but I just thought it was worth mentioning the mentality of some snake keepers.

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Originally Posted by schoch79

I hate to put this out there, and in no way am suggesting it is ok, but in situations like this I wonder how many people keep knives or whatever near when they handle their large snakes alone. Not that anyone would ever want to harm their pet but when it would come down to them or the snake the answer would be obvious. Again I'm not suggesting that it is ok, nor do I or would I own a large snake unless I could get someone else to be there with me to handle it. Just kinda putting it out there as I'm sure it happens more than people would like to say. On that note the pet store I frequent recently stopped buying from one of their local breeders because, long story short, word got to the pet store that the breeder got bit and wrapped up (to an unknown extent to me....possibly just his arm) by one of his larger boas and he ended up slamming the boa against the wall a few times until he thought it was dead....well it turns out it never did die. Sorry for dragging that out but I just thought it was worth mentioning the mentality of some snake keepers.

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He did that with a boa?? I don't think even my biggest girl could cause me a big enough problem where I would have to physically harm her. Now maybe my biggest anaconda, ya, she's capable, but I only solo handle her, not home alone. Always someone capable in the house...


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Originally Posted by schoch79

I hate to put this out there, and in no way am suggesting it is ok, but in situations like this I wonder how many people keep knives or whatever near when they handle their large snakes alone. Not that anyone would ever want to harm their pet but when it would come down to them or the snake the answer would be obvious. Again I'm not suggesting that it is ok, nor do I or would I own a large snake unless I could get someone else to be there with me to handle it. Just kinda putting it out there as I'm sure it happens more than people would like to say. On that note the pet store I frequent recently stopped buying from one of their local breeders because, long story short, word got to the pet store that the breeder got bit and wrapped up (to an unknown extent to me....possibly just his arm) by one of his larger boas and he ended up slamming the boa against the wall a few times until he thought it was dead....well it turns out it never did die. Sorry for dragging that out but I just thought it was worth mentioning the mentality of some snake keepers.

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so why did the pet store stop buying from that breeder? i don't get the reasoning here. is it because the breeder hurt the boa? in that situation any human being would do the same if they thought the snake is overpowering them.

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Originally Posted by schoch79

I hate to put this out there, and in no way am suggesting it is ok, but in situations like this I wonder how many people keep knives or whatever near when they handle their large snakes alone. Not that anyone would ever want to harm their pet but when it would come down to them or the snake the answer would be obvious. Again I'm not suggesting that it is ok, nor do I or would I own a large snake unless I could get someone else to be there with me to handle it. Just kinda putting it out there as I'm sure it happens more than people would like to say. On that note the pet store I frequent recently stopped buying from one of their local breeders because, long story short, word got to the pet store that the breeder got bit and wrapped up (to an unknown extent to me....possibly just his arm) by one of his larger boas and he ended up slamming the boa against the wall a few times until he thought it was dead....well it turns out it never did die. Sorry for dragging that out but I just thought it was worth mentioning the mentality of some snake keepers.

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Killing the animal is almost never necessary. Snakes don't have contempt for humans and want to kill them. If they did, you would see mainlands regularly killing their keepers. These animals are so much more powerful then a human there isn't a single thing you could do if it wanted to kill you.

The reality is that every time a snake constricts a human it has mistaken it is a food source. Many have dubbed this as a SFE (stupid feeding error). It is always the keepers fault when this happens. Since these animals only constrict humans when they mistake them for food all you need to do is "un-mistake" them.

This can be done by keeping 40%+ alchohal in a spray bottle or using Listerine mouthwash in a spray bottle. Spraying this in their mouth burns and tingles just like it does humans who have never come into contact with the substances. It is like a smack right to their senses and they will recoil with vigor. This can sometimes be done by dunking animals in cold water quickly as well. If this doesn't snap them out of it then yes you can reach down and break a tail tip, this will also cause them to recoil from you. "I" also would never recommend someone to keep a animal that is 8ft+ without another capable person in the house that is available to be in the room every time you interact with the animal (cleaning, feeding, handling).

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Originally Posted by schoch79

I hate to put this out there, and in no way am suggesting it is ok, but in situations like this I wonder how many people keep knives or whatever near when they handle their large snakes alone. Not that anyone would ever want to harm their pet but when it would come down to them or the snake the answer would be obvious. Again I'm not suggesting that it is ok, nor do I or would I own a large snake unless I could get someone else to be there with me to handle it. Just kinda putting it out there as I'm sure it happens more than people would like to say. On that note the pet store I frequent recently stopped buying from one of their local breeders because, long story short, word got to the pet store that the breeder got bit and wrapped up (to an unknown extent to me....possibly just his arm) by one of his larger boas and he ended up slamming the boa against the wall a few times until he thought it was dead....well it turns out it never did die. Sorry for dragging that out but I just thought it was worth mentioning the mentality of some snake keepers.

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I've heard that pepper spray can be used if the person knows their life really is in danger. Safer alternative than a knife or the wall for both parties involved.

Or the alternative mentioned above.

If one of my big girls bit and coiled me, as long as it wasn't in a vital area I wouldn't freak out. That's the worse thing you can do with a large constrictor. Ever jiggled and pulled on a rabbit when an anaconda is coiled? Good way to make a mess real fast, because they coil up SUPER tight when you do it.


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

I fully hope my female gets to be 25', and that's why I got mainlands. I have yellow anacondas for kinda big, boas for smaller snakes, and balls and bloods for even smaller yet. If you want a small snake, stick with the smaller snakes. If you want a monster, get a retic or green annie.


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Your snake will never get 25'. 25' is a lie, no snake has ever been that big or close. The largest on record is 22' 9", that's beyond rare, expect a max of 18-20 if you're lucky, more like 14-16 as a female.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

*kicks myself in the head* why must Jay continue putting this idea out there . . . its marketing . . . as has been said. The topics been covered I just wanted to drive that home. ITS MARKETING.

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Because... Jay is accurate and correct in his information. You don't need to power feed the animal or feed it heavy. I'm sure snakes stay 10-12 foot in the wild and breed and produce. Retics don't have to be monsters unless you make them as such.

If a 10'+ animal is too much for you alone, retics are not for you.

I handle every animal up to my 18' 140lb tiger alone every day (someone is nearby, but they don't help).

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Because... Jay is accurate and correct in his information. You don't need to power feed the animal or feed it heavy. I'm sure snakes stay 10-12 foot in the wild and breed and produce.

I handle every animal up to my 18' 140lb tiger alone every day (someone is nearby, but they don't help).

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haha ok - I'm going to raise a turtle in a soap dish now because it will never outgrow its cage!!! Stunting an animals growth is as detrimental as powerfeeding it to grow faster. They CAN do these things, but its not how they are and not how it will happen every time. If you want to control its growth, get a dwarf or super dwarf, if you want a big snake, get a Sulawesi . . . its locality and fact, not marketing and hopeless fiction.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Your snake will never get 25'. 25' is a lie, no snake has ever been that big or close. The largest on record is 22' 9", that's beyond rare, expect a max of 18-20 if you're lucky, more like 14-16 as a female.


Because... Jay is accurate and correct in his information. You don't need to power feed the animal or feed it heavy. I'm sure snakes stay 10-12 foot in the wild and breed and produce. Retics don't have to be monsters unless you make them as such.

If a 10'+ animal is too much for you alone, retics are not for you.

I handle every animal up to my 18' 140lb tiger alone every day (someone is nearby, but they don't help).

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You are greatly mistaken. I personally held a 22' female last night. While it's not 25', she is still young.

The largest ON RECORD is 33'. The largest living retic is 25'. I'm lost as to why this is a lie??


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Your snake will never get 25'. 25' is a lie, no snake has ever been that big or close. The largest on record is 22' 9", that's beyond rare, expect a max of 18-20 if you're lucky, more like 14-16 as a female.


Because... Jay is accurate and correct in his information. You don't need to power feed the animal or feed it heavy. I'm sure snakes stay 10-12 foot in the wild and breed and produce. Retics don't have to be monsters unless you make them as such.

If a 10'+ animal is too much for you alone, retics are not for you.

I handle every animal up to my 18' 140lb tiger alone every day (someone is nearby, but they don't help).

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Have you ever been to Prehistoric Pets? I wouldn't believe anything that guy had to say about caring for animals. Every animal in his "Zoo" was sick, in an undersized cage, the list goes on.

Just another question for the retic expert on this thread...

Why do you handle your 18' retic everyday? And alone at that?

An 18' animal is more than capable of killing you. Why risk making large constrictors look even worse than they do with irresponsible handling practices?


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

much like zoos . . . we ask that you please do not feed the trolls . . .

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

haha ok - I'm going to raise a turtle in a soap dish now because it will never outgrow its cage!!! Stunting an animals growth is as detrimental as powerfeeding it to grow faster. They CAN do these things, but its not how they are and not how it will happen every time. If you want to control its growth, get a dwarf or super dwarf, if you want a big snake, get a Sulawesi . . . its locality and fact, not marketing and hopeless fiction.

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There's a difference between stunting, and simply feeding smaller and less meals. Go take a survey of retics in the wild. You think most of them hit 18'+ for the average female? NO. In some cases- sure, but the majority you will find stay significantly smaller, and yes- they will eventually get big, it takes SIGNIFICANTLY longer than what we can achieve in a captive setting.

Control of its growth get SD. LOL. Ever see Gaspars huge jamp? Granted that's not an SD- but it's considered a dwarf, yet if you feed a jamp heavy enough, guess what- you can get a 14ft animal pretty easily, even larger with Gaspars biggest female over 17', while locality does play a role, so does feeding. If you think a wild sula eats anywhere near what we feed it in captivity in the wild- you need to get a clue and do a field study- because you are MASSIVELY mistaken.

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

You are greatly mistaken. I personally held a 22' female last night. While it's not 25', she is still young.

The largest ON RECORD is 33'. The largest living retic is 25'. I'm lost as to why this is a lie??


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Proof of the 22' female? Do tell!

33' record, proof please!

Largest living retic? Let me guess, you listen to guiness! Baby was quoted over 20ft, but upon death measured like 17'? Fluffy was quoted at 24 or 25, but measured was what, 21? I can't remember the exact figures down to the inches, but guiness is a laughing stock among the real retic keeping community, and anyone who believes 33', 25', etc is delusional, hell, I can prove medusa is only a 20-21ft animal just with the snake measuring widget, and anyone who has ANY real retic experience (more than having a handful of animals) knows that animal is NOT as big as claimed.

Go to facebook, have a nice chat with Steve Dawson, he has animals above and around the 21' mark, and you'd be astonished at how big even those are, and how massively exaggerated size is among big snake keepers, his are all dead accurate, and not exaggerated.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Have you ever been to Prehistoric Pets? I wouldn't believe anything that guy had to say about caring for animals. Every animal in his "Zoo" was sick, in an undersized cage, the list goes on.

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Undersized cage really, do tell me about your extensive knowledge of retic care. I guess Jay, Bob Clark, Nerd, all use cages too small! I've seen the blueprints for their cages and building, cages are fine, and I think their tract record is testament of that.

So what- you think they are wrong, I can give you 50 that love PP for every 1 person that thinks PP is horrible.

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

Just another question for the retic expert on this thread...

Why do you handle your 18' retic everyday? And alone at that?

An 18' animal is more than capable of killing you. Why risk making large constrictors look even worse than they do with irresponsible handling practices?


I like my Dubstep to go Wop Wop Wop Wop

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Alone- because I am the only able bodied male in the house, I'm not having my 105lb wife near an animal that weighs more than her, and upkeep NEEDS to be done.

Is she capable of killing me? Yes, she sure is. So are 2 of my dogs (soon 3). So are my neighbors horses, the livestock I work with. I drive to run errands, my car is capable of killing me, so are my firearms.

Just because something is capable of killing me, doesn't mean it will, it's highly unlikely. I'm very careful with my animals, and I KNOW my animals very well, and I am more than confident in my abilities with my animals.

Safety measures are always in place, should anything going wrong (because every once in a wild blue moon) something happens, it's BEYOND rare that a retic has a problem that results in death- but I have protocol in line for if that ever happens.

I like all the google experts with small collections of immature animals making silly claims and outlandish suggestions on retic husbandry- it's truly amusing and I appreciate the humor.

I will add- I'm being bashed by people that have 1-2 retics, both young (whoopy), someone with NO retics, and someone with 10, none of which are large animals (I've seen you post pictures plenty of times).

I would hardly take any of these guy's opinion and put any merit on them OP.

I was just at PP they have two tegus in a 4 foot enclosure...all their retics at the store are in cages that I wouldnt put a bp in...I have seen you post about ptoperly caring for monitors in proper enclosures with proper subsrate...PP was absolutley terrible...roaches in each cage, mouth rot on their snakes...exposed bulbs in monitor cages with no substate...mites on their snakes...moldy torn up carpet...fecal matter in all their cages...a red tail boa in the same cage as 3 yellow anacondas..yup perfect husbandry...it has mothing tocdo with my experience with retics because I havr none...however it doesn't take a retic expert to know when improper husbandry is being used...would you put two adult rhino iguanas in a 4 foot cage? Because I sure as hell wouldn't...so you show me one person that had actually been to PPs store in person and thought it was ok and I will show you someone that has no business owning any animal.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I was just at PP they have two tegus in a 4 foot enclosure...all their retics at the store are in cages that I wouldnt put a bp in...I have seen you post about ptoperly caring for monitors in proper enclosures with proper subsrate...PP was absolutley terrible...roaches in each cage, mouth rot on their snakes...exposed bulbs in monitor cages with no substate...mites on their snakes...moldy torn up carpet...fecal matter in all their cages...a red tail boa in the same cage as 3 yellow anacondas..yup perfect husbandry...it has mothing tocdo with my experience with retics because I havr none...however it doesn't take a retic expert to know when improper husbandry is being used...would you put two adult rhino iguanas in a 4 foot cage? Because I sure as hell wouldn't...so you show me one person that had actually been to PPs store in person and thought it was ok and I will show you someone that has no business owning any animal.

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Here you are naming off problems with other species- which is IRRELEVANT in retic keeping. I never said they are great with tegus, iguana, boa, etc. I said retics, and most of their retics are in great condition.

As for mites- mites happen, they aren't a big deal, it's hard to manage in a facility like that.

Mouth rot- if it was in a retic, it's likely pushing damage, not mouth rot, which is a common novice mistake, pushing happens in retics, it's part of life.

Make comparisons relating to their retic care, or don't make them.

Their retics were in terrible condition again at the STORE it doesn't matter if its not a retic if their care of other animals is bad why would you support them? I also am well aware of what mouth rot looks like some monitors had mouth rot some had push marks some had bloody burn marks...tons of their snakes had mouth rot...so that being said it doesn't matter if I'm not a retic expert you are right I'm not...I am just speaking on the quality of care for their animals in general...again no animal deserves to be mistreated...and I have seen posts where you go off on people for having a monitor in glass enclosures...guess what his care for monitors was terrible...but that's fine go ahead amd support someone like that. I sure won't.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

Here you are naming off problems with other species- which is IRRELEVANT in retic keeping.

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But it does reflect on their ability to maintain husbandry and properly care for their animals, which does involve the retics.

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I never said they are great with tegus, iguana, boa, etc. I said retics, and most of their retics are in great condition.

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Most.....
Key word.

I'm sorry, but if they can't care for *all* of their animals properly, that doesn't make them good keepers or breeders.

So some random guy vs many of my trusted friends who have seen the facility.

Who would I trust more?

I'm not saying their monitor care is good, it could be awful for all I know. I'm not debating that.

The retics I've purchased from them (I have several), the retics I've seen from them, all the breeding facility shots (from more than just them) have all led me to never question their RETIC husbandry.

I know a hell of a lot about retics, and monitors, but you don't see me over in the iguana forum playing expert telling people they don't know anything because they keep their ball python wrong. You're drawing parallels that are COMPLETELY wrong.

Hell, my local zoo- garbage reptile care, but they produce a hell of a lot of giraffes and have an amazing track record with them.

Maybe now you see the difference?

I will also add his "store" charges a 5 dollar admission to visit the "zoo" where you can observe "proper husbandry and care for exotic animals...so if joe shmo walks in with his kids and sees that its "ok" to house these animals like this because this is a how a reputable breeder is housing them...the another animal suffers amd more bad light gets shined on our hobby and community...the employees also gave advice like "burmese pythons and retics make great beginner pets as long as you get them as babies" that's terrible advice to give to someone...I know I am in now way capable of working with and caring for these large animals...but someone that doesn't know better is why these animals end up on craigslist.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

But it does reflect on their ability to maintain husbandry and properly care for their animals, which does involve the retics.

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No, one can be completely mislead about monitor husbandry, and do a horrible job with a monitor, but be a phenomenal retic keeper- I've seen it MULTIPLE times- where top of the line retic breeders have monitors in visions. Th

That doesn't mean they are bad with retics, it means they are bad with monitors.

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Most.....
Key word.

I'm sorry, but if they can't care for *all* of their animals properly, that doesn't make them good keepers or breeders.

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Most- because if you had any clue about retics- you would have a clue that retics find ways to mess themselves up.

This fall, you could have come into my retic room, and claimed I know nothing about retics, because I have a male that will push RELENTLESSLY all the time, no matter what you do (no matter cage size, climate, diet), and his face looked HORRIBLE.

It's beyond hard to keep a retic collection in perfect shape, because retics are pushers who have bad sheds and love to make a mess of their cages.

This doesn't reflect on them in the way you think.

Again you keeps saying their breeding facility...which is not their store front...I can tell you for a fact their store front is terrible...sure I'm some random guy you don't know but a quick search of the BOI and multiple reviews from herp sites running a google search shows everyone saying the same thing as I am...I am not claiming to be a retic expert I am just making people aware of the fact thst just because someome can produce beautiful animals doesn't mean they care for them properly...and to me that is not ok no animal should be mistreated.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I will also add his "store" charges a 5 dollar admission to visit the "zoo" where you can observe "proper husbandry and care for exotic animals...so if joe shmo walks in with his kids and sees that its "ok" to house these animals like this because this is a how a reputable breeder is housing them...the another animal suffers amd more bad light gets shined on our hobby and community...the employees also gave advice like "burmese pythons and retics make great beginner pets as long as you get them as babies" that's terrible advice to give to someone...I know I am in now way capable of working with and caring for these large animals...but someone that doesn't know better is why these animals end up on craigslist.

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Lol.

75% of this hobby gives a bad light, you think this is special. Maybe PP has some bad hourly workers. I know and I talk to Jay and Tim for my questions, no one else, I don't use the front desk if I have a question- they have always taken great care of me, given great advice, and always seem to be very knowledgeable.

Burms and retics are not bad beginner pets, they aren't for the feint of heart, but as I've told multiple people- I trust my retics more than I trust your average shelter dog (a typical first pet), if you know what you're doing, and do it right, with the right advice, a retic is a fantastic pet animal.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

Again you keeps saying their breeding facility...which is not their store front...I can tell you for a fact their store front is terrible...sure I'm some random guy you don't know but a quick search of the BOI and multiple reviews from herp sites running a google search shows everyone saying the same thing as I am...I am not claiming to be a retic expert I am just making people aware of the fact thst just because someome can produce beautiful animals doesn't mean they care for them properly...and to me that is not ok no animal should be mistreated.

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I deal with the breeding facility.

Most people who order a retic from them online, get them from the same facility.

The reptile zoo/PP storefront are 2 very different things. I've never been in the storefront, nor plan to, never talked to hourly employees etc.

I base all my information based on their retic breeding facility, which is overseen and ran by Jay and Tim, and they do a great job.

I'm not debating a retic is a fantastic animal I have great respect for these animals...all animals...but I respectfully have to disagree that telling someone that has never worked with a snake larger than a bp with a 5 year old son makes a great first pet

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You are missing my point...how many people that are looking for a first time reptile know to contact the breeding facility...their breeding facility may be great it may be top notch...but if they can't take care of the animals in their store front and they get neglected then he needs to be more hands on eith his store.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

I'm not debating a retic is a fantastic animal I have great respect for these animals...all animals...but I respectfully have to disagree that telling someone that has never worked with a snake larger than a bp with a 5 year old son makes a great first pet

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So we went from a beginner pet, to suddenly a beginner pet for a 5 year old?

2 COMPLETELY different things. For me, as a 23 year old adult, a retic would be a suitable first time pet. For a 5 year old? A hamster is about it.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

You are missing my point...how many people that are looking for a first time reptile know to contact the breeding facility...their breeding facility may be great it may be top notch...but if they can't take care of the animals in their store front and they get neglected then he needs to be more hands on eith his store.

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Most of the people who want to buy a retic from them don't use the storefront. They use fauna, kingsnake etc.

The OP was asking for advice on retics. I backed advice given from Jay Brewer at PP, who has tremendous retic experience. The condition of their storefront is irrelevant to the OPs question.

First of all no not for a 5 year old...but I have a 5 year old in my house...who loves reptiles and is hands on with what we have...and the employees are saying oh its great for your family...I am done trying to prove my point...I have seen first hand how they care for their animals and I choose to not support someone that neglects animals because they aren't their main money maker. But you are right and I am wrong... I am off topic at this point. Have a nice night. Good luck OP who if I am correct isn't even 18 yet.

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I have a 6 week old child in my house.

I do presentations with my large snakes with young children- because it's part of what got me started in the area I am now.

If done properly, with proper locks on the cage- why is a 5 year old a problem?

I have no problems with educational programs and my son loves those programs. However keeping one at home, especially if I have never owned one before or anything larger than a BP and am learning about them, at some point I (as an owner) may make a mistake or the snake may decide to strike and if that happens, I as a parent don't want to have to worry about myself, the snake, and my son in the same room. I believe a large snake needs to be worked up to...I also feel that a full grown yellow anaconda can be a hand full (personal opinion not fact) and for that reason because accident can and do happen I don't believe it is a suitable first snake.

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Originally Posted by Dehlol

I will add- I'm being bashed by people that have 1-2 retics, both young (whoopy), someone with NO retics, and someone with 10, none of which are large animals (I've seen you post pictures plenty of times).

I would hardly take any of these guy's opinion and put any merit on them OP.

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I'm not going to bother reading your post from here on out. Don't take offense - but show me a little respect and perhaps you can get some in return. Please explain to me your knowledge of the species and growth rates based on evolution biology? Do you have a degree to back up your call outs of misinformation? I'm not going to throw my degrees at you, nor the fact that I'm more read and versed in this stuff than most. Yeah I know about Gaspers 16' pure Jamp female, I also know of Bob clarks 12' 50% SD crosses, even the 14' ones. Get a pure SD and it's a different story. You've seen my post and pictures? great. I do keep small because I work with dwarf and super dwarf retics and crosses. My largest is currently 13', and 3 others are 10', regardless of what your mission is here acting as Jay's little fan boy, take it else where.

I will not argue that retics can not be healthy being on the smaller side, but they are not evolved to be that way. They are evolved on the mainland (which is still an island mind you) to be top predators and reach good size. Yeah, I've read numerous scientific papers on growth studies, diet, and retics vs the locals. I've put my mind where my mouth is and studied this stuff because it is something that drives my actual passion for this hobby. Sorry, is 10 not enough? It is for me. . . I have more to life than sitting around cleaning urine all day which is pretty much what I do when I'm home with the 10 I have.

Now please, if you feel the need to insult me, go right ahead. But don't expect me to take into consideration anything you have to say in regards to this matter.

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Originally Posted by reptileexperts

I'm not going to bother reading your post from here on out. Don't take offense - but show me a little respect and perhaps you can get some in return. Please explain to me your knowledge of the species and growth rates based on evolution biology? Do you have a degree to back up your call outs of misinformation? I'm not going to throw my degrees at you, nor the fact that I'm more read and versed in this stuff than most. Yeah I know about Gaspers 16' pure Jamp female, I also know of Bob clarks 12' 50% SD crosses, even the 14' ones. Get a pure SD and it's a different story. You've seen my post and pictures? great. I do keep small because I work with dwarf and super dwarf retics and crosses. My largest is currently 13', and 3 others are 10', regardless of what your mission is here acting as Jay's little fan boy, take it else where.

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Why would I show you any respect, when you come in and show one of the biggest names in the industry no respect- based on your VAST knowledge of owning a small handful of tiny retics that are SD/D crosses, yet you somehow think you are in any league to argue with some of the biggest names in the business.

Based on what? Owning a few animals and doing some google reading? In that case I could be a tractor expert!

Pure SD can get some decent size if you feed it heavy enough, so can crosses, so can XYZ. That doesn't mean it should, that doesn't mean it should be fed like it should.

Tell me, do you honestly think a retic in the wild eats similar to the animals we keep in captivity? Are you that Naive? Have you ever seen pictures straight out of the skinning factories, of animals caught IN THE WILD? Smaller retics turn up often, in the 10-14' range, this seems about average for a mature adult in the wild. Will they eventually grow much larger, sure, is it common? nope, huge retics are a rarity in the wild, and they need a lot of factors lining up to grow to a monster size- one that is EASILY achievable in a captive setting.

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I will not argue that retics can not be healthy being on the smaller side, but they are not evolved to be that way. They are evolved on the mainland (which is still an island mind you) to be top predators and reach good size. Yeah, I've read numerous scientific papers on growth studies, diet, and retics vs the locals. I've put my mind where my mouth is and studied this stuff because it is something that drives my actual passion for this hobby. Sorry, is 10 not enough? It is for me. . . I have more to life than sitting around cleaning urine all day which is pretty much what I do when I'm home with the 10 I have.

Now please, if you feel the need to insult me, go right ahead. But don't expect me to take into consideration anything you have to say in regards to this matter.

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I insult you because you know nothing, you admit- your animals are not mainland animals, but here you are speaking on mainland animals. Here you are claiming knowledge of an animal you don't have vast experience in- because... "you've read some papers etc"

Yet somehow you feel you know more than someone who has based his living and his life raising mainland retics on a large scale, who has an impressive collection, someone who knows his stuff pretty darn well.

A mainland female if you want it big can hit 18-20ft, a mainland male, if you feed heavy enough- an average of 14-16ft for a massive male. Of course, sometimes animals are the exception to this and get larger, but it certainly is not commonplace.

A mainland female, if you feed it on average 14-16ft, a male, 10-14ft.

A mainland female, if you want to keep it manageable: 12-14ft, males 8-10ft, and there is NOTHING wrong with them being this size, frankly from all the animals pulled from the wild I've seen, and pictures directly from the field, this seems about average for an adult retic- and it's pretty common practice to keep males that size anyway.

I'm not advocating you starve the animal to keep it tiny, but you certainly don't have to shoot for an massive snake just because it's a retic.