Baby female single co-doms?

I think I said that right. While I am searching for a new job I thought I might research a good place to get my females. Is there any good providers of pure Lessers and pure Mojave's I should be contacting?

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whats your price range? depending on your price range, you might want to leapfrog right to two-gene females.

then, where are you living? that will help others to make suggestions that are regional to you, like good breeders or good reptile shows. im from Germany so i wont be of much help, unless you are looking for breeders in southern Germany :)

oops...haha, I am in central California. I would love to get right in up to the hips on some really nifty morphs but alas I am newly unemployed. So at least for the moment I am only researching for a safe dealer and/or breeder. I am really interested in 3 morphs. Pure Mojave, pure Cinnamon, and pure Lesser. The Mojave's and the Cinnamon's are just my personal favorites. I would like to eventually breed a gift for my wife and her favorite morph is Lesser Mojave BEL.

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Originally Posted by hozr

oops...haha, I am in central California. I would love to get right in up to the hips on some really nifty morphs but alas I am newly unemployed. So at least for the moment I am only researching for a safe dealer and/or breeder. I am really interested in 3 morphs. Pure Mojave, pure Cinnamon, and pure Lesser. The Mojave's and the Cinnamon's are just my personal favorites. I would like to eventually breed a gift for my wife and her favorite morph is Lesser Mojave BEL.

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If I am not mistaken, a Lesser x Lesser will give you a more pure/whiter BEL.

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Originally Posted by B&H Reptiles

If I am not mistaken, a Lesser x Lesser will give you a more pure/whiter BEL.

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which has known genetic issues with the eyes, which can be avoided by avoiding super lesser, super butter, and butter lesser ;) ;)

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

which has known genetic issues with the eyes, which can be avoided by avoiding super lesser, super butter, and butter lesser ;) ;)

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Hence the Mojave x Lesser. B-)

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OK so I guess I do have a little dream going about breeding BELs professionally but I am willing to recognize limitations..ya know reality checks..as sad as it might make me.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

which has known genetic issues with the eyes, which can be avoided by avoiding super lesser, super butter, and butter lesser ;) ;)

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I was not aware of that, good to know. :D Back to the drawing board, very good info on this site appreciate it!

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I was not aware of that, good to know. http://ball-pythons.net/forums/image...es/biggrin.png Back to the drawing board, very good info on this site appreciate it!

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absolutely no problem :)

you can still make your own super lessers or super butters and hold them back, there is some chance of eye issues but for BPs the eyes are not that important. lesser mojaves are just as white and seem to be more popular these days. super mojaves are also nice, they have some grey but people still like them because mojave is a popular gene to work with. then you can add mystic or phantom for purple passion or mystic potion, thats also really nice stuff. then there are other genes like special or het russo.

one decent goal would be to get to the point that you can breed lesser mojave to super mojave. half will be very white lesser mojave BELs, the other half will be super mojaves.

then, on the horizon, still extremely expensive, would be bamboo, clearly the most powerful of all these genes. the super bamboo as well as the lesser bamboo are very white BELs, and just on its own bamboo is also a really powerful gene.

I can refer you to some really good breeders, mainly depending on your location. I can also tell you who to avoid depending on your location as well. What is your price range and where are you from?

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

absolutely no problem :)

you can still make your own super lessers or super butters and hold them back, there is some chance of eye issues but for BPs the eyes are not that important. lesser mojaves are just as white and seem to be more popular these days. super mojaves are also nice, they have some grey but people still like them because mojave is a popular gene to work with. then you can add mystic or phantom for purple passion or mystic potion, thats also really nice stuff. then there are other genes like special or het russo.

one decent goal would be to get to the point that you can breed lesser mojave to super mojave. half will be very white lesser mojave BELs, the other half will be super mojaves.

then, on the horizon, still extremely expensive, would be bamboo, clearly the most powerful of all these genes. the super bamboo as well as the lesser bamboo are very white BELs, and just on its own bamboo is also a really powerful gene.

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Definitely all beautiful animals , and all very promising genes. I see a mojave male in the near future. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Neal

I can refer you to some really good breeders, mainly depending on your location. I can also tell you who to avoid depending on your location as well. What is your price range and where are you from?

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I am from central ca and I would like to spend less than $200\animal. I have noticed that the genes I want are all very close to my price range most of the time.

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Originally Posted by hozr

I am from central ca and I would like to spend less than $200\animal. I have noticed that the genes I want are all very close to my price range most of the time.

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I'd have to make some calls but you can't go wrong with a Mojave female and a butter male. This way you can make your own BEL.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I'd have to make some calls but you can't go wrong with a Mojave female and a butter male. This way you can make your own BEL.

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That is the goal. Except that if possible I would like my BELs to be Lesser x Mojave. Pure Butters seem to be even harder to find than pure Lessers. Actually all pure strain morphs seem to be kinda hard to find. Is that so the larger more established breeders/companies maintain majority control of the market?

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Originally Posted by hozr

That is the goal. Except that if possible I would like my BELs to be Lesser x Mojave. Pure Butters seem to be even harder to find than pure Lessers. Actually all pure strain morphs seem to be kinda hard to find. Is that so the larger more established breeders/companies maintain majority control of the market?

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Well being that butter and lesser are actually the same gene, just two different versions. This is why you run into issues if you do those two to make a BEL. What somebody did is they had two genes that looked the same and they line bred it.

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Originally Posted by hozr

That is the goal. Except that if possible I would like my BELs to be Lesser x Mojave. Pure Butters seem to be even harder to find than pure Lessers. Actually all pure strain morphs seem to be kinda hard to find. Is that so the larger more established breeders/companies maintain majority control of the market?

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Well being that butter and lesser are actually the same gene, just two different versions. This is why you run into issues if you do those two to make a BEL. What somebody did is they had two genes that looked the same and they line bred it.

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Originally Posted by hozr

That is the goal. Except that if possible I would like my BELs to be Lesser x Mojave. Pure Butters seem to be even harder to find than pure Lessers. Actually all pure strain morphs seem to be kinda hard to find. Is that so the larger more established breeders/companies maintain majority control of the market?

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i think there is a special case with lesser an butter: both are popular, and they are identical. so once people breed them together, no way to tell which line it is, also it doesnt really matter because in combos with other morphs and also on their own they just do the same. it just makes no difference. so just shop for a lesser or butter, and shop for the best optics and the healthiest animal. and if it can be traced back to one of the original lines is meaningless, its also meaningless if its a lesser or a butter, and when it cannot be traced back... no problem.

BTW i would do the same when shopping for mystic/phantom, banana/coral glow, sugar/calico. just search for the best looking example and best quality, line be damned.

and the market force at work here is marketing. you have one snake, and with excellent documentation you can make the claim that its from an original line of lesser or butter. and if there are any gaps in the documentation, you cannot know if its pure, so you can CHOOSE to call it lesser or butter or lesser/butter.

EDIT: i dont think its line-breeding, i think lesser and butter both came from africa as imports, imported by different people, and later it turned out to be the same gene.

If your buying babies, another idea might be to buy 2 female lessers/butters and in a year or two buy a super mojave male.
You will have better odds to hit your bels.
As far as price I think $200 for female lesser babies is fair.

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Originally Posted by brock lesser

If your buying babies, another idea might be to buy 2 female lessers/butters and in a year or two buy a super mojave male.
You will have better odds to hit your bels.
As far as price I think $200 for female lesser babies is fair.

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I would love to do just that. Unfortunately the super Mojave's would be a rather long ways out of my price range (cheapest one I have found is like $500)... Regardless of how long I wait. Kids and wife makes it so a pet that costs as much as a respectable down payment on my daughter's Cello might be viewed as slightly overboard.

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Originally Posted by hozr

I would love to do just that. Unfortunately the super Mojave's would be a rather long ways out of my price range (cheapest one I have found is like $500)... Regardless of how long I wait. Kids and wife makes it so a pet that costs as much as a respectable down payment on my daughter's Cello might be viewed as slightly overboard.

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Lol..quoting myself. Forgot to mention... Other than the super that is my idea almost exactly. I want to get 2 baby females. Butters or Lessers I am flexible (although to my untrained eyes I can see a difference in them, the butters look slightly sautéed. I thought that was why they were called Butters.) I want to get my girls first, babies preferred as I want all my BPs to be my pets first and breeders second. Then a bit before they are matured acquire their male counterparts. I prefer the single gene co-doms because it seems they are very hard to find. Almost all of the online breeders and/or retailers seem to purposefully avoid the lower cost single gene morphs. I can only assume that this is so because of increased profitability (I assume a $2500 morph has the same annual maintenance as a $30 normal) or to discourage others from attempting to break into breeding.

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Originally Posted by hozr

Lol..quoting myself. Forgot to mention... Other than the super that is my idea almost exactly. I want to get 2 baby females. Butters or Lessers I am flexible (although to my untrained eyes I can see a difference in them, the butters look slightly sautéed. I thought that was why they were called Butters.) I want to get my girls first, babies preferred as I want all my BPs to be my pets first and breeders second. Then a bit before they are matured acquire their male counterparts. I prefer the single gene co-doms because it seems they are very hard to find. Almost all of the online breeders and/or retailers seem to purposefully avoid the lower cost single gene morphs. I can only assume that this is so because of increased profitability (I assume a $2500 morph has the same annual maintenance as a $30 normal) or to discourage others from attempting to break into breeding.

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That's because low end single gene animals are very hard to sell on line...Pay $50 for a snake and $65 for shipping is kind of dumb...The best place to move low end animals is at a show...

So a lot of people wholesale their low end stuff to flippers who do shows and just list the high end stuff on line.

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Originally Posted by coldbloodaddict

That's because low end single gene animals are very hard to sell on line...Pay $50 for a snake and $65 for shipping is kind of dumb...The best place to move low end animals is at a show...

So a lot of people wholesale their low end stuff to flippers who do shows and just list the high end stuff on line.

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Thank you! That was very informative. It also kinda screws me permanently. I can only find info on 3 show in California all year long and the closest one is 2hours away. Over 40million people here and no info about central CA reptile shows.

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Originally Posted by hozr

It also kinda screws me permanently.

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Don't give up there are still plenty of the single gene co-doms that you are looking for being sold online. A little bit of searching and I'm sure you'll find the perfect ones for you. Good luck.