Ball python suddenly not eating, losing weight. Worried!

So, I have had my regular male ball python for about 6 months, since June. I don't know his exact age, but I'm guessing he's around a year old. He has always been a healthy eater. I have always fed live. I always make sure he has caught and killed his food before I leave him alone, to make sure he does not sustain an injury. He always eats immediately after noticing the food item. I know it's normal for ball pythons to fast during the winter, but I am concerned about his drastic weight loss over the past 10 days. It seems like his skin is kind of loose around his body. I can pinch his sides a bit. He's not lethargic. I'm only worried because I can tell he has lost weight. I'll give some background so you guys have a better idea of what may or may not be wrong.

For the first 2 months I had him, he lived alone. He had the exact same setup before, except he was in a 20 gallon and now he is in a 40 gallon. Then, a couple of months later, about mid-August, I got a male pastel ball python that was around the same age. He is 2 or 3 months younger but the two are almost the same size. At the time, I didn't have another tank to house the new addition in, so I put them together. I was going to separate them once I got a bigger tank, but they seem to enjoy living together and seem super stressed when they are apart, roaming until put back together. After I got the new snake, I continued feeding my first snake on Fridays, and decided to feed the newest on Tuesdays. I always take the one that is not eating out of the tank and just drop in the food item so that the snake doesn't see me drop it in and therefore gets to hunt a bit. After they are done eating, I keep the non-eating snake out about 30-45 minutes, until the freshly fed boy has settled down and snuggled into his hot spot. I have never had a problem with either of them eating. Both of them have always eaten right away and they have never acted aggressive towards one another afterwards or between feeds.

I have them both in a 40 gallon terrarium with a screen top. The humidity stays anywhere between 45%-70%. It's difficult sometimes to keep the humidity above 50% because of the crazy weather in Louisiana during the winter. I have almost alleviated this by covering most of the screen top with plastic wrap, but sometimes I have to mist the tank a bit. Ambient temperature is between 71-80 degrees. I have a UTH under the warm side that stays on a thermostat at 91 degrees. During the day I turn on a basking light so that they have the choice to come out if they want, but I know they are nocturnal so this doesn't happen much during the day. It's mostly for light. I have identical large hides on both sides of the tank. I recently switched from Repti-bark to Jungle Mix substrate which helps me with retaining humidity but I did this after his first week of not eating.

I have tried both rats and mice. He was eating 2-3 mice per feed, though the last time he ate was actually his first rat. He ate it with no issues and had a bowel movement about a week later which is normal . I know he's still urinating because I separated the two snakes to see if it makes a difference in my problem child's temperament, and to find out if he is still drinking water. Luckily, he is. It has only been about 6 hours since they have been separated. So far, they are both incessantly exploring their enclosures.

I was thinking about getting a rat pup today and leaving it in there overnight to see if he will eat it. I don't want to leave him alone with an adult mouse or rat for fear they will hurt him. I'm mostly worried that he has intestinal parasites, but he hasn't pooped in a couple of weeks so I don't have a sample to bring to a vet. Do you guys think he will be okay if I wait another week to see if he will eat and how he does by himself? Sorry this is so long, just want to cover all my bases. I'm so stressed and worried! I have included some comparison pictures so you can see the weight loss. Thanks for any input.

Narcissus 12/20/2013: http://s367.photobucket.com/user/eso...tml?sort=3&o=1
Narcissus 12/30/2013: http://s367.photobucket.com/user/eso...tml?sort=3&o=0

Desperate them, he is most likely stressed. Balls are not social and ideally should be housed separately. Also you get an unexpected clutch, are you prepared for eggs??

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I don't really see the issue in the pics. Maybe it's the angle or maybe I'm just missing it. How much weight has he lost? When was the last time he ate?

I would just leave them separated. Most people recommend keeping them separate rather than housing them together. It seems to stress them less. If you really are intent on keeping them in the same enclosure, I know someone on here keeps their's together...hopefully they'll chime in with some advice for you.

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Desperate them, he is most likely stressed. Balls are not social and ideally should be housed separately. Also you get an unexpected clutch, are you prepared for eggs??

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That should say separate, darn auto correct

I don't see a difference either... do you have a scale that weighs in grams. If he's not eating I would get one to keep track of his weight.

Sorry disregard the eggs... I thought it said female for the new one...
Males will fight for dominance and to the untrained eye will look as if they are snuggling when in fact they are competing.
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I guess I can tell the different in his weight since I handle him so often. His spine is more noticeable and he feels much lighter. The loose skin is what really made me take notice. I saw him drinking earlier, so I know he's not dehydrated. I do have a scale that weighs in grams but he maxes it out since it only weighs up to 500 grams. I need to invest in a bigger one, I know. I'm probably just being paranoid but I can't help but worry when all the forums and websites I read pretty much make me feel like if I can see the difference in his weight, then there is something seriously wrong and he'll die soon if I don't do something quick. I tend to be a bit of a hypochondriac with my pets lol.

I will keep them separated for now and see if I can get him to eat.

I know a lot of people say that they don't like living together, but I just find it really strange that when they are separated, they are visibly stressed out. They roam around the cage trying to get out until they are rejoined, or if they are kept apart longer, they continuously roam around the enclosure for at least 2 or 3 hours.

I'll keep you guys updated. Hopefully the problem will resolve itself. I just might have a heart attack if he waits until Spring to eat!

Get a scale, separate them and let him settle in for at least a week. If they are roaming at night that is normal.
What are you trying to feed him?

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the exploring is just that they checking out their new digs. I stopped housing snakes together early on as It hard to tell who pooped, shed or what not at times. only time we have snakes together is if we are breeding them.

I have tried a small rat and mice. Haven't tried a rat pup or an ASF. I have trouble finding ASFs where I am. I'm going to leave them in separate cages for at least a week to see if anything changes. Thanks for the advice. Will post updates.

I honestly wouldn't put them back together at all... it doesn't benefit the snakes. You to keep him longer than a week, he needs to settle in good, moving him place to place is not going to help your situation

May I ask your reason for wanting them together?

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

I honestly wouldn't put them back together at all... it doesn't benefit the snakes. You to keep him longer than a week, he needs to settle in good, moving him place to place is not going to help your situation

May I ask your reason for wanting them together?

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They just seem to genuinely enjoy being in the same tank together. I never had a single problem up until now so I don't feel separation is a must if it makes no difference in their feeding or their health. But, I am more concerned about their well-being than anything else, so I am going to see how they do alone. You guys are the experts. I have to try not to be so stubborn when I ask for help. =)

How long do you think I should let them settle before I try to feed my hunger strike boy? I'm going to try to feed him a rat pup just to see if he will eat. That way I can leave them alone overnight without having to worry about him getting hurt.

They are maturing and will start to compete for the "best" spot in the tank. As the sexually mature is where the problems begin.
I would give a week, no handling, just water changes and spot cleaning then try. I think the pup is a good idea.

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I wanted to give you guys an update about my non-eating ball python situation. I separated the two pythons but Narcissus has still not eaten. It has now been 34 days. I also moved all of the snakes into my extra bedroom so that they are not in the living room with people and dogs walking by constantly. I have not been able to acquire a scale that will accommodate his size, so I have no idea how much weight he has lost overall. I can tell by the way he feels when I pick him up that he has to have lost about 75-100 grams since December 20th. I have been waiting a week in between feedings. I have perfected the temperatures and the humidity in his enclosure by adding another heat source and another bowl of water directly underneath the heat source. I put everything on an automatic timer to try to regulate his nights and days better. I tend to be nocturnal so I thought maybe it was affecting his patterns. I realized that his daytime and nighttime temps were almost exactly the same so I fixed that with the extra heat source during the day.

It's so strange, he almost seems afraid of the mice/rats. When they touch him he flinches and half-assed tries to get away. It's like he's a different snake. He is still drinking and urinating regularly, but he seems to be dehydrated. His skin is even more saggy and when I pinch his sides it takes a couple of seconds to spring back to his body, but his skin is so loose that I don't know if that's just because he lost a lot of his mass or if he is dehydrated. His eyes are not dented which is always the first sign for me that he is dehydrated. His scales are still very shiny and smooth, he appears healthy other than the weight loss and the lack of appetite. UGHHH I don't know. I'm ready to scratch my eyes out from worry.

I am attaching a picture I took today and the original picture from Dec 30th to see if you guys can tell the difference in his weight yet. To me, it is so obvious, but it's hard to show in pictures.

Any other suggestions, other than just waiting until it isn't cold anymore, or taking him to the vet? Is he supposed to still be passing feces even though he hasn't eaten? If I take him to the vet, won't they have to have a fresh sample of his feces in order to diagnose whether he has internal parasites or not? I don't know what else to do. :(

Narcissus Dec 30th: http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/o...usfat12-20.jpg
Narcissus Jan 23rd: http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/o...d/100_0766.jpg

Update about the update lol. I bought a frozen rat for him to eat but randomly decided to try a live mouse one last time and what do ya know? He ate it! Hoorayyy! Just thought I should let you guys know. Thank you so much for all of your input. I'm really glad that your suggestions ended up working. =)

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Originally Posted by Mayhaps

Update about the update lol. I bought a frozen rat for him to eat but randomly decided to try a live mouse one last time and what do ya know? He ate it! Hoorayyy! Just thought I should let you guys know. Thank you so much for all of your input. I'm really glad that your suggestions ended up working. =)

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Always nice when the difficult ones eat for ya.

Just for future reference I would invest in a good set of digital scales, they are complete life savers. Some BP's can fast from November - April I have heard from breeders and during this time watching their weight can be quite important. Also, I have a yearling het albino who has lost 50g in a bowel movement; I mention this only so that you are aware that what can seem like a daunting amount of weight loss to us really probably isn't that much! The movement of urates during a fast is a good sign and also may affect weight negatively. Looking at the photos that you posted your boy looks to be in very good shape and looks healthy in both to me, I don't see any worrying weight loss. I know this isn't too important now as he is eating again but thought I would chime in.

As for cohabiting (I read you separated them so this is just my opinion)- Males, as has been mentioned, should not really be housed together. I think the issue being there are more cons than pro's to this situation. It can be difficult to know which snake has defecated/urinated etc and should one get sick the other is at much higher risk, amongst other cons such as fighting for dominance etc. Whilst it has been done, and done successfully, it is just something I think carries a higher level of risk than simply having them solitary. While snakes may look to be "cuddling" they are in fact just wanting the same spot in the tank. I am in no means having a go, I hope you don't think I am, just giving my opinion on what I have read and researched as well as numerous conversations with keeper's and breeders. :)

I am very surprised you cannot find a set of scales for his weight, a good set of digital kitchen scales should be able to weigh him. Perhaps someone can point you in the right direction for this?

Finally, congratulations on getting him to feed! It can be a nerve-wrecking experience when a snake won't eat and I understand the feeling of relief when they do!