Do PVC terrariums need silicone?

Hey guys,

I bought a used Animal Plastic T-12 cage today (got it for a steal on CL) but noticed that the previous owner has not siliconed the inside of it. Does anyone know if I would need to do that or is that an optional thing?

Also, if anyone can recommend reptile-safe silicone, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Hey guys,

I bought a used Animal Plastic T-12 cage today (got it for a steal on CL) but noticed that the previous owner has not siliconed the inside of it. Does anyone know if I would need to do that or is that an optional thing?

Also, if anyone can recommend reptile-safe silicone, it would be greatly appreciated.

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Why would you silicone it? I don't use Animal Plastics myself but, most X-PVC enclosures are thermo-formed and chemically welded. With a decent chemical weld you shouldn't need to silicone even to make it water tight.

I figured i'd seal it for better humidity and make it semi water resistant.

That's why I'm asking. Not sure if they should be sealed or not.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Why would you silicone it? I don't use Animal Plastics myself but, most X-PVC enclosures are thermo-formed and chemically welded. With a decent chemical weld you shouldn't need to silicone even to make it water tight.

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AP cages aren't chemical welded. They do in fact need to be siliconed to be water tight.

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Originally Posted by Misha

I figured i'd seal it for better humidity and make it semi water resistant.

That's why I'm asking. Not sure if they should be sealed or not.

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It does, at least the joints where the bottom and the sides meet. Otherwise urine or a spilled water dish will make a big mess. I would advise you use a black or clear aquarium grade sealant.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

AP cages aren't chemical welded. They do in fact need to be siliconed to be water tight.

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Any specific silicone you would recommend that's available at Lowes or Home Depot?

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Originally Posted by Misha

Any specific silicone you would recommend that's available at Lowes or Home Depot?

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I would get some from a pet store or aquarium shop. If you do get it at a hardware store make sure that it doesn't have anything to kill mold/fungus as these chemicals aren't good to have in the cage.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

I would get some from a pet store or aquarium shop. If you do get it at a hardware store make sure that it doesn't have anything to kill mold/fungus as these chemicals aren't good to have in the cage.

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Sounds good. I appreciate the info as always.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Any specific silicone you would recommend that's available at Lowes or Home Depot?

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Well, I learn something new every day still. As much as people rave about Animal Plastics products I would have expected higher build quality/better manufacturing processes.
Most pet stores carry aquarium grade silicone and would be both the easiest and most expensive place to find what you need.
However, After a bit of digging I turned up a 3 pack of aquarium grade (100% silicone with no mould/mildew inhibitors) at the local hardware store for around $12. It was Weathershield brand and specifies that it is aquarium grade on each tube.

Any high modular silicone without fungacide (mould resistant or fungus resistant)

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Well, I learn something new every day still. As much as people rave about Animal Plastics products I would have expected higher build quality/better manufacturing processes.
Most pet stores carry aquarium grade silicone and would be both the easiest and most expensive place to find what you need.
However, After a bit of digging I turned up a 3 pack of aquarium grade (100% silicone with no mould/mildew inhibitors) at the local hardware store for around $12. It was Weathershield brand and specifies that it is aquarium grade on each tube.

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The build quality is good. These cages and some others are meant to be shipped and self assembled. They tend to be less money than a pre-built cage because of the shipping cost difference.

The sealing process is VERY simple and takes minutes. 1 day to dry and you are set. If you use a decent amount of substrate, depending on the type, even if you did not seal you'd probably be OK. Our royal never dumps water, and the urates are mostly absorbed by the substrate.

That said, sealing a cage is so simple, why not do it??

I use a Pro-Line cage for my boa and feel the quality is excellent. I hear the same about AP.

Quick seal and enjoy!

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00729.jpg

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Originally Posted by Gio

http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...a/DSC00729.jpg

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http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/03/eha9ere6.jpg

If Snakesquatch gets too big for her 36x18, I know what I'm getting!

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Well, I learn something new every day still. As much as people rave about Animal Plastics products I would have expected higher build quality/better manufacturing processes.
Most pet stores carry aquarium grade silicone and would be both the easiest and most expensive place to find what you need.
However, After a bit of digging I turned up a 3 pack of aquarium grade (100% silicone with no mould/mildew inhibitors) at the local hardware store for around $12. It was Weathershield brand and specifies that it is aquarium grade on each tube.

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They aren't the only ones that don't bond the joints of there cages with PVC solvent. There is a manufacturer right here in Ontario that uses silicone to bond the corners of their cages. Never really understood why a manufacturer wouldn't use the proper glues to assemble a cage. :confusd:

So I ended up using an aquarium sealant called Aqueon. Now two days wait for it to dry...

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

They aren't the only ones that don't bond the joints of there cages with PVC solvent. There is a manufacturer right here in Ontario that uses silicone to bond the corners of their cages. Never really understood why a manufacturer wouldn't use the proper glues to assemble a cage. :confusd:

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Jason, what are you referring to here? I'm slightly confused and please take no offense as I'm just trying to figure out what you are talking about.

The "assemble yourself" cages like AP, Pro-Line and some of the others recommend you seal the seems after you put the cage together.

Cages like Boaphile are assembled and shipped as a whole unit. They are welded, but you can't really compare them to a cage that is shipped "flat" and then assembled at your home.

Both have their pros and cons.

I just am not sure what you are talking about is all, so maybe I'm missing your point.

I know Aaron is a big advocate of AP and he's a pretty meticulous keeper. I'd consider AP high quality as far as caging goes based on his experiences.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Jason, what are you referring to here? I'm slightly confused and please take no offense as I'm just trying to figure out what you are talking about.

The "assemble yourself" cages like AP, Pro-Line and some of the others recommend you seal the seems after you put the cage together.

Cages like Boaphile are assembled and shipped as a whole unit. They are welded, but you can't really compare them to a cage that is shipped "flat" and then assembled at your home.

Both have their pros and cons.

I just am not sure what you are talking about is all, so maybe I'm missing your point.

I know Aaron is a big advocate of AP and he's a pretty meticulous keeper. I'd consider AP high quality as far as caging goes based on his experiences.

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I cannot speak for Jason(and I didn't read his comment as knocking AP) but, I have purchased his enclosures and one from Ricky's Reptile Enclosures and, both of these were well built items. There are other manufactures of PVC enclosures locally and some use silicone as a primary bonding agent instead of chemically welding components. A well done chemical weld is superior to a silicone used as glue from both a structural and an aesthetic standpoint.

The idea of the AP being available as RTA(ready to assemble) units strikes me as brilliant for shipping although, personally I would be inclined to use PVC solvent cement myself for assembly. But, my job required me to work in metals, plastics, wood and masonry so, I am pretty comfortable making or modifying components for enclosures and doing things a bit different than suggested.

I wish I could remember the name of the product that came shipped with my Boa's cage. I got it knock-down style from Cornel's World and am extremely happy with it. Shipping costs were very excellent too as he was able to send it on the Greyhound. Came in within 24 hours of him sending it out. If it had been sent assembled I'm sure shipping costs would have been double if not more.

The downside was, I did have to wait for the PVC bond to cure, but I wasn't putting the boa in right away anyways. I am glad I didn't skip the sealant step, because Dumeril's urinate A LOT and I would probably have a mess if I didn't seal it.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

I cannot speak for Jason(and I didn't read his comment as knocking AP) but, I have purchased his enclosures and one from Ricky's Reptile Enclosures and, both of these were well built items. There are other manufactures of PVC enclosures locally and some use silicone as a primary bonding agent instead of chemically welding components. A well done chemical weld is superior to a silicone used as glue from both a structural and an aesthetic standpoint.

The idea of the AP being available as RTA(ready to assemble) units strikes me as brilliant for shipping although, personally I would be inclined to use PVC solvent cement myself for assembly. But, my job required me to work in metals, plastics, wood and masonry so, I am pretty comfortable making or modifying components for enclosures and doing things a bit different than suggested.

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OK,

I see what you are saying here. I don't have any experience with AP but have heard nothing but good about the cages.

The Pro-Line I have actually has joints that slide together and the tolerances are very tight. Even without a seal, the likelihood of a leak is practically zero. The design of the slide joints would mean the fluids would have to go down one spot and then up and over another and then leak out.

The silicone seal simply helps keep those tiny cracks filled.

Pro-Line cages are not PVC. They are HDPE and nothing sticks to the plastic. They use marine grade material that is used in ship repair. Maybe that makes a difference as to what you seal them with?

All the self assemble cages do usually ship for a lot less than pre-built cages. The trade off is YOU obviously have to put the thing together.

I enjoyed doing mine, but I can see where just having it arrive ready to fill with a snake would be nice as well.

Thanks for clarifying the point!

Sounds like you have a nice cage yourself!!

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Originally Posted by Gio

Jason, what are you referring to here? I'm slightly confused and please take no offense as I'm just trying to figure out what you are talking about.

The "assemble yourself" cages like AP, Pro-Line and some of the others recommend you seal the seems after you put the cage together.

Cages like Boaphile are assembled and shipped as a whole unit. They are welded, but you can't really compare them to a cage that is shipped "flat" and then assembled at your home.

Both have their pros and cons.

I just am not sure what you are talking about is all, so maybe I'm missing your point.

I know Aaron is a big advocate of AP and he's a pretty meticulous keeper. I'd consider AP high quality as far as caging goes based on his experiences.

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I was in no way knocking AP. Although I have no experience with them personally I've seen there cages and they are top notch. Obviously a cage that is shipped knock down cannot be pre assembled with the proper solvents. My comment was strictly regarding manufacturers that sell pre assembled cages that are built using inferior products to assemble their cages. I personally can't stand having silicone on the inside of the cages joints. It makes cleaning the cage a pain and as it dries it shrinks and creates leaks.

Just for in the future, GE Silicone I is aquarium-safe (resealed many personal fishtanks) you just have to make sure it's Silicone I not II or III. I got my last tube at walmart a few months ago for $2 and change.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the AP cages screwed together and the sealant is just to keep it from leaking?

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the AP cages screwed together and the sealant is just to keep it from leaking?

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Yes, you're absolutely correct. This is my first AP cage and I'm definitely impressed. The T-12 cage is well constructed and doesn't really weigh anything.

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Originally Posted by Gio

OK,

Pro-Line cages are not PVC. They are HDPE and nothing sticks to the plastic. They use marine grade material that is used in ship repair. Maybe that makes a difference as to what you seal them with?

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I've heard this a bunch of times. But I'm confused as to where this information comes from. AP's own website states that their cages and racks are made with cdpvc, not HDPE. Further more if they were made from HDPE they would weigh an absolute ton. I hade a 3/4" 4x8' sheet of HDPE in my shop a few months ago. It must have been close to 175 lbs.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

I've heard this a bunch of times. But I'm confused as to where this information comes from. AP's own website states that their cages and racks are made with cdpvc, not HDPE. Further more if they were made from HDPE they would weigh an absolute ton. I hade a 3/4" 4x8' sheet of HDPE in my shop a few months ago. It must have been close to 175 lbs.

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Gio was referring to the Pro-Line cages when he said they were made with HDPE, not the AP cages.

I purchased an AP cage two weeks ago, and with the cage they included a product named Lexel, made by Sashco. It's clear and it says it's a superior alternative to silicone. When I looked online it was sold by Walmart. I figure if AP included it with the cage along with application instructions, it must meet the requirements.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

I was in no way knocking AP. Although I have no experience with them personally I've seen there cages and they are top notch. Obviously a cage that is shipped knock down cannot be pre assembled with the proper solvents. My comment was strictly regarding manufacturers that sell pre assembled cages that are built using inferior products to assemble their cages. I personally can't stand having silicone on the inside of the cages joints. It makes cleaning the cage a pain and as it dries it shrinks and creates leaks.

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Thanks Jason!

That makes sense now. It looks like Kensa cleared up the HDPE part. Thanks Kensa!! I was in fact speaking of Pro-Line Constrictors Northwest cages when I mentioned the HDPE. It is heavier but not unmanageable. You could drop it off a truck and it would be fine LOL!

I totally agree with Jason that if you are going to buy a Preassembled product it should be made the right way and not require the buyer to do anything but fill it with snakes.