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Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
I have a very small hatchling that came from the runt egg in my clutch, she has been assist fed since a month after hatching. She has been progressing well, just doesn't seem to recognise what food is unless you stick the very first part of the head in her mouth, then she'll chomp down on it. Otherwise it is treated like furniture. I have not had to use tools to feed her for a long time, just push the pinkie against her lip until the jaws open and then she takes it.
Tonight she was very resistant to handling, I thought this was due to my offering her her first rat pink (a very very small one, born today, was the same size as the small fuzzies she's been getting) and that she just didn't like it. She finally took it, and as I went to place her back in her tub, I noticed a funny spot on her neck, like a little fold of skin. It turned put to be a tear or cut in her skin!
It's about 2 cm back from the base of her skull on the right hand side, approximately 6-7 mm long running at an approximately 45 degree angle. When her head is turned to the left, it pulls open ~3 mm, when her head is straight ~1 mm, and it is closed if her head is turned right. The tissue visible in the wound is scaleless, smooth, and slivery white colored, I did not see any blood on her, in her tub, on her tub liner, on my hand, or around the wound, but she looked uncomfortable (was curled up after feeding, normally she roams about for a few minutes). I would take a picture, but I want to minimize her stress and she's gone into her warm hide.
She is housed in a sterilite tub, on white heavy-duty paper liner (the reptizorb liners), with two of the little black plastic hides (reptile basics), and a small blue ceramic bowl. I think I would have noticed if she was fighting me hard enough to tear her own skin while feeding, and her prey was not oversized (I cannot see any possible way that swallowing it overstretched her neck skin, in fact I keep her meals on the small side). The fact that she seemed grumpy from the start makes me think she was already injured and I somehow missed it, but I cannot find any rough sufaces in her tub that could have done this!
I got an answering machine at the exotic vet's office, so I couldn't get her in tonight, but we'll be there when they open tomorrow morning. I wiped down every surface in her tub, hides, and bowl with F10, filled the bowl with distilled water, and put in a fresh liner to try to fend off any bacteria. Is there anything else I can do to make her more comfortable until tomorrow morning? Should I keep the humidity low to keep the wound dry tonight (and not feed any bacteria) or high to keep the tissue flexible? I have neosporin (the non-painkiller kind) and betadine, should I swab it with one of those? I don't want to cause her any more pain right now. Is the silverish tissue the dermis (do snakes have a dermis?) or is that deeper connective tissue?
Sorry for the essay, I'm just so worried about her, as well as absolutely mortified that this happened to an animal under my care, and very anxious that I can't work out how it happened (I mean how can I prevent it happening again if I don't know how it occurred in the first place).
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Ask your vet about hydrotherapy. I had a similar issue and did in home hydrotherapy and it healed up very nicely. Mine was also on the throat area. Is it just the scales or all the way down to the muscle?
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I think it's just the top layer of skin or cartilage-type layer right underneath that. The exposed part underneath is a silvery color and doesn't seem to have much blood supply. I would think if it was the muscle it would be pinker and have some blood/bleeding, but I'm not certain.
Edited to Add: It's after 1 am now, so I'm going to try to sleep a bit. I'll report back tomorrow when we return from the vet.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Just wait till you get her to the vet before you start speculating on what happened. They have very delicate skin as tiny babies. Just get her into the vet and they will fix her up.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
I could be way off, but in people, silvery tissue like you describe is usually tendon or ligament. DEFINITELY calls for a vet visit. In the meantime, keep the wound clean and dry, and if possible move her into a cage with paper towel substrate. I don't know that I would mess with humidity, as long as it's already correct. If you change substrate at the first sign of anything unsanitary, you should be good as far as bacteria go.
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Best of luck on your vet visit, I hope you get some type of explanation on how it could have occurred! please do keep us updated, I have no personal commentary on maintaining it til her vet visit, but my thoughts are with you!
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I feel bad for any animal in distress..hope all goes well
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Hope the vet visit goes well!
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Curious weren't you,lol^^^
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
I'm commenting to follow the thread, so I really don't have anything to add except I hope she's doing well.
And good on you for getting her to a vet right away! :gj:
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Update post vet visit
I decided to take her to the vet in her little tub (I just took her bowl out and put the lid on) which turned out to have been a good idea. It's a sterilite tub and there is a small ledge where the handles attach and he said it was likely the cause of the injury (apparently he had seen something very similar before). Basically if she was hanging out up there on the ledge, pressed against the roof, and I pulled the tub open her skin and some of her neck probably got caught in the little gap between the top of the tub and the ceiling. Since the injury looks like a tear rather than a cut, and some bruising came up around it he thinks this is what happened. The bruising came up this morning and was not visible last night when I fed, so the injury probably happened when I first opened her tub to offer her the pinkie.
I honestly don't remember if she was up there or not at the time, but I have seen her do it in the past so I am assuming she was since I cannot find any other explanation and it matches the injury. It never occurred to me that her skin could catch in the gap since the tubs fit really snugly in that rack, but she is a very small baby (hatched at 32g, got to 29g, and is up to 60g now).
Treatment at this point is basically keep her and her environment very clean, so I will be F10-ing everything and changing her paper twice a day to keep any bacteria at bay. The edges of the tear had mostly closed back together this morning by itself, but he said since the wound was shallow and her baby skin is so thin he couldn't have stitched it anyway. He did swab it with something to clean the little part that's still open, and if she's up for it I can do a dilute betadine swab every 12 hours until it's fully closed (which looks like it might be tonight anyway). I am to watch closely for any signs of infection, swelling, or changes of color, and if I see them come back immediately to get her on antibiotics, and we'll be going back for a checkup in a week regardless. I wanted to start antibiotics anyway, but he gently reminded me that I would have to do it by injection when she's already pretty stressed out (and also very tiny and thus trickier to inject correctly) and that prophylactic antibiotic use is what breeds resistant bacteria. Her prognosis at this point is good, he expects a full recovery and the mark should go away in a shed or two.
She seems perkier today, which is a relief. I'm going to go measure the rack slots and then head to the store and see if I can find replacement tubs with no ledge. I am mortified that I have injured an animal that I am supposed to be nurturing, and I hope others can learn from my mistake. It doesn't matter if you're rushed, or feeding one snake or 200, pay attention, slow down, and look where they are and what they are doing.
ETA: thanks for the happy thoughts and good wishes everyone, I'll keep updating as she progresses.
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Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Glad she's going to be ok. :) The little diva makes her life rough. Thanks for the warning. I'm looking to add a small rack and will pay attention when opening tubs.
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Here is a quick pic from ipad (awful camera, so the colors are WAY off), the bruise looks worse in the pic than real life since this thing seems to pic up a lot of red. I might try to get a better pic tonight with the good camera, but for now I want to leave her be and stop traumatizing her.
http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/...ps0ec85148.jpg
And here is the offending tub ledge, there is about a 1/8 inch gap between the top of the tub and the rack. Too small for a regular size hatchling to get caught (because they would still be in 6qt tubs then, not 15 qt) but since she's so little that was likely enough of a gap to catch her wee neck (not sure why the pic is upsidedown, but priority at the moment is to go find new tubs).http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/...ps07feb400.jpg
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Thanks for the update. It sounds like you've got a good vet who was able to spot the cause, not just treat the injury.
Please don't be so hard on yourself! I'm sure I would feel the same way if it happened to my animal, but you did everything right to take care of the baby and get her to the vet right away. Also it's very good of you to warn others about a potential problem.
I hope you keep on updating with her progress.
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Thanx for the update, glad she looking up already!!
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Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Glad everything turned out okay for your little one :)
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Wow glad she's gonna be alright. Things happen, don't be hard on yourself because she got hurt. It was an accident. You didn't intentionally injure her. Also it sounds like you have a very good knowledgeable vet. Keep up the awesome work and keep us posted.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgemash
I think it's just the top layer of skin or cartilage-type layer right underneath that. The exposed part underneath is a silvery color and doesn't seem to have much blood supply. I would think if it was the muscle it would be pinker and have some blood/bleeding, but I'm not certain.
Edited to Add: It's after 1 am now, so I'm going to try to sleep a bit. I'll report back tomorrow when we return from the vet.
it wouldnt be cartilage...it sounds like underlying connective tissue...or tendon (usually silver/grey and very little to no blood)...muscle is usually very red or pink looking and almost always blood is involved if muscle is visible.
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Thanks everyone. Still no signs of infection, and the bruising is going down. She was out of her hide and doing her usual morning exploration routine today, so I think she's feeling a bit better.
I am also very lucky to have not one but two very good reptile specialist vets nearby, it's stuff like this that I have to remember when it's 120 degrees outside and I can't remember why I choose to live in Phoenix.
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Oh crud, apparently the stress of it all has made her go into shed (that or she just has the worst timing ever). Her neck is healing slowly, but she's in blue tonight. I just hope she doesn't reopen it trying to get her skin off. :(
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maybe the solution is to always have a flashlight ready and to look inside before you pull.
i hope it heals well and that the shed will work out alright.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgemash
Oh crud, apparently the stress of it all has made her go into shed (that or she just has the worst timing ever). Her neck is healing slowly, but she's in blue tonight. I just hope she doesn't reopen it trying to get her skin off. :(
Well, you have a vet you can trust. Obviously I don't know him, but based on your description of the visit, he sounds like a REALLY good one. He seems to be a problem solver, rather than a symptom treater. Critical thinking like that is HUGE in all medicine. So don't hesitate to call if there seem to be problems.
Aside from that, just continue to stay on top of temps, humidity, and cleanliness, and keep as close an eye on your little one as possible without adding a lot of stress. Remember, also, that with most skin issues, the shedding cycle is a key part of the healing process. We'll all keep our fingers and tails crossed, and keep us posted!
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by patientz3ro
Well, you have a vet you can trust. Obviously I don't know him, but based on your description of the visit, he sounds like a REALLY good one. He seems to be a problem solver, rather than a symptom treater. Critical thinking like that is HUGE in all medicine. So don't hesitate to call if there seem to be problems.
Aside from that, just continue to stay on top of temps, humidity, and cleanliness, and keep as close an eye on your little one as possible without adding a lot of stress. Remember, also, that with most skin issues, the shedding cycle is a key part of the healing process. We'll all keep our fingers and tails crossed, and keep us posted!
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I called already lol, he said sometimes a stressful event can trigger a shed, but there's nothing I can do to help other than keep the humidity very high to make it as easy as possible for her to get out of her skin (aka anything I try to do right now will likely make things worse). I'll update on her progress.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgemash
I called already lol, he said sometimes a stressful event can trigger a shed, but there's nothing I can do to help other than keep the humidity very high to make it as easy as possible for her to get out of her skin (aka anything I try to do right now will likely make things worse). I'll update on her progress.
If you need to keep humidity higher, but still regulated, consider a fogger. I can't even begin to tell you how much I rely on mine.
I just want to say, I've followed this thread from the very beginning, mainly because trauma medicine (people) is my passion. It's not the longest thread, but there are two things that make me grateful it's here.
First, it's a warm fuzzy to be able to pat someone on the back once in a while and tell them that they're doing everything right. Too many of these threads devolve into, "well, we ALL told you not to do that!"
Second, it's an awesome opportunity to see what happens when people actually follow husbandry advice and heed the "see a vet" chorus, then step back a bit and let an animal heal with a minimum of interference. Just goes to show how great these animals are at fixing themselves.
I suspect I'll point someone to this thread in the future as an example of how general illnesses and injuries should be taken care of.
BTW, as much as I love working with animals, I work on human patients because they need it more than animals...
People are WAY more likely to do something stupid enough to need my help!
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by patientz3ro
If you need to keep humidity higher, but still regulated, consider a fogger. I can't even begin to tell you how much I rely on mine.
Second, it's an awesome opportunity to see what happens when people actually follow husbandry advice and heed the "see a vet" chorus, then step back a bit and let an animal heal with a minimum of interference. Just goes to show how great these animals are at fixing themselves.
Ooh I'm glad you said that, you just reminded me that I actually have a fogger stashed away in the box of spare-random-reptile-stuff-that-I-might-need-one-day. I'll go set that up when I get home from work. :gj:
I am a card carrying member of the "see a vet chorus," but if there was anything I thought I could do to help her by interfering, I'd be all over it. The helpless feeling I have from not being able to perform some kind of "action" to improve the situation (that I caused in the first place) is driving me nuts.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgemash
I am a card carrying member of the "see a vet chorus," but if there was anything I thought I could do to help her by interfering, I'd be all over it. The helpless feeling I have from not being able to perform some kind of "action" to improve the situation (that I caused in the first place) is driving me nuts.
I know exactly how you feel! I'm one of the most overprotective python parents in the world, but that's what makes this a great thread. If you have another issue down the road, you're going to have this reminder of "stop messing with it or it's not going to heal!" With any luck, some kid will get a python for Christmas, read this thread, and not need to learn that the hard way!
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Just wanted to update, she shed perfectly fine with no drama. There's still a little mark where the cut was, but she's healing up steadily and she seems pretty content. :)
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
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Good to hear your baby is doing well.
And thank you very much for this thread and a close up of the tub in question. This may help someone else in the future avoid such a tub and thus the same problem. In fact, it made me go double check all my own baby tubs, thankfully none of mine have a ledge. But I have seen ones just like yours, and have thought about purchasing a few. I believe I will reconsider using this type of tub, in the name of my own over-protective snake mommy sanity.
Gale
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badgemash
Just wanted to update, she shed perfectly fine with no drama. There's still a little mark where the cut was, but she's healing up steadily and she seems pretty content. :)
Thanks so much for the update! (Just noticed it today.) I hope you'll post a photo of how she's healing if you can take one without disturbing her.
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Libby
Thanks so much for the update! (Just noticed it today.) I hope you'll post a photo of how she's healing if you can take one without disturbing her.
Sure, I had her out for a soak just now since she's got a bit of sausage butt going on at the moment. This is with my new camera, so much sharper detail than the old one. It's still a bit hard to tell in this though, but you can just see the little cream-colored scab covering where the tear is. There was just a little missing spot there in the shed, but the vet said the whole thing should disappear in the next shed or two and it will come off when it's ready.
http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/...psd82375db.jpg
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Re: Oh no, need prompt advice, have had an accident
Glad it's healing nicely!
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