ASF colour guide

I think I posted this a long long time ago...

But this is a guide to all the ASF colours. You'll have to forgive me, I think I've just about forgotten all of the genetic codes, but feel free to ask and I'll try my best to explain how to create the colour combinations. :) (Scratch that, I found the chart i made a long time ago, on the internet, so I posted them! But still feel free to ask about the science of it all)
Also, I always feel it's necessary to explain that there are no ALBINO ASFs. All white ASFs with pink eyes are either pink eyed white, or ruby eyed white. The gene for albino is a recessive c/c and is a white 'cover' that covers up all the colours on the animal. The genes that make white ASFs, are variegation genes, that when bred selectively, cover up the spots on the animal pretty successfully, but it doesn't always breed true. :)

Agouti - A-
http://i.imgur.com/njIXgG9.png

Cinnamon A- bb
http://i.imgur.com/53lXNG0.png

Argente A- B- pp
http://i.imgur.com/fFVZDAP.png

Cinnamon-Argente A- bb pp (including a picture of argente and cinnamon argente next to one another)
http://i.imgur.com/IAncepP.png
http://i.imgur.com/mifY6ld.png

Head-spot variegation -- -- -- -- Ww
http://i.imgur.com/PvXvFHf.png

Saddle variegation -- -- -- -- WW
http://i.imgur.com/TvrDdwi.png

Platinum A- B- P- "Ru"- W*W*
http://i.imgur.com/3eQNwDp.png

Black Eyed White A- bb P- "Ru"- W*W*
http://i.imgur.com/9jleGSt.jpg

Pink Eyed White A- B- pp "Ru"- W*W* (this one still has one small spot, but it's the best photo I have! :P)
http://i.imgur.com/1ekB8Xi.png


Ruby Eyed White A- B- P- "ru""ru" W*W* (flash makes them look rather pink)
http://i.imgur.com/259HfAV.png

Odd Eye
http://i.imgur.com/p37LiU3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UyCYotA.jpg


Here's a list of the genes without pictures, so you can check that out.
Agouti A-
Cinnamon A- bb
Argente A- B- pp
Cinnamon-Argente A- bb pp
Ruby Eyed A- B- P- "ru""ru"
Ruby Eyed Cinnamon A- bb P- "ru""ru"
Ruby Eyed Argente A- B- pp "ru""ru"
Ruby Eyed Cinnamon-Argente A- bb pp "ru""ru"
Head-spot variegation -- -- -- -- Ww
Saddle variegation -- -- -- -- WW
Platinum A- B- P- "Ru"- W*W*
Black Eyed White A- bb P- "Ru"- W*W*
Pink Eyed White A- B- pp "Ru"- W*W*
Ruby Eyed White A- B- P- "ru""ru" W*W*
High White Head-spot variegation -- -- -- -- W*w
High White Saddle variegation -- -- -- -- W*W

There are some on here I don't have photos of. :P

Is Argente the same as Amber?
And Saddle variegation is the same as pied correct?

Yes, and no. People call them that, but it's incorrect. Argente is the proper term for an agouti animal that is diluted to 'yellow' by a pink eyed gene.

And people call the variegated ones 'pied' or 'piebald' but this is even more incorrect, as piebald is an actual gene (recessive spotting s/s). Variegation is a separate mechanism for creating spots on an animal, different that piebald/pied. It's also dominant, which differs from piebaldism.

But yes, people call argente 'amber' and people refer to the variegated varieties as 'pied' on a regular basis. :)

Thanks OP, that was very helpful I was unaware that you could link up Ambers/Argente with Cinnamons to produce different phenotypes :bow:.

I had always suspected this was the case but I can't distinguish them in person. I just started my colony about 2 months ago. I appreciate the information on the white animals as well.

So is the Piebald/Variegation a dominant gene which has other enhancer genes to make the black eye whites? I have all of the genes in my collection so how would I work towards BEW/REW is it just selectively breeding higher white piebald/Variegations? How many generations does it usually take to achieve them?

White animals are actually really easy to produce. You need to usually start with animals that are W/W , meaning they have 2 copies of the Dominant variegation gene. This usually produces an animal with a white, or mostly white head, and a brown saddle on the body "Saddled variegation". Then you breed 2 of them together, and some offspring should turn out significantly more white. I don't know why this is, and I am sorry I can't explain it more scientificaly. :confusd:

In 3 generations or so you can have animals that are mostly white with a small spot of colour. There's basically no way to get rid of the colour completely forever, but once you have animals with just a small spot, you just breed them together, or to the closest to white you have, and hope for the best. You'll get solid white animals, and some with a bit of colour still. Something about the way the Dominant gene acts when homozygous (W/W). I wish I had more detailed scientific information about the variegation genes. The colour ones are easy, the marking ones are hard.


So to make black eyed whites, you breed variegated black eyed animals. They can be cinnamon, or agouti. :)

Neat! Now i want some odd eyes on my collection!

sent from my incubator

Would you mind posting some more comparison pictures of Argente and cinnamon Argente side by side and in the same lighting? Also how can I figure out if an animal has ruby eyes? I can't really see it on mine. Is ruby eyed recessive or dom?

Appreciate all your help we should sticky this.

If I have cinn and cinn argente left I will try to get more photos. They are not easy to distinguish, one is just more silvery and lighter than the other. I can hardly tell unless they're next to each other.

As far as ruby eyed... I'm not 100% sure. I list it as a recessive but I don't really know much about the mechanism. I've only had a few ruby eyed animals so I haven't done much experimenting. It may be a side effect from another gene or series of genes. :)
If someone else finds or knows more info please share your findings! Or if you have the ruby gene in your line, please experiment and see what you find! :)


As far as identifying ruby eyes, it should be clear. The eyes will clearly not be black, and will show up pink with a flash or bright light.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 4theSNAKElady

Neat! Now i want some odd eyes on my collection!

sent from my incubator

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I tin we all do! :P

As far as we can tell it's not a regular dominant or recessive gent that causes it. But if a line produces one and you breed it back in, the line usually produces more but the rate is very very low. Low enough that you'd maybe only see one per year at best. I wonder what's going on genetic wise!! :)

I have another gene in one of my lines that produces twisted snouts or shortened faces. The most extreme was shortened an average of 1/4 inch compared to other normal ASFs.

Awesome post thank you!! If mine would ever like to start breeding I might get somewhere!!!

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I got some ASFs that are are all black but have white on their bellies And a tiny diamond on their forehead. Then I have some that are completely black with no white at all and when I say black I mean dark dark dark black.


It is weird I had 1 male and 2 females in a colony each female gave me like 6 litters. And one of those female out of all the litters she had she once had a litter of 10 where 4 of them were like I said all dark with a white belly And a white diamond on forehead. First I thought it was resesive but those when they grew up and bred to regular ASFs they made more. And now I'm getting all solid black ones and the regular ASFs that everyone has are black and white instead of brown and white. Is that normal?

Please share photos. If you have black ASFs, then you'd be the first person I know of to uncover the a/a gene. :P
I would definitely want to ship some of them here if you really do have black ones. I've heard a lot of people claim to have black, but they always end up being agouti, but I'm still hoping to see black one day!

Yeah, ive never seen black asfs either!! Pics or it didnt happen!!

sent from my incubator

ok i will go home get my camera and go to my friend place. they are breeding them at their place.. pics to come shortly....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orlandoflor

pics to come shortly....

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:popcorn:

Its not to late to post pics of those blacks ;)
I thought I'd thrown a black one recently, but am just thinking its a really dark Agouti...
Time will tell!

Yeah I haven't heard back from him. It's like the 5th time I've heard about 'black' ASFs, but I've never seen one. :(
We're bound to find a black one one day though, it's such a common gene in rodents that the possibility of it not existing is less likely than it existing and we just haven't found it.

I got some new babies that are blackish their not all black but i will post them when i get of work. I have yet to see an all black one and until its proven they dont exist!!! ;D


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Yeah the babies always look so dark from 2 agouti parents. It can be deceptive to some people.

I also can't take any more people claiming to have albino genes either, lol. I haven't seen an albino ASF and I don't think they exist in captivity right now. PEW, sure, Albino, no. It would make white ASFs so much easier to make if we had an albino gene. :/

I WISH we had a black gene... Can you imagine how handsome headspot and saddle would be on a black ASF? -swoon-
There is no black gene in deer mice either, I don't think. There's a ton of other genes for deer mice, but no black. . . You'd think black is such a basic gene, but I guess we'll have to be patient!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Yeah the babies always look so dark from 2 agouti parents. It can be deceptive to some people.

I also can't take any more people claiming to have albino genes either, lol. I haven't seen an albino ASF and I don't think they exist in captivity right now. PEW, sure, Albino, no. It would make white ASFs so much easier to make if we had an albino gene. :/

I WISH we had a black gene... Can you imagine how handsome headspot and saddle would be on a black ASF? -swoon-
There is no black gene in deer mice either, I don't think. There's a ton of other genes for deer mice, but no black. . . You'd think black is such a basic gene, but I guess we'll have to be patient!!

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I will post mine tonight and you can tell me what you think. And while there not solid black the out of 5 litters in the past month their have only been two that have a skunk look to them. Also side note this might mean something to you, these two dark ones are also the only ones with black on their tails as well. Probably doesnt mean anything just thought it was different


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Okie dokie. I have agoutis with 'black' tails, (well, they're brown tails, but still). But as of now, I have never seen any ASFs with any black fur at all, only agouti, and variations of agouti. So it would be really great to see black ones.

I'd love to take a look at 'em. :)
Basically, unless someone catches one in the wild, it's gonna have to be a spontaneous mutation out of someone's stock.

what do you think of these two guys in the middle they where solid black at about 2 weeks but their getting brighter http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps9ff62711.png

Looks like agouti (A/A), the parents and the medium light sibling look like they're cinnamon (A/A b/b) so that's why they're lighter. Then the one on the right with pink eyes is probably argente (A/A p/p). :)

Agouti can look really dark if you're used to having cinnamons! But black would have no ticking in the fur, the hair shafts would be solid coloured. The only solid coloured hair on an ASF right now, is white. Agouti is a hair is stripped (called 'ticking') down the entire hair shaft with a mix of brown and black, it gives the 'wild' color appearance. Here's an image of an agouti rabbit, but it's the same concept, it shows the striping of different colours on the hair shafts

http://www.minkhollow.ca/mhf/lib/exe..._13-12-213.jpg

then the search is on for the the epic black ASF.

After some selective breeding all my asf look like this with an occasional baby still with a single hard to see spot on the back. not albino. ruby eyes, all white.