Anxanthic snakes

I'm in the market for a new snake I really want an Anxanthic something not sure yet. My question to you all is which line stays its typical black and white color ive seen some that look like a normals really quick. I guess what I'm trying to say is who/ which lines have the best Anxanthic snakes that keep there color. Thanks in advance


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Well I believe the general concensus is that VPI line axanthics keep their color the best. Although there can be exceptional versions of the other lines that look just as good and keep their color, just as there can be poor examples of the VPI., I think in General VPI is more known for consistently for keeping its colors better into adulthood.
There is also the much more recent Black Axanthic also from VPI, which seems to stay more jet black rather than the greys and silvers of the normal axanthics, tho that project would require a far greater chunk of money if you wanted a visual.

I would have to agree and say VPI is the best line of axanthic

add fire, that helps a lot with the browning out.

I do have a male axanthic possible het genetic stripe currently available so depending where you are located we could discuss that, his dad is pictured in my pairing thread breeding a gstripe if you want to see how well he has held his colors

Agreed with post above if you want quality anxantic stock VPI would be the source to seek out. If you have any questions or want pictures shoot them an email. Their response time it's almost instantly and they always go out there way to assist you! I really like them and would recommend them to anyone looking for high quality snakes.

Yep. I chose VPI for the same reasons, and because more people want VPI and I want to have a good base of people to sell future hatchlings to. If you want a pure black and white snake, that's the reason in chasing axanthic fireflies in my first season ;)

I'm with everyone else, VPI line tend to stay more black and grey. However, with each morph there are good and bad examples! You may want to ask for pictures of the parents to guess about how yours will turn out in the future. I also second the notion of adding pastel or fire (or both!) into an axanthic combo. Those help the silvers and blacks stay that way and even get better over time!

SK Axanthics are the best IMO. VPI is just another line that everyone seems to have in their collections. They brown out just like all the other lines of Axanthic. Adding Fire does help with this.

I've had VPI and SK. Though the SK line is nice, they just don't compare to VPI as adults. This is one of our Pastel VPI girls. She is around 2000 grams.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psa0e5e77b.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps91b8a52e.jpg

Not sure if they are available easily where you are but, MJ Axanthics from Markus Jayne, you have to see his Lightning Pied. Holy drool, it had some good size on it and I could see no browning occurring. This will be the line I with most likely end up working with when I get into the Axanthics.
It would be interesting to see if his line is compatible with the newer and rather pricey Black Axanthic (which is another drool worthy snake).

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Not sure if they are available easily where you are but, MJ Axanthics from Markus Jayne, you have to see his Lightning Pied. Holy drool, it had some good size on it and I could see no browning occurring. This will be the line I with most likely end up working with when I get into the Axanthics.
It would be interesting to see if his line is compatible with the newer and rather pricey Black Axanthic (which is another drool worthy snake).

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No they will not be compatible

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Originally Posted by EME

No they will not be compatible

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Who tested and proved that out? Last I spoke with Mark he did say he had verified the other known axanthics were not compatible but, to my knowledge the MJ and VPI Black have never been tried.

I would have to agree that MJ line anxanthics are probably your best bet for balls. But IMO if you want to get in to anxanthic snakes that aren't for the most part just a huge disappointment get some sand boas. They hold that amazing juvenile colour there entire lives. Way better then most bp's that unless you know what your looking for and squint one eye, basically look like normals within the first year.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

I would have to agree that MJ line anxanthics are probably your best bet for balls. But IMO if you want to get in to anxanthic snakes that aren't for the most part just a huge disappointment get some sand boas. They hold that amazing juvenile colour there entire lives. Way better then most bp's that unless you know what your looking for and squint one eye, basically look like normals within the first year.

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Sorry but I disagree completely, not unlike boas when you have nice examples of the morph they stay black and silver

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/...ps36f1c2f0.jpg


That's the same as arguing lavenders look the same as regular albinos

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Originally Posted by EME

Sorry but I disagree completely, not unlike boas when you have nice examples of the morph they stay black and silver

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/...ps36f1c2f0.jpg


That's the same as arguing lavenders look the same as regular albinos

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That probably would have been more convincing if you hadn't posted a picture of a black and brown snake. And sadley that is actually a good example of a nice adult. :(

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

I would have to agree that MJ line anxanthics are probably your best bet for balls. But IMO if you want to get in to anxanthic snakes that aren't for the most part just a huge disappointment get some sand boas. They hold that amazing juvenile colour there entire lives. Way better then most bp's that unless you know what your looking for and squint one eye, basically look like normals within the first year.

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The MJ line is very nice, but they are difficult to get ahold of and the number of people working with them is quite small compared to VPI. And while you are (partially) correct that the single gene animals can look a bit 'meh' as adults, they are spectacular in combinations. I certainly won't be trading this (VPI) girl in for a sand boa any time soon! http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/...psbe47de8a.jpg

From what I have noticed, MJ are the most brown as adults. I believe the reason you don't see many of them around is because they just don't look as nice. It is all subjective and you should choose the line you think is most appealing. For me, VPI is the first choice.

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psb8bcdf96.jpg
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps572cc0cd.jpg

I think the quality of the snakes in question is a better determination than the line itself. Most people like the VPI best and a lot of people have VPI. However I have seen some absolutely fabulous SK axanthics from JD Constriction. I have a couple of SK axanthics now, and though they aren't the greatest, they aren't all together bad either. My male is better than my female. I'm hoping to add an SK axanthic from JD Constriction some day in the future.

Best axanthic I have seen in real life was jolliff line and thats the line generally people say is the worst, 1200 grams and no brown I thought it was awesome. Each line has stunning examples and not so great examples. VPI is the most common and why I would recommend sticking with them, just more available to pick and choose from. As for one line being better than the other quality wise, Their all on par with each other imo.

which lines are compatible with VPI?

maybe the way to go would be to get good examples of VPI, SK and Joliff and MJ and then just breed them and pick the best of the best babies as holdbacks. of course that only works if they are compatible.

basically the good old line-breeding game: select excellent examples to start out with, breed, produce a lot, hold back the best you get, and so on. with hypo, people mix regular/unbranded hypo with named lines all the time, and it has advanced to a degree that you can asks for a specific line if it will be compatible with regular hypo. and the question makes sense and you get an answer.

how is it with axanthic? are there mixed axanthics, with different lines in them, or something you could call regular axanthic?

As far as I know none of the lines are compatible

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I don't know about mj, but the main 3 are not compatible with each other.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

which lines are compatible with VPI?

maybe the way to go would be to get good examples of VPI, SK and Joliff and MJ and then just breed them and pick the best of the best babies as holdbacks. of course that only works if they are compatible.

basically the good old line-breeding game: select excellent examples to start out with, breed, produce a lot, hold back the best you get, and so on. with hypo, people mix regular/unbranded hypo with named lines all the time, and it has advanced to a degree that you can asks for a specific line if it will be compatible with regular hypo. and the question makes sense and you get an answer.

how is it with axanthic? are there mixed axanthics, with different lines in them, or something you could call regular axanthic?

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VPI has 2 lines.
The standard well known VPI Axanthic and the VPI Black Axanthic (which is not supposed to brown out with age, much like the MJ line which is why I asked if anyone had bred to check the compatibility of those 2 lines).
I've only personally seen VPI, TSK and MJ, the others only photos. Of those snakes I've seen I have found good snakes in both VPI and TSK lines that were very good examples of an axanthic morph and in both lines some very brown examples. I have yet to see a brown MJ or a photo even of a brown VPI Black Axanthic(but these haven't been around that long so not a ton of people have grown out examples).

I'm pretty sure VPI, TSK and MJ lines are all non-compatible. You do have a point about line breeding, animals with strong blacks, and little brown (in non-axanthic these should be the brighter yellow animals) would lend themselves well to that project. Infact, this is just a guess but, I would think that attention to this detail is responsible for the better examples of VPI and TSK I have seen and lack of attention is a contributing factor to the less than stellar examples.

I have found the exact opposite. I have yet to see an MJ that didn't look like most normals.....being very brown. The reason the VPI line is most popular and well known is because they tend to look the best as adults. MJ axanthics are not readily available because most people do not find them appealing. I am only going on what I have seen and what other breeders say. Again, I have had both SK and VPI(currently), and the VPI is better in my opinion. I got my SK directly from Dan and they were breeders they sold off because of combo holdbacks...so to say the least, they were as nice as it comes with the SK line. Any way you look at it, the debate will continue for eternity.lol. Just pick the line you like best.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I have found the exact opposite. I have yet to see an MJ that didn't look like most normals.....being very brown. The reason the VPI line is most popular and well known is because they tend to look the best as adults. MJ axanthics are not readily available because most people do not find them appealing. I am only going on what I have seen and what other breeders say. Again, I have had both SK and VPI(currently), and the VPI is better in my opinion. I got my SK directly from Dan and they were breeders they sold off because of combo holdbacks...so to say the least, they were as nice as it comes with the SK line. Any way you look at it, the debate will continue for eternity.lol. Just pick the line you like best.

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Then in all honesty, I do not think you have ever seen an MJ Axanthic.
I live 20 minutes from Mark Mandic(the originator of MJ Axanthics and, have seen his snakes on several occasions and have yet to see any or any that others have purchased from him brown out), I've asked him specifically about this issue.
Granted they are less common so there are fewer examples to compare but, even when not mixed with "cleaner" genes all that I have seen have held colour very well.

And, I will say I have seen some very nice TSK line snakes but, I have seen more nice VPI's. And, I've seen some pretty bad examples of both. I believe (but this is just a hypothesis not anything proven in any manner) that attention to detail may have been responsible for the good examples in both lines.

Thanks guys for all the replies. As of right now I think I'm going to do some more research on this looking at adult and baby pics of each and go from there. You guys have beautiful snakes I appreciate all of the help.Thanks again.

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thanks for the replies :)

but its not really what i expected. so when you breed two different lines together, you only get normal-looking double hets. and you could go for double recessives. and axanthics that are not durther identified, like rescues, are basically just an enormous gamble.

its a bit strange, because albinos have some chance to just pop up randomly, and then they are all compatible, because its basically just one broken gene. and isnt axanthic supposed to be when the ability to make yellow/brown is broken? it doesnt really follow the pattern, compared to other species or compared to albino. maybe thats why they all brown out: BPs just have several ways to make yellow or brown color, and knocking out just one method to produce yellow/brown is not enough.

that leads to an obvious question: if the lines are really incompatible, and all suffer from some browning out, what about double recessives?

It just comes down to what the gene at a certain locus saying to do, compared to everything else also trying do something. There could potentially be hundreds of loci that can say reduce yellow pigment and we only have a handful of mutated genes to do that. The 3 lines appear to be at different loci, but basically all say the same thing. Even if they do act a little differently, abino and lav albino still get rid of the black pigment. There is still a potential there are more loci that can do the same thing as albino or lav albino, we just haven't discovered them yet or someone didn't think it was worth pursuing.

I don't think the double recessive axanthic would change much personally, the browning out we see is a natural ball python thing, normals brown out as they grow up, its more extreme to see the browning out in pastels just because they are yellow instead of already a shade of brown. Imo pastel actually does reduce the browning out a little bit, but its just so much more than compared to normal that we don't see it that way. We do have a handful of genes which reverse that though, like fire, which is why fire axanthics are so good looking even as adults, but then firefly axanthics look even better.

Also with the double recessive, besides people fearing a dead end project, there is also the annoyance of producing unknown lines of axanthic. Which I doubt anyone would buy at this point, so you are stuck with them, on top of never knowing what the 1/16 double recessive looks like. Now is there a chance it turns out to be something awesome... sure, but I think most would agree it is unlikely.

I would agree, lots of risks to trying a double homozygous axanthic project. And even if you ever did get one and confirmed it after years of breeding where would you go from there? If you crossed it with another mutation you would be starting over. Would still love to see it just in case it produced the holy grail axanthic phenotype but guess it's not likely to be tried or prove out extra nice.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Then in all honesty, I do not think you have ever seen an MJ Axanthic.
I live 20 minutes from Mark Mandic(the originator of MJ Axanthics and, have seen his snakes on several occasions and have yet to see any or any that others have purchased from him brown out), I've asked him specifically about this issue.
Granted they are less common so there are fewer examples to compare but, even when not mixed with "cleaner" genes all that I have seen have held colour very well.

And, I will say I have seen some very nice TSK line snakes but, I have seen more nice VPI's. And, I've seen some pretty bad examples of both. I believe (but this is just a hypothesis not anything proven in any manner) that attention to detail may have been responsible for the good examples in both lines.

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Must be a different line of "MJ" Axanthic. I was under the impression Mike Jolliff was the founder of the MJ line, which I have seen many many times. It could be that we are indeed talking about different lines.

Ohhh, I never thought of Mike Jolliff and Marcus Jayne (company) having the same initials. I'm pretty sure Raven01 is talking about the Marcus Jayne line (Canadian Mark M. and his wife Jayne). I remember when Marcus Jayne unexpectedly produced an axanthic pied. I didn't realize it was later determined to be a new gene. I also didn't realize Brandon was thinking of the Jolliff line.

Anyone have the Marcus Jayne line in the US? Look forward to it and the Black Axanthic (VPI) becoming more common.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Must be a different line of "MJ" Axanthic. I was under the impression Mike Jolliff was the founder of the MJ line, which I have seen many many times. It could be that we are indeed talking about different lines.

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Yes, we are absolutely discussing 2 separate lines.
I have been using "MJ" to denote Markus Jayne Ball Pythons line. I have not personally seen anything other than photos of Jolliff myself but, from those photos that I have seen I do not doubt your position that these seem to really brown out.

So, you understand which snakes I am referring to check out this guys critters. I drool every time I see his booth, even more so since he's partnered up and is into boa's now too.
https://www.facebook.com/markusjayne.ballpythons

The Lightning Pied, Pastel Lightning Pied, and Butter Blade Clown are just unreal.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Yes, we are absolutely discussing 2 separate lines.
I have been using "MJ" to denote Markus Jayne Ball Pythons line. I have not personally seen anything other than photos of Jolliff myself but, from those photos that I have seen I do not doubt your position that these seem to really brown out.

So, you understand which snakes I am referring to check out this guys critters. I drool every time I see his booth, even more so since he's partnered up and is into boa's now too.
https://www.facebook.com/markusjayne.ballpythons

The Lightning Pied, Pastel Lightning Pied, and Butter Blade Clown are just unreal.

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I see we were discussing different lines.lol. I will also agree with you the Marcus Jayne critters are smokin' axanthics. I didn't know they were altogether a different line.....so that would make 5 separate Axanthic strains now. This could get confusing for people getting into the axanthic game if they don't do their homework. It's already bad enough for me and I've been in the game since albinos were the only morph. After the first 1000 combos I kinda stopped paying close attention.lol.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I've had VPI and SK. Though the SK line is nice, they just don't compare to VPI as adults. This is one of our Pastel VPI girls. She is around 2000 grams. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psa0e5e77b.jpghttp://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...ps91b8a52e.jpg

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Beautiful girl.

I have one of Brandon's VPI's that is around 500gr. I know he's still small but he is just as bright and dark as the day I received him. :gj:
I would post a pick but I just fed him.
Give me a day and I'll download a pic.

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Originally Posted by Wizard

I have one of Brandon's VPI's that is around 500gr. I know he's still small but he is just as bright and dark as the day I received him. :gj:
I would post a pick but I just fed him.
Give me a day and I'll download a pic.

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you need to really REALLY switch back your profile pic to some image of Sid Haig.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...px-Sidhaig.PNG

Really. Maybe not as evil as last time, but jack nicholson just fails to fill the gap left behind. A deranged looking Jack Nicholsin is less scary than an interested or happy looking Sid Haig. (for the mods: the wikimedia foundation does allow hotlinks, no problem here, the wikimedia foundation is an excellent filehoster and they make it clear that this is accepted.)

about the axanthics: i simply cannot believe that there are more than 3 incompatible lines, its just too weird. let alone 4 or 5 distinct incompatible lines. when you say 5 lines, i am sure some will turn out to be compatible. the question is: which ones?

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

about the axanthics: i simply cannot believe that there are more than 3 incompatible lines, its just too weird. let alone 4 or 5 distinct incompatible lines. when you say 5 lines, i am sure some will turn out to be compatible. the question is: which ones?

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As far as I am aware, none of the 5 are compatible. Very interesting to say the least. I know of at least two lines of hypo that are not compatible. There are similar genes in cornsnakes as well, 3 lines of Axanthics, and 2 or 3 lines of hypo.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Yes, we are absolutely discussing 2 separate lines.
I have been using "MJ" to denote Markus Jayne Ball Pythons line. I have not personally seen anything other than photos of Jolliff myself but, from those photos that I have seen I do not doubt your position that these seem to really brown out.

So, you understand which snakes I am referring to check out this guys critters. I drool every time I see his booth, even more so since he's partnered up and is into boa's now too.
https://www.facebook.com/markusjayne.ballpythons

The Lightning Pied, Pastel Lightning Pied, and Butter Blade Clown are just unreal.

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Oh phew, I thought I was losing my mind for a second when I saw the comments about them browning out. These were the MJ axanthics I was referring to in my previous post (about them being awesome), but since there aren't really that many available I went VPI. I stand by my previous assertation though, none of the lines (with very few exceptions) is particularly exciting as a single gene animal, but if you combine them with other codom genes wisely they can be stunning regardless of the line.

I've seen great examples of every line, it's all about selective breeding. You breed a pretty axanthic to an ugly dull axanthic/normal it's going to have an effect on the offspring.

I would personally stick with a nice vpi or sk because they are easy to come by, and those are the two lines I have seen age very well (of course I have seen a few vpis and sks who look like garbage).

My sk axanthic. I got her from jdconstriction, he has excellent examples of just about every line of axanthic.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/31/9e7yvana.jpg


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All lines can be great but I just love VPI

I know this is an old thread, but the list of Axanthic lines is most complete here that I can find. In this thread its stated that there are 5 lines of axanthic. Here are the four I found - what is the fifth? And is there a sixth or seventh?

MJ Axanthic (Markus Jayne)
VPI Axanthic
TSK Axanthic (SK Axanthic)
Joliff Axanthic

First day I picked up my Vpi axanthic female she's in shed
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...04cc0f0d32.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...a12a803950.jpg around 6 months old
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...b2670a47d1.jpg Here is her now at just over a year old :) loving the color

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My VPI ball python is 5 years old and is still silver and not brown! :)

Ooh pretty!!

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Originally Posted by SamO

I know this is an old thread, but the list of Axanthic lines is most complete here that I can find. In this thread its stated that there are 5 lines of axanthic. Here are the four I found - what is the fifth? And is there a sixth or seventh?

MJ Axanthic (Markus Jayne)
VPI Axanthic
TSK Axanthic (SK Axanthic)
Joliff Axanthic

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Still looking to document the fifth line of axanthic. Does anyone know the name?

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Originally Posted by SamO

Still looking to document the fifth line of axanthic. Does anyone know the name?

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I think you got all of them ive never heard of a fifth line

Theirs like 7 lines from what j was told I'll try and find out the other but Markus Jane and is believed to be the same as one that isn't listed as Markus Jayne got his from a guy in the us

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I did alot of research on axanthic before picking one and boy did that make my brain hurt and after I bought one I heard of 3 other lines but not all proven

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