Morph ID discussion

Hey everyone I've had this girl for almost 5 years and have always wondered if her pattern was genetic. She was sold to me as a het albino cinnamon along with another het albino cinnamon that really does look like a cinnamon. I think her pattern looks a lot like the blitz morph and she has a very busy belly pattern as well.

I would like to know if anyone has any ideas or knows similar looking morphs. I've been waiting over 4 years and she just laid her first clutch today, 6 good eggs!! I'm so excited to see if the busy pattern trait get carried on to the offspring!

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...10895952_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...12613931_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...49434268_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...52411360_n.jpg

I'm just too excited and the eggs are only at day 2. I have a feeling the pattern is genetic but I just hope she is really het albino.

Was she bred to an albino pin? If so, heres to more ablino pins.

its nice, it looks almost green, and i like the pattern.

if it turns out to be passed on genetically, next step would be to try and get a super form.

lori, for example, is a really really subtle gene, but the super form is just amazing.

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/super-lori/

but its always a gamble and a lot of work to try to prove something like that out.

Its been the breeding I've been looking forward to the most. I was disappointed she didn't go last year but I'm happy for the 6 good eggs this year.

Here is a belly shot.

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...39829507_n.jpg

So heres what I got. The traits of the mother really came through on this clutch. Notice the difference between the 2 albino pins, Doesn't it look like one has the gene from the mother and the other is cleaner and more yellow?

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...52322071_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...79555062_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...19103555_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.n...40840723_n.jpg

Very interesting. It couldjust bethe con cinnamon coming through. Please post more pics in a couple weeks. I m dying to see if this goes anywhere. Let us know the sex of these guys too. The mom is super cool looking.

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Heres the whole clutch

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/...eb&oe=532AB4E9

Back years ago people were interchanging Black pastel and Cinni, I'd say that its one or the other more than likely its a Black pastel based on the pattern and color

Here is a really good example of a Black Pastel before they started getting all watered down from people not selective breeding. That even looks like an Albino Cinni or BP
http://vpi.com/sites/default/files/B...VPI)001o_1.jpg

i think freaky_frog may be on to something here.

as a cinnamon, it doesnt seem to make much sense. it looks more consistent if you assum that its a black pastel. that would at least explain the pattern. im still not sure if it explains the color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i think freaky_frog may be on to something here.

as a cinnamon, it doesnt seem to make much sense. it looks more consistent if you assum that its a black pastel. that would at least explain the pattern. im still not sure if it explains the color.

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The colors will vary, I've seen BP look better than Cinni's and then I've seen them look almost normal except for the head. People just to just interchange the BP and Cinni name. Like Butter and Lesser or Sugar and Calico, Het Red and Green Pastel :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

i think freaky_frog may be on to something here.

as a cinnamon, it doesnt seem to make much sense. it looks more consistent if you assum that its a black pastel. that would at least explain the pattern. im still not sure if it explains the color.

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They don't have connected lower side pattern blushing like cinnys and black pastels do. I honestly don't think the super will be the same, maybe just extra busy or something. The albino in the clutch is a male and I would hope to try breeding him back to the mother, but he was the runt of the clutch only 53g while the rest were 70-75g.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kenj620

They don't have connected lower side pattern blushing like cinnys and black pastels do. I honestly don't think the super will be the same, maybe just extra busy or something. The albino in the clutch is a male and I would hope to try breeding him back to the mother, but he was the runt of the clutch only 53g while the rest were 70-75g.

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My question is you bought it as a Cinni Het albino. You've hatched out a classic Albino Cinni whats with the something extra, why can't it just be a good looking Cinni. They VARY, it doesn't have to have some "new" thing in it to be a little different.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

My question is you bought it as a Cinni Het albino. You've hatched out a classic Albino Cinni whats with the something extra, why can't it just be a good looking Cinni. They VARY, it doesn't have to have some "new" thing in it to be a little different.

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To me they dont look like cinnys; I have seen many cinnys, bred and produced cinnamons, and these really dont have any cinny characteristics. When I purchased her I didn't know much about the cinnamon morph but really liked her pattern and right now im just happy that she proved out het albino and I got some crazy looking snakes. I just dont want to call it cinnamon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

The colors will vary, I've seen BP look better than Cinni's and then I've seen them look almost normal except for the head. People just to just interchange the BP and Cinni name. Like Butter and Lesser or Sugar and Calico, Het Red and Green Pastel :rolleyes:

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i dont buy that at all.

the thing is: people interchange butter and lesser because they are exactly the same thing. people interchange sugar and calico, here we dont know for sure if they are the same thing, but i say they are the same thing because all possible optics seem to be possible in both sugar and calico.

but cinnamon and black pastel are consistently different. they are allelic, and have similarities, but black pastel tweaks the pattern in ways that cinnamon does not. with black pastel, the pattern gets more busy, and you get dark spots or even dark lines within the patterning, cinnamons dont do that. cinnamon makes it darker, in the direction of dark brown, and tends to leave the pattern alone. some threads ago i read someone mentioning the possibility of creating a 5-stripe by combining tri-stripe and the right black pastel. there is no way you could do that or even conceive of it with cinnamon. final nail in the coffin: the super-forms look different. yes, both have the same genetic issues, but they consistently look different. super cinnamons are very dark brown (almost black) at the back, and towards the belly they go through different kinds of brown. super black pastels are very dark grey (almost black) at the back, and towards the belly they go through different stages of grey.

thats what caused my first reply, on page one. it was introduced to me as a cinnamon, and i looked at the pics, and i had a contradiction. its just not a cinnamon or at least not just a cinnamon. but it may be a black pastel. back when i made the first reply, i just somehow didnt have black pastel optics on the radar because it was introduced as a cinnamon. basically my brain just said "nay, that aint a cinny", and went from there, without making the connection to black pastel.

anyway, i now think that if you go for a super form of this, you are likely to get a super black pastel. but there still is the possibility that its something different and you get a different super form. the colors still confuse me.

looks like a Trick.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

looks like a Trick.


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I'm pretty sure it's not trick it didn't seem to effect the pinstripe pattern too much on the hatchlings, and I've seen trick pins and they look crazy.