Just a thought....................

Most that breed have no use for normal males and to be honest the normal females are almost as worthless.
My question is: How many more years will it be before a normals price sky rockets in value??
At some point some of these powerhouses that are being produced will need to be broken down to prove whats in them, right?
I know there are already multiple gene snakes out there that you cannot tell exactly whats in them anymore.
Just food for thought LoL

Id say never. If not a very long time ever pet store that has snakes I see more normal then I do mix. now once you can get a Banana Pastel Ball Python for 25.00-50.00 then you may see a drop in them

Right...LOL...look what happened to the corn snake!

i dont think it will happen.

there is a very large wild population in africa, and there are breeding farms in africa that are connected to the wild population, and tens of thousands of normal wild-type hatchlings are being exported to places all around the planet. i dont see how that could change, they sell them for maybe 5 dollars per hatchling and are able to put together shipments of thousands of normal hatchlings. so the african exporters have a strong position in the market, and normal BPs with african wild-type genetics are their product. often they could not switch to morphs even if they wanted, because the semi-captive breeding population intermingles with the wild population and which BP mates with which isnt in human control.

so i think normals will always be available in large quantities and at low prices. the guys in africa are professional and reliable and have the best prices, and they supply big pet store chains around the world. unless breeders outside africa manage to put together shipments of 2000 morph BPs at a time at ridiculously low prices, the normals out of africa will simply maintain their prime position in the market.

I think you may be on to something, it may not happen for a few years, but what if the feds outlaw importation of exotic animals?
The pet shops will be buying at least 70% of the normal bp's produced here and then you would see a price increase.
If you can't see the feds banning importation, you haven't been looking!
I'm holding some normal girls back!

My opinion is that any normal ball with all the fuss it takes to get them feeding and established should go for anywhere between 50-100 bucks for hatchlings. But as long as you have cheap imports it's never going to happen.

But then of course you'll have all those SCUMBAGS and MARKET CRASHERS destroying the price on normals, MY GOD WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END?????? :O:rolleye2::eyepoppin:frustrate

(sorry, for a minute there I thought I was on another forum... :D)

There's a possibility to get normals in every clutch. "just food for thought". LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Most that breed have no use for normal males and to be honest the normal females are almost as worthless.

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I'm sure your not saying the animals are worthless,
I wouldn't want a member reading your post thinking they spent their hard earned money on a "worthless " animal
Normals are the start for most of us and for that reason they have value.
Your opinions and status are respected here so please clarify what you meant.

I guess this would happen if every breeder who hit on normals, euthanized them right out of the egg. No one would have them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

There's a possibility to get normals in every clutch. "just food for thought". LOL

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Think again.............. I will make it as simple as it could be Super Pastel X Normal = no normal ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brock lesser

I'm sure your not saying the animals are worthless,
I wouldn't want a member reading your post thinking they spent their hard earned money on a "worthless " animal
Normals are the start for most of us and for that reason they have value.
Your opinions and status are respected here so please clarify what you meant.

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Might want to look at that sentence again ........... show me a breeder that wants to holdback any of his normal males unless it might have something funky going on.

- - - Updated - - -

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

I guess this would happen if every breeder who hit on normals, euthanized them right out of the egg. No one would have them.

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I know people that feed them off to their kings, usually only if it has something wrong with it but still the same.

I thought you get half normals half pastels.

I think there should be a place where people can send their normals and then those people give them away to people who just want a pet or a kid who is getting a first snake or something like that.

Plus look at all the snakes need to make something out of snake skin and I have only seen normal bp skin used for this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Think again.............. I will make it as simple as it could be Super Pastel X Normal = no normal ;)



Might want to look at that sentence again ........... show me a breeder that wants to holdback any of his normal males unless it might have something funky going on.

- - - Updated - - -

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I caught your meaning just wanted it clear to everyone .
As a breeder no I won't be holding back any normals but I will sell them and sales = value.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brock lesser

I caught your meaning just wanted it clear to everyone .
As a breeder no I won't be holding back any normals but I will sell them and sales = value.

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I understand yours too but I'm not going to sugar coat it either. I wholesale mine out for next to nothing, it costs me more to get them up to my 100g weight limit before I let them go.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

There's a possibility to get normals in every clutch. "just food for thought". LOL

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Really? I have a superblast, killer bee, sterling, super pastel butter, silver bullet and killer queen bee...if any of those animals ever are involved in a pairing that produces a normal I'm going to be a combination of amazed and pissed, and you can bet I'm going to be making the breeders phone ring very quickly that I got each animal from. Same goes for any of my hypo x hypo pairings, those clutches better never produce a normal either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stickyalvinroll

There's a possibility to get normals in every clutch. "just food for thought". LOL

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Not EVERY clutch. A recessive like say a ghost bred to another ghost will lay all ghost. Hets dont count.

Later


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Show me a breeder that wants to holdback any of his normal males unless it might have something funky going on.

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You make it seem like people should throw their normals in the trash just because they're not making money off of them. That's pretty disgusting.

I had a breeder told me at a reptile show that I should buy a couple normals to breed on my first run so if I screw up, I wouldn't feel bad. What's wrong with you people? I'd feel equally bad if I kill a forty dollar snake or a four hundred dollar snake.




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i have to agree. my first was a normal. i still have her. im not quite as far into breeding yet as some of you are. but i have a fire, pinstripe, and a spider. ill get rid of all of them before id even think of getting rid of my normal.

i am new to breeding BPs. i was wondering if i bred my fire male to my normal female. would there be a chance of me getting some fire females out of the clutch?

I don't see it ever happening. Normals are almost always a by-product of almost any breeding (except supers). They will never be close to eliminated

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratfink721

i am new to breeding BPs. i was wondering if i bred my fire male to my normal female. would there be a chance of me getting some fire females out of the clutch?

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u should get half and half ... as far as gender could be male or female ...


as far as the topic .. if it wasnt for norms i would of never got into bp's .. i just remeber being little and always seeing bp's in the pet shop and being amazed and they were just norms ..so im always gonna have love for them .. but yea if ur producing so many clutchs a years and get stuck with so many norms its gotta be a pain .. but its part of the game

normals have some immaterial value in that every healthy BP deserves the same kind of respect and care, and every healthy BP has he potential to be a really great pet that people can become really attached to. in that sense they are all valuable, morph or not.


but when talking about MONETARY value, its still correct to say that they are worth next to nothing. so when some people say things like "normals are worthless" or "try breeding normals first, that way you wont lose much when it doesnt work out", and other people get upset, maybe its just a misunderstanding?

and to say that for breeding, normals are worthless, is also quite correct. it may sound rude, but that doesnt make it untrue. the thing is that for normals, big exporters in Ghana or Benin pretty much set the global market price. and that price is just too low for any breeder that requires heat tape and thermostats and incubators and who has to pay employees 15 dollars per hour to compete with. you need to sell combos and morphs at premium prices in order to break even. depending on how efficient a breeder oprates, every normal hatched may imply an immediate financial loss, so they try their best to avoid it by breeding morph combo to morph combo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ratfink721

i am new to breeding BPs. i was wondering if i bred my fire male to my normal female. would there be a chance of me getting some fire females out of the clutch?

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Yes. you would get 1/2 Normals and 1/2 Fire. Now as for sex of the babies, that would just be a dice roll, no telling what you would get.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misha

You make it seem like people should throw their normals in the trash just because they're not making money off of them. That's pretty disgusting.

I had a breeder told me at a reptile show that I should buy a couple normals to breed on my first run so if I screw up, I wouldn't feel bad. What's wrong with you people? I'd feel equally bad if I kill a forty dollar snake or a four hundred dollar snake.

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I love entertaining comments like this that seem to not understand my original post.:rofl::rofl:
As much as you think you love your normals (don't twist what I type because I have my share of normal that I wont let go of either) you also need to step away from you hobby choice and look at it from a business point of view. I love breeding, raising up little ones costs the same regardless if its a normal or a ?? morph. Whats the smart choice?

Why is it so hard for people to look from another point of view, society in general is so self-centered but that's for a different post.
Now back on topic. Which was at what point do you think their value will increase?

I posted this just for fun because I know at some point with the amount of multi gene snakes, there is going to be a point where someone will want to prove exactly whats in it. Especially with some of the genes that are so subtle or my favorite with all the "new" claims that just plain look like another morph that already exists.

dam pitt idk .. my opion they will never go up .. way to many of them

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I posted this just for fun because I know at some point with the amount of multi gene snakes, there is going to be a point where someone will want to prove exactly whats in it. Especially with some of the genes that are so subtle or my favorite with all the "new" claims that just plain look like another morph that already exists.

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thats true, and some breeders hang on to a few normals just for that reason. and some breeders like to sometimes add some fresh african genetics to keep the gene pool healthy. but even then, something like 5% normals in the collection should be enough for that.

but if the need arises to prove something out because the genetics are getting too complicated, you could always use something like a super mojave or super pastel to prove it out. or, even better, just breed it to a recessive like an albino or hypo or clown or something, that allows you to sort out the genetics, but as a bonus they will all be 100% het.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

but if the need arises to prove something out because the genetics are getting too complicated, you could always use something like a super mojave or super pastel to prove it out. or, even better, just breed it to a recessive like an albino or hypo or clown or something, that allows you to sort out the genetics, but as a bonus they will all be 100% het.

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Well kick me in the butt LoL
I honestly never had that thought run through my head.
I think you just made the normal breeding value go down more now. :rofl::rofl::rofl:
All honestly though, This would be the smarter move.

I don't think you will see the price of Normals move at all. Supply and demand dictates the price. They are a huge pet trade. Heck, my first bp was a 1.0 Normal. I still have him. He's 2 years old and a whopping 500g.

My 0.6 Normals are invaluable. I acquired all of them as adults by trade, or paid no more than $100. Throw a double or triple at them and sit back.
I do not hold back Normal females..... it costs more to raise them for 2 years than to just buy adults. I wholesale all my Normal hatchlings for $15.

I know breeders who hold Normal hatchlings for shows by the dozen and sell them out of a 10 gallon tank. They pay the hotel/food bills.

My best advice to anyone starting out is to buy 10 Normal females or maybe even 10 Pastel females for a bit more and raise them up as breeders. 0.1 Pastels can easily be had for $50 each as hatchlings and go for $400+ as adults. You will never see that with Normals and you get the extra Pastel gene for $25 more than a Normal. I do not ever see replacing my 0.6 Normals or 0.6 Pastels when I know they will bring me good eggs.

Basically what I am saying is.... yes, Normals are valuable in breeding, but I don't think their price will budge at all, UNLESS importing restrictions have an impact on the supply from Africa.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by coreydelong

I do not ever see replacing my 0.6 Normals or 0.6 Pastels when I know they will bring me good eggs.

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Quick spin to jack my own thread because I can................................
Good eggs is the key as well as larger clutches.
Would you still keep the 3 or 4 egger??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Quick spin to jack my own thread because I can................................
Good eggs is the key as well as larger clutches.
Would you still keep the 3 or 4 egger??

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"Good eggs" was meant to be as in healthy and a "decent" quantity. 3-4 eggs for a first or second year girl and I would still keep her. If she has given me 8-10 eggs in prior years and she is now down to 3-4 that would be a tough call. 3-4 eggs is better than none when I have the room and I'm looking for a certain morph in return.... ie- I have a 1.0 Sugar Fire, and I want a 0.1 Sugar Fire, 0.1 Sugar Pastel or 1.0/0.1 Sugar Firefly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I love entertaining comments like this that seem to not understand my original post.:rofl::rofl:
As much as you think you love your normals (don't twist what I type because I have my share of normal that I wont let go of either) you also need to step away from you hobby choice and look at it from a business point of view. I love breeding, raising up little ones costs the same regardless if its a normal or a ?? morph. Whats the smart choice?

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You just wrote the magic words. This is a HOBBY for me as well as most small breeders and probably yourself. I don't rely on breeding to pay my bills. My first reason for breeding would be to have fun not to strike rich. I think you're in the wrong hobby to make money.

If you want me to look at breeding from a business point of view then I'd tell you it's not a good business to be in period. If all you care about is making money, there's plenty of things you can do that will make a lot more money a lot faster than breeding ever will. So please don't talk to me about smart choices.

So at the end of the day, unless you're the select few who actually depend on breeding to pay their bills, you shouldn't be talking about how uselss certain animals are. Maybe you should reconsider your hobby/business choices and go into something that doesn't deal with useless animals.

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Normals in my opinion will not go up in value, but that does not mean they are not good as pets or for proving out genes

I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the stuff being thrown around here, but I just wanted to point out that it is never NECESSARY to use a normal with the goal of figuring out what genetics a certain animal carries. The same result can be achieved just as easily using recessive animals in place of normals.

For example: In the spring/summer I have the chance at producing some HG Woma combos with as many as 8-9 genes in a single animal. If I REALLY need to know exactly whats in some of them, I'll breed them to Hypo, Clown, Lav, etc.

Carry on with the other stuff LOL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

thats true, and some breeders hang on to a few normals just for that reason. and some breeders like to sometimes add some fresh african genetics to keep the gene pool healthy. but even then, something like 5% normals in the collection should be enough for that.

but if the need arises to prove something out because the genetics are getting too complicated, you could always use something like a super mojave or super pastel to prove it out. or, even better, just breed it to a recessive like an albino or hypo or clown or something, that allows you to sort out the genetics, but as a bonus they will all be 100% het.

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You can't always do that, say you are trying to prove out a new morph or one that looks normal, a special comes to mind.
Some hets alter the appearance of the animals, only by breading to a normal will the genes be clean.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misha

You just wrote the magic words. This is a HOBBY for me as well as most small breeders and probably yourself. I don't rely on breeding to pay my bills. My first reason for breeding would be to have fun not to strike rich. I think you're in the wrong hobby to make money.

If you want me to look at breeding from a business point of view then I'd tell you it's not a good business to be in period. If all you care about is making money, there's plenty of things you can do that will make a lot more money a lot faster than breeding ever will. So please don't talk to me about smart choices.

So at the end of the day, unless you're the select few who actually depend on breeding to pay their bills, you shouldn't be talking about how uselss certain animals are. Maybe you should reconsider your hobby/business choices and go into something that doesn't deal with useless animals.

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even if you do it purely as a hobby, wouldnt you want to get somewhere? hatch something new? hit your dream combo? hit new combinations? ramp up the gene count and the genetic quality of your collection? maybe hit some double recessives or combos involving super forms? maybe even aim for a world first? well, normals will not help with any of this. if you want anything other than copies of more of the same, or if you want a super form, or a visual recessive, both parents need to contribute. even hobby breeders have ambitions and goals. and generally normals are of no help in reaching these goals, they just enable you to cheaply drive up your egg count.

why should people reconsider their hobby/business choices, just because they have goals and ambitions and normals are useless (there, i said it, useless) for getting closer to these goals?

if a hobby breeder has the goal of working with combinations involving super enchi, or piebald, its just a fact that normals will be utterly useless for that. that doesnt mean that this hypothetical hobby breeder has anything against normals and people that use them, its just a fact that nothing involving super enchi and no pied can be produced with any pairing involving a normal. so dont be so damn judgmental. i dont see why you would ask such a person to reconsider breeding altogether.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

I'm not even going to comment on the rest of the stuff being thrown around here, but I just wanted to point out that it is never NECESSARY to use a normal with the goal of figuring out what genetics a certain animal carries. The same result can be achieved just as easily using recessive animals in place of normals.

For example: In the spring/summer I have the chance at producing some HG Woma combos with as many as 8-9 genes in a single animal. If I REALLY need to know exactly whats in some of them, I'll breed them to Hypo, Clown, Lav, etc.

Carry on with the other stuff LOL

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What is being thrown around is good honest debate and the expression of everyones opinion, thats a good thing.
I don't mind all the threads where everyone says how nice your new animals look, but give me a thread with some " meat " and I'm in!
I believe it's been civil and fun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

even if you do it purely as a hobby, wouldnt you want to get somewhere? hatch something new? hit your dream combo? hit new combinations? ramp up the gene count and the genetic quality of your collection? maybe hit some double recessives or combos involving super forms? maybe even aim for a world first? well, normals will not help with any of this. if you want anything other than copies of more of the same, or if you want a super form, or a visual recessive, both parents need to contribute. even hobby breeders have ambitions and goals. and generally normals are of no help in reaching these goals, they just enable you to cheaply drive up your egg count.

why should people reconsider their hobby/business choices, just because they have goals and ambitions and normals are useless (there, i said it, useless) for getting closer to these goals?

if a hobby breeder has the goal of working with combinations involving super enchi, or piebald, its just a fact that normals will be utterly useless for that. that doesnt mean that this hypothetical hobby breeder has anything against normals and people that use them, its just a fact that nothing involving super enchi and no pied can be produced with any pairing involving a normal. so dont be so damn judgmental. i dont see why you would ask such a person to reconsider breeding altogether.

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This has nothing to do with breeding projects. Read the post before you reply.

I'd love to produce cool morphs but I'm not going to use regular BPs I produce as feeders as someone on this thread suggested. And your "useless" normals are the ones that get people involved in this hobby. I think most people here started with a normal including myself.


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I don't think you will ever see normals go up that high in price for exactly the reasons you mentioned about the market being steadily supplies. The big breeders as well as the hobby breeders have to make up such a small percentage of ownership that there will always be a market for beginner snakes such as your garden variety bp. However, I do believe that with the increase in morphs and the extent that they are being combined it won't be very long until you can get what is now considered a rare expensive morph for very little in comparison.

Also, I believe without the normals there is no market for higher end snakes. You have to begin somewhere and that is typically at the beginning. You don't go out and buy a Lexus for your first car. You start out with the Camry.

I use my Normals a lot to hopefully get a female back of the same male morph I am breeding her to. Sugar Fire and Enchi Fire are two examples for me this year. I have other males I would love to put with a 0.1 Sugar Fire or 0.1 Enchi Fire.... like a Nuclear, Enchi Pastel, Banana, etc....

I don't think they'll go up. There will always be people breeding their pastel male to normal female.

I'm not sure why there is so much offense being taken to the word useless. He is talking about the dollar value of the animal over the cost of keeping it alive. He is not talking about how you should just pick them up, throw them at the garbage can or let your cat play with it. Nobody is downplaying the value of life. We're on a website dedicated to these animals - we all signed up here because we agree they're all cool, including normal males. It's pretty obviously a discussion about return on investment. Chill out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misha

This has nothing to do with breeding projects. Read the post before you reply.

I'd love to produce cool morphs but I'm not going to use regular BPs I produce as feeders as someone on this thread suggested. And your "useless" normals are the ones that get people involved in this hobby. I think most people here started with a normal including myself.

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oh ok, maybe its a misunderstanding then. as i said earlier, all BPs deserve the same respect, no matter the monetary value or genetics.

people that hatch normals and have no use for them should still treat them with respect, get them well-started, and sell them. even if they dont make money doing it. you can see them as useless for your further breeding plans, and still treat them with respect. when you produce new life, taking good care of it is part of the responsibility. here i agree, a BP doesnt deserve less respect just because it didnt get the right chromosomes.

sure, most people start with a normal, then get into morphs, and some then start breeding. but thats just because the big chain pet stores have such a strong market influence, and they typically only ever buy the cheapest hatchlings and sell them overpriced, which means africa import normal hatchlings, or rejects from big breeders. its their business model, buy the cheapest stuff, sell it for as much as can be charged for it, and so another thing is part of the experience: they buy a normal for over a hundred dollars with mites from a big chain, then they do the research, and it turns out they can get the same without mites and in better condition for 20 dollars at a reptile show, and what they paid would have been enough to get a simple morph from a local breeder. thats not optimal at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I don't think they'll go up. There will always be people breeding their pastel male to normal female.

I'm not sure why there is so much offense being taken to the word useless. He is talking about the dollar value of the animal over the cost of keeping it alive. He is not talking about how you should just pick them up, throw them at the garbage can or let your cat play with it. Nobody is downplaying the value of life. We're on a website dedicated to these animals - we all signed up here because we agree they're all cool, including normal males. It's pretty obviously a discussion about return on investment. Chill out.

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This is the explanation to the original statement I have been waiting on.
I will never breed a normal male to anything for any reason so no breading value, I sell them,
I have 15 breeder normal females, don't need anymore, sell them too.
Do I do back flips when I hatch normals out of a three gene female, nope.
Is every baby treated like gold, yes, because they have value to someone.
I understand the op's point just figured some might not.

I don't think normals will increase in monetary value. However, an outstanding clean, light normal is worth more to me personally than a browned out, dirty, busy pastel for example. And if two dirty pastels produced super pastels, I would still take that clean, light normal over it. A dirty super pastel (yes, they exist) is a horrible prospect for breeding.


One issue with normals is that many people do not selectively breed for them like how most breed for morphs. They just breed whatever normal of whatever quality to their other morphs.

Yes, normals vary a lot.
But certain normals can definitely improve the way a morph looks. For example, a blushed out, really light, really reduced pattern normal can enhance and improve a fire or a pastel.
Gale (Angellady) here has one of THE BEST normal females I have ever seen. And she uses that normal female to produce superb morph offspring that are much more attractive than the morph sire. The female has traits that do improve the looks and quality of the offspring.

I personally think if people used excellent examples of normals(including males) for breeding, we can improve the quality and looks of morphs.
However, most people just randomly breed whatever normal female they have around without really considering how it would compliment or worsen the morph they are breeding to.


My first few ball pythons were morphs before I finally bought a normal hatchling for future breeding. After a year of caring for her, I sold her. She was not a good example of a normal and did not have any special qualities I wanted to include into my breeding program. I want my line of animals to have superb blushing, vibrant coloration, and clean patterns, which she has none of these qualities.

So in regards to normals, there are definitely pet quality and breeding quality, like any other morph. However, most do overlook this just because they're normals.
So in terms of breeding stock, I do indeed find many normals "useless", unworthy of breeding, and to be pet quality at the best. But I do think that about a lot of morphs too.
Personally, it has nothing to do with what genetics the snake has, but quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I don't think normals will increase in monetary value. However, an outstanding clean, light normal is worth more to me personally than a browned out, dirty, busy pastel for example. And if two dirty pastels produced super pastels, I would still take that clean, light normal over it. A dirty super pastel (yes, they exist) is a horrible prospect for breeding.


One issue with normals is that many people do not selectively breed for them like how most breed for morphs. They just breed whatever normal of whatever quality to their other morphs.

Yes, normals vary a lot.
But certain normals can definitely improve the way a morph looks. For example, a blushed out, really light, really reduced pattern normal can enhance and improve a fire or a pastel.
Gale (Angellady) here has one of THE BEST normal females I have ever seen. And she uses that normal female to produce superb morph offspring that are much more attractive than the morph sire. The female has traits that do improve the looks and quality of the offspring.

I personally think if people used excellent examples of normals(including males) for breeding, we can improve the quality and looks of morphs.
However, most people just randomly breed whatever normal female they have around without really considering how it would compliment or worsen the morph they are breeding to.


My first few ball pythons were morphs before I finally bought a normal hatchling for future breeding. After a year of caring for her, I sold her. She was not a good example of a normal and did not have any special qualities I wanted to include into my breeding program. I want my line of animals to have superb blushing, vibrant coloration, and clean patterns, which she has none of these qualities.

So in regards to normals, there are definitely pet quality and breeding quality, like any other morph. However, most do overlook this.
So in terms of breeding stock, I do indeed find many normals "useless", unworthy of breeding, and to be pet quality at the best. But I do think that about a lot of morphs too.

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excellent post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrLang

I don't think they'll go up. There will always be people breeding their pastel male to normal female.

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I don't see why people waste their time, personally. My first pairings going all be morphs, I was going to do a morph x normal, but the odds of hitting on normals is too great and you literally cannot just give them away.

I think there is a market for them. Breeding value, not so much. I had an easier time selling normal Ball pythons than I did selling morphs this season. Although selling 1 morph was equal or greater than all my normal sales combined.

As far as price going up.....probably not unless importing them is outlawed.

I'm not even a breeder yet (but I have some business sense acquired outside of breeder), and I don't foresee the price of normals going up.

There will always be some small value for normals in terms of pets, while they may not have much value to breeders. Let's face it, big dollar morphs pretty typically go to other breeders and hobbyists willing to pay those big bucks. Pet keepers buy normals, pastels, and other cheap animals (some exceptions exist). But that doesn't mean the price of those normals, pastels, whatever will ever go up.

As for what is done with normals... hopefully they are treated with respect that all living animals deserve. I'd rather see them fed to another animal than just thrown in the trash (regardless whether dead or alive when it happens). I don't like the thought of it, but it's a better use than to just be trash. I feel the same way about roosters (I keep chickens, and though I don't purposefully breed them, I have let my hens hatch a couple eggs just to see what comes out)... roosters are practically worthless unless you are breeding chickens (and even then you don't need a bunch of roosters). They are pretty, but they can be noisy, can be aggressive (not always), and are generally unwelcome in most residential areas (even those where hens are allowed). So you can't keep roosters, and can't really even give them away. Better to use them for something (food) than to just throw them away. At least then their life had some purpose.

Just made a deal a while ago. Bought a rack. With it came 5 normal female breeders and a male. Hearing the girls are near worthless bummed me out a little! Either way, they are beautiful girls and good pets if anything. (Actually, the male is a pastel.)


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Originally Posted by Jackie

Just made a deal a while ago. Bought a rack. With it came 5 normal female breeders and a male. Hearing the girls are near worthless bummed me out a little! Either way, they are beautiful girls and good pets if anything. (Actually, the male is a pastel.)


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I would say there's no reason to feel bummed, value and worth of something can be totally subjective at times, and to me it sounds like for you, they do have value. I produced two animals this season that to me were more valuable than what they would sell for...so they are still sitting in my rack. What I will say though, is put some thought into what you're going to do with all these animals, how much sense does it really make to breed a pastel male to five females (if that's the direction you sound like you're going here). There are a lot of breeders moving out single and double gene proven males at shows to replace them with something else, either more genes or newer ones...animals that have more than paid for themselves, will likely be out of future breeding rotations and it's worth it to give someone a break on the price to free up the cage space at home...just something you might want to think about.