Which three morphs to start with?

Hey guys!

I've decided that ball pythons will be the next species I add to my collection (I know, I know... being here on bp.net it should be a given that I get ball pythons. :P) and I have come to you gurus for advice on which morphs to acquire first. I am not planning on breeding immediately, but want the animals I buy to be both good to look at (i.e. pretty enough to enjoy them) but also good base morphs for a collection when I do start breeding.

At present, I'm considering starting with a group of 3 females.. Grow them for a year or so, then decide if I want to buy a male and begin breeding.

That said, I love most of the morphs out there, but these are my favorites: Pastel, black pastel / cinnamon, fire, enchi, calico/sugar, mojave, butter/lesser, and pinstripe. I tend to like anything with a lot of contrast and my "dream snake" right now is a calico / sugar pastel.

Considering that I will be getting a male (in theory) for breeding, I'm trying to decide which three morph females to start with. I've narrowed it down to some options and would like your feedback. I'd like to keep the total for all three around $600, then spend more on the male when I get to that point.

1. Pastel / enchi / fire (I know enchi / fire are good ad-ins for morphs, but don't know if they look good on their own)
2. Mojave / butter / lesser (like all, but don't know which is best to start with)
3. Cinnamon / black pastel (don't know which look better as adults)

Please let me know if you have any suggestions or advice and thanks for your time / help!
Artgecko

butter/lesser or mojave. and pinstripe. combine these and you get emperor pins or jigsaws, and these are just awesome.

calico/sugar. i say they are the same morph, so i suggest you look for both, and when you find a really nice one, it doesnt make a difference, just pick a nice calico or sugar.

well, seems like i already picked 3. butter/lesser or mojave, pinstripe, and calico/sugar. spider is fine, it brings with it the wobble, but i think pinstripe is just better.

in many combos, it wont hurt to have pastel in it as a bonus, but on their own they most often brown out and they get less impressive with age. pastel is the most common morph of all of them, and one of the oldest, but i see it gradually falling out of fashion.

fire stays the same or even gets better with age. enchi, on its own, also ages quite well because it is primarily a pattern morph, but in combos it does insane things. for example, champagne typically erases all pattern, add enchi and the pattern comes back. or super fire, its a white snake, most often with random yellow patches along the dorsal. add enchi, and these yellow areas get dark outlines. super enchi even overwhelms piebald, and super enchi pieds are typically very low white.

so many choices, and with the current prices, getting two-gene female hatchlings is a real possibility.

Fire spider sugar. Then add a pastel lesser male. All sorts if good stuff there. If you can get pastel with any of the first three....even better. That's what I'd do

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Its gonna be hard to keep 3 of those females under 600 ... u should up ur money n do it right from the beginning ... get all ur females double gened and then when its male time get a 3 gene male with all 3 genes in it u want to throw to ur 3 females ... for example u want a pastel sugar fire ... get a pastel sugar female .. and get a 3 gene male with fire in it .. so when u pair them u have that chance to hit ur pastel sugar fire ...

Or u can get all one gene females and 3 gene male ... that might be the way to go cause all those genes might get confusing to u in the beginning

enchi, fire, lesser.

With those three females you can make some amazing combos and they all look nice on their own, IMO.

Females: Enchi, Lesser or Mohave, Black Pastel
Male: Firefly, Super Pastel, or Super Fire

Females=yellow belly,fire,enchi
Males=sugar/calico,super pastel,spector

Pastel enchis are awesome and so are super stripes ,fireflys are awesome also

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Thanks guys for your input!
steve_r34- Honestly, if it was just me making a buying decision, that would be the way I'd go... But I have a non-reptile crazy husband to consider (he thinks $200 is a lot to pay for a snake even including shipping). I am also a little bit hesitant to start out with really expensive snakes, since I have not kept BPs before and want to "cut my teeth" before investing in a $500 animal, etc.

I do really like fires and enchis, just don't know much about them and have seen very few females of either for sale for reasonable prices.. They are not recessive genes, but seem to go for recessive single gene prices from what I've seen. Calicos/ Sugars are about the same... Would love to get one, but all the females I've seen are around the $400 mark..and that's not for stunning examples.

Hard one but using your list....

1. Pastel (I think everyone needs a good looking pastel in their collection but I think you should shoot for a super pastel or firefly if you can afford it)
2. Mojave (I would select a lesser combo for my male snake later on Lesser Enchi being top on my list)
3. Black Pastel ( I like the black squiggles in the the pattern of black pastels as opposed to cinnies plus the super version is a darker snake)

Purchase a lesser enchi male in the next two years and you will be in awesome shape for breeding.

Spider, Lesser & Pastel.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks guys for your input!
steve_r34- Honestly, if it was just me making a buying decision, that would be the way I'd go... But I have a non-reptile crazy husband to consider (he thinks $200 is a lot to pay for a snake even including shipping). I am also a little bit hesitant to start out with really expensive snakes, since I have not kept BPs before and want to "cut my teeth" before investing in a $500 animal, etc.

I do really like fires and enchis, just don't know much about them and have seen very few females of either for sale for reasonable prices.. They are not recessive genes, but seem to go for recessive single gene prices from what I've seen. Calicos/ Sugars are about the same... Would love to get one, but all the females I've seen are around the $400 mark..and that's not for stunning examples.

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If you have a facebook check out ben siegel reptiles auctions you can get enchi females for about 200 ive seen fire females go for about the same and also calico females go just a bit over 200 most of the time. Ive seen double gene males go for under 200 and triple genes a little more then 200. Oh and also if you win an auction then you pay $39 shipping for as many auctions as you win in 2 weeks then when your ready to ship just shoot them a message



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Quote:

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Originally Posted by artgecko

I do really like fires and enchis, just don't know much about them and have seen very few females of either for sale for reasonable prices.. They are not recessive genes, but seem to go for recessive single gene prices from what I've seen.

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Both fire and enchi add a lot to any combo. No matter what you add those two genes to the end result is better.

I definitely saw female enchis (hatchlings) for $200 at the last show I was at. Same with fires. I think if you head to a show or look around a bit on the net, you can find some decent quality examples of the genes for a decent price.

My short list suggestion is: Enchi, Fire, Lesser, or Black Pastel

Butter and Lesser is the same mutation, so you can get one or the other. Their coloration is quite lovely.

Fire and Enchi are irreplaceable genes in a collection. In my opinion, they make every other morph look better.

Thanks! I will check out siegel.. I will also look at shows. I am hoping to go to repticon in Atlanta this summer... If I don't buy then, I can at least check animals out. The last time I went I purchased my sand boa and hognose and barely looked at the BPs...Held some female pastels that were OK, but didn't look much at the other morphs.

If I can get an enchi or fire at a good price, I may do enchi or fire, calico or sugar, and a lesser or butter.

Thanks again for the information!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks! I will check out siegel.. I will also look at shows. I am hoping to go to repticon in Atlanta this summer... If I don't buy then, I can at least check animals out. The last time I went I purchased my sand boa and hognose and barely looked at the BPs...Held some female pastels that were OK, but didn't look much at the other morphs.

If I can get an enchi or fire at a good price, I may do enchi or fire, calico or sugar, and a lesser or butter.

Thanks again for the information!

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Ben siegel reptiles is right out of florida deer park i believe. He only offers top notch balls for the most part ive never been dissapointed with anything ive ever got from him i would love to go down to florida and check out his retail store

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I would get three single gene females mojave, butter, fire, enchi are all great choices. Then in a year or two get a nice 2-3 gene male with calico in it. Also prices for calico/sugar combos will be lower

I didn't know he was based in Florida. I'll have to see where he's close to. We regularly vacation at one of the beaches in FL each summer, so if he's close by, I might be able to convince my husband it's worth a trip.

BumbleB- That's a good point... I guess prices on morphs always get lower each year after introduction. I do want a visual calico / sugar just because I love the way they look, but if I wait, I might be able to get a pastel calico male at a better price.

I'd really like to get a male that has pastel as one of his genes, maybe a firefly (or the pastel calico mentioned above). Not sure if this would change the females I would want to buy or not (maybe look for an enchi female instead of a fire?).

Thanks again for all of the great advice!

Since u haven't seen many fires ill give u a example of to me a nice fire witch is mine lol .. but I love his reduced pattern n im sure as he grows he will lose the vibrant color but I have seen people post pics of there fires n there patterns look somewhat normal ... http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/17/u8u4avu7.jpg

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If i had a enchi id post .. maybe others can throw up some pics to help u out a bit

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if 200 per female is the limit, and since shipping is expensive, you also need to consider local breeders and reptile shows, where you can pick up BPs without shipping cost.

or maybe buy two from the same breeder. shipping one BP hatchling makes for a 90% empty box.

I dont have any plain enchis but i do have a desert enchi(tiger) just so you can see what enchis doew in a combohttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/a3yjy7uv.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/18/bygupyzu.jpg

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Thanks for the pics and info guys! The fire and desert enchi both look great!

I do have a show about 2 hours from me (the Atlanta repticon) and was hoping to attend in July, but not sure if I'll buy from there. My only issues with buying from a show would be getting snakes from different sources then not quaranting (I don't have separate t-stats, so they'd have to at least be in a room near each other) and the fact that I don't have a source for live food yet (planning on starting my colony after we get a house which will be sometime this year (hopefully).

I would love to get animals from a single breeder, but not sure if most people would have the ones I'm looking for at the same time to ship them together.

Thanks again for your help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Thanks for the pics and info guys! The fire and desert enchi both look great!

I do have a show about 2 hours from me (the Atlanta repticon) and was hoping to attend in July, but not sure if I'll buy from there. My only issues with buying from a show would be getting snakes from different sources then not quaranting (I don't have separate t-stats, so they'd have to at least be in a room near each other) and the fact that I don't have a source for live food yet (planning on starting my colony after we get a house which will be sometime this year (hopefully).

I would love to get animals from a single breeder, but not sure if most people would have the ones I'm looking for at the same time to ship them together.

Thanks again for your help!

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Best bet would be to get one or 2 from ben siegels auctions and try and pick em up at there store in florida and look around while your there im sure youll find a 3rd gene looking around


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for fun i just checked BHB reptiles, right now they have 7 pages full of female 2013.

i found a yellowbelly for 150, a spider for 175, a spotnose for 225, lemonblast (pinstripe pastel) 250, ghost 225, het albino or het vpi axanthic 150. all 2013 females.

im not saying these are the best prices, and like most big breeders he mostly has more expensive stuff, these are the cheapest i could find. at the right reptile show i think you can find more for less. just as a starting point, if you would pick yellowbelly, spotnose, and the lemonblast, that would be just slightly above your limit of 200 per female. and with 625 total price, im sure you could knock down the price quite a bit, when you ask friendly and maybe offer bank wire transfer instead of credit card, (sellers love bank wire transfer, many will happily give you a few percent off for that) and point out that they can be shipped together.

also breeders often have additional unlisted stuff, and thats often for reptile shows and in the lower prce category. also you can get good deals and save on shipping when you hook up with a reputable breeder prior to a reptile show, to put together a package deal and pick it up at the show.

if you invest time in research and writing some emails, good deals will become available.

or maybe hold it off for a little longer and invest in equipment until you move to the new house in a few months.

Females - Pinstripe, Lesser and black pastel
male - Super pastel Mojave

That way you get great combos and no normals. All are pretty reasonable