Help with temperature

I am panicking about Oliver's tank temperature. With the probe on top of the UTH, his temp is 97. The other side of his tank is about 80. I have both heat lamps off now to try and lower his "hot" side - I'm terrified that he will burn to death. If I turn off the UTH and turn on the heat lamps, I can get his hot side in the 80s and 90s. The thermostat will be here tomorrow. I know what his ideal temps should be, but what will hurt him?

Thanks,
Nervous new mom

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

I am panicking about Oliver's tank temperature. With the probe on top of the UTH, his temp is 97. The other side of his tank is about 80. I have both heat lamps off now to try and lower his "hot" side - I'm terrified that he will burn to death. If I turn off the UTH and turn on the heat lamps, I can get his hot side in the 80s and 90s. The thermostat will be here tomorrow. I know what his ideal temps should be, but what will hurt him?

Thanks,
Nervous new mom

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When you say the probe is on top of the UTH, are you saying it's on top of the substrate, or...?

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Unplug the UTH until thermostat comes and just use the heat lamps. No part of the cage should ever get above 95° F. It only takes prolonged exposure to 108° F to cause brain damage.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Unplug the UTH until thermostat comes and just use the heat lamps. No part of the cage should ever get above 95° F. It only takes prolonged exposure to 108° F to cause brain damage.

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I would ONLY use a night lamp though. 24hrs of bright light is stressful as hell.

Another option would be to make the substrate quite a bit deeper, and possibly even put him back into the travel carrier, then put that inside the tank. Obviously that would be using the UTH and NO lamps.

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Get a thermostat for your UTH as well as a thermometer to monitor that the thermostat and UTH is accurate.....also I use a red bulb for night and a reg day bulb for the day...

What size enclosure do you have?

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

I am panicking about Oliver's tank temperature. With the probe on top of the UTH, his temp is 97. The other side of his tank is about 80. I have both heat lamps off now to try and lower his "hot" side - I'm terrified that he will burn to death. If I turn off the UTH and turn on the heat lamps, I can get his hot side in the 80s and 90s. The thermostat will be here tomorrow. I know what his ideal temps should be, but what will hurt him?

Thanks,
Nervous new mom

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This is my set up,where the UTH is,which is the hot spot I keep it at 88-91 on avg...I keep the lamp on the hot side and the watt bulb and tank I have it keeps my warm side around 84-86 and my cool side round 78.. I find when the tank is too hot he is uncomfortable. So it took a bit of messing around ,but I have found what works for hear and what I have to do for humidity as well.

good luck

I unplugged the UTH and will keep it off until the thermostat arrives. I have the evening (red) heat bulb on. I've also placed a space heater that I've used for my bird next to the tank on low heat - it should help to keep the hot side warmer, but not too warm.

I probably won't get any sleep tonight because I'm so worried about Oliver. He was very active, climbing and exploring all over the place when he arrived. Now, he won't come out of his hide. I'll be distraught if the temp problems injure him.


BTW: none of the websites and books that I've read mention a thermostat. I would have had one if I knew that I needed it.....

Yes, I know,lol..I have friends with ball pythons and boas and none of them have thermostats on there pads and a few have tanks with no pads at all,I've spoken to ppl at conventions who don't even use thermostats on there UTHs .me personally I use it,just to play it safe. I want my guy to as comfortable as he can.

You must keep the top pretty much covered 80-90% ,leave some ventilation!leave the UTH unplugged. Just to play it safe...if he is hiding that's good,he's getting comfortable..he was exploring cause it was a new surrounding to him,that's normal at first,but shouldn't be an every day thing.. My guys hides 80% of the time.

Oliver will be fine,relax,lol..he won't cook to death. Belly heat,UTH pads aren't used by everyone,there good to help and aid with digestion,but I don't think it's a must to be honest if u have overhead heat and your tank is staying warm atleast in the mid to high 80's hut u can still maintain good humidity..some ppl may Say u don't need a UTH,with a lamp,but like I said,I have both..it's wat works for your snake. Every set up can be different

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

I would ONLY use a night lamp though. 24hrs of bright light is stressful as hell.

Another option would be to make the substrate quite a bit deeper, and possibly even put him back into the travel carrier, then put that inside the tank. Obviously that would be using the UTH and NO lamps.

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This is absolutely ridiculous. 24 hours of bright light while not ideal isn't going to harm the snake, whereas an unregulated UTH could easily hurt the snake plus the fact that it is a fire risk.

Thickening the substrate layer is never recommended when using a UTH. BP's are known to dig into the substrate and sit directly on the bottom of the cage. By thickening the substrate you also risk increasing the temperature of the glass.

Lamps even white lamps are the way to go in this situation. If it was going to be more than a few days I would recommend getting an infrared heat lamp but even then a good BP cage should have a nice dark hide anyway.

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

I unplugged the UTH and will keep it off until the thermostat arrives. I have the evening (red) heat bulb on. I've also placed a space heater that I've used for my bird next to the tank on low heat - it should help to keep the hot side warmer, but not too warm.

I probably won't get any sleep tonight because I'm so worried about Oliver. He was very active, climbing and exploring all over the place when he arrived. Now, he won't come out of his hide. I'll be distraught if the temp problems injure him.


BTW: none of the websites and books that I've read mention a thermostat. I would have had one if I knew that I needed it.....

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I wouldn't worry too much. 97° F while too hot isn't going to cause any severe damage overnight. At worst a case of pink belly (think slight to moderate sunburn) as long as you can keep the cage above 75 you have nothing to worry about for that short period of time. (As long as the BP hasn't eaten in the last 24 hours)

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

I unplugged the UTH and will keep it off until the thermostat arrives. I have the evening (red) heat bulb on. I've also placed a space heater that I've used for my bird next to the tank on low heat - it should help to keep the hot side warmer, but not too warm.

I probably won't get any sleep tonight because I'm so worried about Oliver. He was very active, climbing and exploring all over the place when he arrived. Now, he won't come out of his hide. I'll be destroyed if the temp problems injure or kill him.

An an interesting note is that is site is the only place that I've read which suggests a thermostat, including books. I would have had one if I knew that I needed it.....

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Staying in the hide isn't likely a bad thing. One of the things you're going to see repeated over and over on here is that a happy python is a hiding python. I think with the night lamp on and a little heat from a space heater, you're going to be ok.

I'm sure someone is going to pipe in with the fact that you should have had everything you needed and had the tank set up BEFORE you got the little guy home... Don't let that get to you. It looks like you made quite an effort to do just that. You just didn't have the right books. Besides, you seem to have figured out that we try really hard to help each other around here. In any case, good luck, and welcome to the family.

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Thank you so much for your help and comfort. I read so many articles and books, watched YouTube videos, etc and tried to educate myself as much as I could for Oliver's sake. His life is in my hands, and I take that very, very seriously.

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

His life is in my hands, and I take that very, very seriously.

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That's what I love to hear,should be more people like you and me for that case as well as everyone on this site that loves there pets wether it's a dog,cat ,ferret or snake. I take care of my cats and snakes the same way I do family. They mean everything to me,I'm a huge animal person... Your guy will be fine,don't worry bout it..leave the UTH unplugged for the night and the red bulb will keep your tank plenty comfortable for him.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

This is absolutely ridiculous. 24 hours of bright light while not ideal isn't going to harm the snake, whereas an unregulated UTH could easily hurt the snake plus the fact that it is a fire risk.

Thickening the substrate layer is never recommended when using a UTH. BP's are known to dig into the substrate and sit directly on the bottom of the cage. By thickening the substrate you also risk increasing the temperature of the glass.

Lamps even white lamps are the way to go in this situation. If it was going to be more than a few days I would recommend getting an infrared heat lamp but even then a good BP cage should have a nice dark hide anyway.

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Notice I didn't say thickening the substrate layer is IDEAL, and I also suggested using the travel carrier pictured in her other post to prevent digging down to an unsafe heater. Incidentally, thicker substrate isn't necessarily going to result in hotter glass. Depending on the substrate, it may even dissipate some of the heat. That's the reason there are different UTH's for sand vs "bedding" substrates. Considering that she appears to be using coconut husk, there's a lot of dissipation going on. Coco husk is one of the least conductive substrates.

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I have repti-bark as my substrate......

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

I have repti-bark as my substrate......

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I just started using eco earth and repti bark mix last week,holds humidity well..switching my other tank over this weekend

Yes, I read that it holds humidity well, and I chose it for that reason since I decided to use a glass tank.

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

Yes, I read that it holds humidity well, and I chose it for that reason since I decided to use a glass tank.

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It holds humidity pretty well. Conductivity wise, it's really close to coco. It looks a lot like it too! The only thing I don't like about it is that it's made of Fir Tree bark. I'm most likely being VERY overprotective, but I avoid anything pine or fir related, even bark. I prefer a cypress/coco blend.

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Originally Posted by pbyeerts

Yes, I read that it holds humidity well, and I chose it for that reason since I decided to use a glass tank.

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Honestly it does,so does a coco husk and moss mix which I used last as well..but I'll be honest if u take the time when u have it to mess with your lamp set up,covering the screen etc,you can hold humidity just as well with aspen,my bigger guy just shed perfect and made a few adjustments to the lamp heat set up as well as the way I covered the tank and wett towels etc and he has aspen now..during his 5 days shed cycle,humidity never dropped below 65 and stayed mainly around 75-80.

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Originally Posted by NYHC4LIFE8899

Honestly it does,so does a coco husk and moss mix which I used last as well..but I'll be honest if u take the time when u have it to mess with your lamp set up,covering the screen etc,you can hold humidity just as well with aspen,my bigger guy just shed perfect and made a few adjustments to the lamp heat set up as well as the way I covered the tank and wett towels etc and he has aspen now..during his 5 days shed cycle,humidity never dropped below 65 and stayed mainly around 75-80.

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Yeah, but wet towels and lamps hanging all over... Yuck! It just looks thrown together to me.

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Before I knew that I needed a thermostat & thermometer, my BP was on an unregulated UTH. When I got the thermometer & placed it on top of the UTH, it read 120 degrees!! Monty stayed in his hide for around a week at those temps. He didn't show any pink belly or anything remotely looking like a burn. At the time, I was mortified & so angry that the pet store just tells you to throw em in a tank pretty much. Now it makes me wonder if the thermometer is accurate, can BPs actually adapt to higher temps? Anyways, moral of the story, the thermostat is a must. And I would say two different tools to measure the temps. One may be off, with 2, you can be fairly certain.

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Originally Posted by thejenius77

Before I knew that I needed a thermostat & thermometer, my BP was on an unregulated UTH. When I got the thermometer & placed it on top of the UTH, it read 120 degrees!! Monty stayed in his hide for around a week at those temps. He didn't show any pink belly or anything remotely looking like a burn. At the time, I was mortified & so angry that the pet store just tells you to throw em in a tank pretty much. Now it makes me wonder if the thermometer is accurate, can BPs actually adapt to higher temps? Anyways, moral of the story, the thermostat is a must. And I would say two different tools to measure the temps. One may be off, with 2, you can be fairly certain.

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The military taught me the value of having redundancy built into everything. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who has two of almost everything.

About your pet store anger... It baffles me that most places don't tell you about a thermostat. They almost ALL sell them, and if they DID inform customers, they're just going to make more money! I don't get it.

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I don't have 2 of everything YET. I currently only have the Acurite thermometer/hygrometer, but I am getting an IR gun so I can check different areas of the tank.

Since your UTH is already attached....you know how to go about attaching the probe of the thermostat when you get it?

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Originally Posted by thejenius77

I don't have 2 of everything YET. I currently only have the Acurite thermometer/hygrometer, but I am getting an IR gun so I can check different areas of the tank.

Since your UTH is already attached....you know how to go about attaching the probe of the thermostat when you get it?

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I know most people suggest putting it between the UTH and the bottom of the tank, but I prefer to have mine INSIDE the tank. I just used a silicone sealant to hold it directly on the floor, then put my substrate in once it was cured.

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So you have both the thermostat AND thermometer probes INSIDE??

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Lol... Sort of. I have TWO thermostat probes, one of which also has a hygrostat, one thermometer probe, two humidity/temp combos.

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None of those controls the heat though, correct? Maybe I'm lost. Lol

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Originally Posted by thejenius77

None of those controls the heat though, correct? Maybe I'm lost. Lol

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One thermostat controls the UTH. That probe is siliconed to the glass. The second thermostat with the hygrostat controls ambient air temperature and humidity.

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Ok. But you have it inside? I know that I read somewhere on here why that is a bad idea, but can't remember the reason why. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

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Originally Posted by thejenius77

Ok. But you have it inside? I know that I read somewhere on here why that is a bad idea, but can't remember the reason why. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

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If you're talking about the UTH thermostat, there's a reason I have it inside. Who cares what the temp OUTSIDE the glass is? I want to know what the temp inside is. My snake isn't ever going to be in contact with the outside.

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Its not necessarily a bad idea, you just have to make sure its firmly tacked down. If your UTH is already installed you can attach the probe to the bottom of the UTH, you can also put it inside but you need to make sure the wire is completely fixed and not floating around, otherwise there is the posiblity to have your snake get tangled or pull the probe away from the heat source causing the temps to go up. If you do choose to attach it inside the glass and you use silicone, hot glue, or some type of epoxy make sure you don't cover the actual probe. I have hooked up enclosures both ways to see if there was any difference in accuracy and it is about the same, once you get your mat dialed i you are good to go.

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Originally Posted by thejenius77

Ok. But you have it inside? I know that I read somewhere on here why that is a bad idea, but can't remember the reason why. Hopefully someone else can chime in on that.

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Proper cleaning and the risk of it coming lose and moving as well as the cable potentially being a hazard.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

If you're talking about the UTH thermostat, there's a reason I have it inside. Who cares what the temp OUTSIDE the glass is? I want to know what the temp inside is. My snake isn't ever going to be in contact with the outside.

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The TSTAT probe is measuring the heat pad, if you have it outside like the majority of people do you attach it to the heat mat. It isn't for ambient temps, you get it dialed in and you are set. You can attach the probe on the outside set your temp, verify that it is correct on the inside and you are good to go.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

If you're talking about the UTH thermostat, there's a reason I have it inside. Who cares what the temp OUTSIDE the glass is? I want to know what the temp inside is. My snake isn't ever going to be in contact with the outside.

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That's what a no contact thermometer is for. Regardless of what you set your stat for, there is error so you always want to double check it with a good no contact.

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Originally Posted by pitontheprowl

that's what a no contact thermometer is for. Regardless of what you set your stat for, there is error so you always want to double check it with a good no contact.

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x2

I think one of the reasons that I remember is: if for some reason the probe came loose and was just floating around somewhere in the tank, the temps of the UTH could potentially rise to deadly levels.

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Originally Posted by jclaiborne

The TSTAT probe is measuring the heat pad, if you have it outside like the majority of people do you attach it to the heat mat. It isn't for ambient temps, you get it dialed in and you are set. You can attach the probe on the outside set your temp, verify that it is correct on the inside and you are good to go.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

That's what a no contact thermometer is for. Regardless of what you set your stat for, there is error so you always want to double check it with a good no contact.

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Man, you guys are killing me!

I think I might have confused everyone, so here's the way I've got things set up. My UTH is in the usual place. The probe to the thermostat controlling it is inside the tank, and the cable is imbedded in silicone, leaving the actual probe exposed. It's not going anywhere. Running right alongside the probe for the thermostat is a probe for a digital thermometer, imbedded the same way. If the readings don't match, I start troubleshooting.

There's a SECOND thermostat connected to the heat lamps to regulate ambient air temps. There are also digital combo meters at each end of the tank. PLUS, I have an IR thermometer to spot check. It would be VERY difficult for my temps to get out of control.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Man, you guys are killing me!

I think I might have confused everyone, so here's the way I've got things set up. My UTH is in the usual place. The probe to the thermostat controlling it is inside the tank, and the cable is imbedded in silicone, leaving the actual probe exposed. It's not going anywhere. Running right alongside the probe for the thermostat is a probe for a digital thermometer, imbedded the same way. If the readings don't match, I start troubleshooting.

There's a SECOND thermostat connected to the heat lamps to regulate ambient air temps. There are also digital combo meters at each end of the tank. PLUS, I have an IR thermometer to spot check. It would be VERY difficult for my temps to get out of control.

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Yes now it makes sense, I was a little confused about your setup at first. To the OP you can mount the tstat probe in or out, if you do it in you need it secured like the above description. For ease of use, mounting it on the outside works just a well.

Oliver made it through the night, I have a thermostat attached, and feel much relieved! I was up several times checking on him, and he seems fine. The probe for the thermostat is attached to the UTH outside of the tank, and the temperature probe is in his tank, underneath his multipurpose basking rock/cave/hide, which is above the UTH. I still have a basking lamp on for him, and he's been hanging out underneath it. I have foil over 3/4 of the top of his tank, with a towel on top of it for extra weight. The humidity is a gorgeous 65% and the temps are ranging between 80 F on the cool side and 90 F on the warm side. I'm still adjusting things, but feel much more confident about ensuring proper temperatures now.

Many, many thanks to all of the wonderful members here who supported and helped me! You guys are the best! I really thought that I had everything all set up correctly - I had no idea the UTH would be so darn dangerous. I actually purchased 3 different thermostats via Amazon, and will see which is the best - delivery time was paramount yesterday - and the one recommended in the tank set up thread can't be here for about 5 days. No local pet stores had a thermostat, including the pet store which sold me Oliver and his other supplies. Amazing.......

I"ll keep you all updated, and of course, share pics of my very handsome boy (or girl, lol). Lots of questions to ask, which I'll post as they arise. Cheers, Pamela