My how the rats squealed....

:shock: Well,
I fed my Apok and Oracle their first rats and it was indeed eyeopening - This was their first feeding on live rats so I first scented the rats by holding them with the adult mice that were slated to be fed to Cypher and Trinity ( Trinity seems to have not recognized that rats are a prey item yet, she will totally ignore them ) and then introduced them to my big male and female in their respective feeding boxes. The reaction was immediate and frightening. Both Ball Pythons seized their rats and immediately began constricting. The rats screamed and struggled futilely for about 30 seconds before succumbing to the steel hard loops of the Ball
Pythons. :twisted:

I watched carefully to see that they were able to ingest the much larger rats with no problem and have continued to monitor my BPs to make sure that there has been no regurgitation problems. So far so good. I now have to see if I can tempt Trinity into accepting a rat - she IS big enough but her search picture/scent recognition is geared for large adult mice. She has not put one and one together and come up with "RAT" as far as her prey targeting goes. Well, snakes are NOT mental giants I would suppose... :wink: Cypher is still kind of a small guy and I really dont think he is gonna be a real big Ball Python anyhow...he might stay on adult mice for good.

EyeLashViper

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Originally Posted by EyeLashViper

The rats screamed and struggled futilely for about 30 seconds before succumbing to the steel hard loops of the Ball
Pythons. :twisted:

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Um, this is one of the reasons I don't feed live, that sounds horrible. Why are you feeding live?

Personally, I don't care to feed live myself.

The risk of injury to the snake is not worth it. I feel it's best to humanely euthanize the prey, or at least put it to sleep with co2. No injury to the snake and it's less traumatizing for the prey.

Just my 2 cents.

I can tell of my experiences with feeding live, which should be enough to convince any reasonable person to not do it again. When I got Gunther a year or so ago, he was eating live mice at the store, so I continued to feed live. One time, even though the mouse was "stunned" by me by whacking it against a table, the mouse still managed to bite the snake while he was constricting it, on the side of his neck. The poor snake recoiled in pain and surprise, and actually would not eat for a few whole months after that. I had to leave dead mice in there overnight to get any feeding response from him. Luckily, there was no bleeding/scarring from the bite, but I think that it left harmful mental damage that had to be the cause of him going off-feed. I have gotten him to accept f/t rat babies now, but he is still my most "iffy" eater.

I agree, f/t is the safest most humane way to go. It's at least worth the effort to try to convert to f/t. I've heard of the occasional few that simply will not be converted, but in most cases it's a relatively easy transition. If not f/t, at least try p/k...live prey is not worth the risk IMO.

At least go p/k man just don't play roulette with live.

Thats one of the main reasons i switched from live to p/k , i cant stand to see the poor mouse suffer, even if it is just for a few seconds. I would rather give it a good wack and not have to worry about my snake getting hurt and plus i dont feel like a bad person after every feeding.

I think that the live vs dead feeding debate will be an active topic as long as snakes are kept in captivity. There are a LOT of people out there who feed live, for whatever reasons. I got my bp from a set store, and even though they specialize in reptiles and know tons about husbandy, live feeders are a cash cow for them and had me feeding live until I came here and learned the risks involved, and the benefits of feeding p/k or f/t prey. Lets be honest, its pretty thrilling to watch a live feeding. Hopefully its not like you get satisfaction from seeing a rodent get killed- its not about that hopefully- but more of your own little piece of nature going onright before your eyes.

F/t or p/k is the safer, less thrilling way to go about feeding, and is practiced by more experienced keepers whom have had that thrill wear off a little and are more focused on safetly, health, and longevity of their pets.

But for those who still want to feed live, as I'm sure you already know- use extreme caution and don't you dare look away until that rodent turns into a lump in your boid's belly. And be prepared to intervene quickly if you have to. I think having to subdue a struggling rodent is much worse than quickly bashing it on a table. Have any of you ever had to basically strangle a biting rat because your snake only wrapped around its legs and left the whole upper body to do as it pleases? Its isn't ANY fun at all.

I get a thrill from watching my snakes eating F/T, I don't know if its the same for you guys.
The risk of feeding "Live" is to great for my beautiful snakes :(

I hear ya - very good points of course. For larger snakes it is also a good idea to try to diminish contricting behavior for future safety concerns. Our Af Rock Neph is going to be a beast eventually - and I'd like her to be as used to eating pre-killed as much as possible so she no longer feels the need to constrict nor associates it with feeding activity. Acouple of our balls and black blood have developed a very non-chalant approach to feeding time - namely just sidle on up to the rat and start swallowing - the black blood has just held up his head with mouth open like a baby bird a couple of times. Sure it's not exactly "the thrill of victory and the agony of de feet" but I prefer to think I am feeding them for health and growth as opposed to a form of entertainment.

Obitus, kinda strikes at the mouse ... to pull it from my forceps.
Lets it fall to the floor, and then starts looking for its head.
Didn't constrict it at all, but its still beautiful watching her take it down.

My bp eats f/t but still constricts. Might just be a result of "the rat dance" though, haha

If I make the rat dance with my forceps, it will constrict it.

EyeLashViper. Please don't take the responses to this thread as ridicule. Ultimately we are all responsible for our own herps but it would not be right for us to let this go knowing it could potentialy harm your herp. So in other words we are just trying to look out for you pets.

Now that you are feeding rats they are going to grow weeds. Its not usually neccesary to scent a rat ball pythons love rats.

And not to sound monotonous but please feed Fresh Killed.

our snakes seem to constrict no matter what type so far. roswell has constricted even harder and longer with the last 2 which were his first f/t mice. i think he wants to make sure it is good and dead, or the rat dance is a bit stronger then the gentle rat feet walking aorund., and he feels he has to work harder to take it down. maybe he thinks my thumpung the rat around is the rat, but bigger and stronger. i love f/t it is a bit more work at the time of feeding, but well worth it. besides i cut down on weekly trips to the pet store. i was feeding live before coming here, and the petstore was doing the same. roswell has the scars (sort of) to prove it. they are fading with each shed, but he had some nice sized gashes from mice fighting back. before i got him of course. when i did feed him live mice i kept a close eye, and tongs at the ready. i think if you saw the damage even a tiny mouse could do, you would change right away.

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Have any of you ever had to basically strangle a biting rat because your snake only wrapped around its legs and left the whole upper body to do as it pleases? Its isn't ANY fun at all.

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I didnt have to strangle it, but one time Monty Joe only had the back portion of the rat in its coils and I had to put the stick, that I allways have handy just in case, into the rats mouth to keep it from biting him and that rat bit onto that stick for a long time before he finally succomed to the constriction.
I only fed live this time because he refused to eat f/k after eating f/k 2 feeding's prior. I tried for a couple of weeks to get him to eat another f/k but he refused so I decided to try live....and that's all it took. But the next feeding he went back to f/k so he is just a picky one I guess. Luckily if Monty Joe refuses a f/k meal I just toss it to Cheetah. He has never refused a f/k meal, dont even have to do the rat dance, just toss it in and he will eat it.
I definatly believe in feeding f/k or f/t, but some times you just have to do what is needed, just allways be prepared to intervene...just in case.

Ironhead did you just put the rat in there or did you use tongs?

Ironhead, I agree with you...getting a snake to eat is a whole different story. I was just talking in the context of consistant live feedings.

Ah...okay, okay...I get the message. I will be honest though in that I DO like watching mice and rats get taken down. Whether that makes me a monster or not I am not sure. I used to feed live fuzzy mice to my centipedes and I always thought it was cool to see these ferocious invertebrates eat a live mouse. I am kind of twisted in that way I guess. I do hear you all though about feeding pre-killed but sheesh..it is so hard to get them to take pre-killed...I have tried numerous times in the past and was always unsuccessful.Maybe I am doing something wrong...
EyeLashViper

Feeding live as a last resort is one thing, feeding live for the thrill of it is another. :?

Allright....I admit it ...I am a monster....I have sinned. I even used to feed live mice to my tarantulas...now THAT is a sight to be seen..a big spider taking down an adult mouse. I guess I am somewhat of a throwback to my invertebrate days because spiders and centipedes will only take live prey. It is always a gruesome sight but highly entertaining. As far as whether this is appropriate or not I always remind myself that nature in the raw is a nasty thing. Out in the wild animals do not eat in cute ways...look at lions for instance when the pull down a zebra - there aint nothing nice about it...they rip its throat out and start eating it while it is still alive and kicking...
EyeLashViper

Yeah but in nature the prey has a chance to get away. Here you're putting a live rat in a box where it basically has no choice but to suffer a horrible death. Not to mention the potential injury it could cause your snake. At least with p/k, f/t, the animal is killed quickly and humainly. Don't get me wrong, I hate rats, I don't have any warm fuzzy feelings for them, but I think feeding a live rat just to get a kick out of it is sick. Just my opinion.