Dear Mods (and other experts)

Now that the inappropriate-medical-care-thread-that-shall-not-be-named is gone and things have had a chance to calm down, I was wondering if there was anyone with the knowledge and time willing to write a sticky on actual useful first aid for bp's (or snakes in general) covering what can be treated at home and what needs to be taken to see a vet right away.

I know that there are some really good threads about husbandry, RI's, shedding, etc., but it would be nice to have something with info such as "If your snake has a pink belly, here is a picture of one in shed, go see the shedding thread, and here is a picture of one with a burn, adjust your temps and go see a vet now."

A list of items to keep in a snake first aid kit would also be really helpful.

Thanks in advance if anyone thinks this is a good idea and is willing to take on this kind of project!

As a novice and first time bp owner I'd like to say that this would be a good thread. The shed thread as well as a few others that have the sticky have been very helpfull.

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Originally Posted by h20hunter

As a novice and first time bp owner I'd like to say that this would be a good thread. The shed thread as well as a few others that have the sticky have been very helpfull.

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I think it's a great idea for any BP owner. You can never be too educated or have enough references..

I also agree that this type of thread would be extremely helpful for those of us who are less experienced in first aid and medical treatment or symptoms.

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Originally Posted by Schmee123

I think it's a great idea for any BP owner. You can never be too educated or have enough references..

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Exactly. I surf, read, and try and absorb as best I can. I would suggest that the majority of lurkers and newbies like myself make up a good percentage of the forum. We may have a bit less to contribute but trust me, we spend plenty of time reading and gleaning bits of information.

Great forum and an excellent resource for bp owners such as myself.

ooh what a great idea!


I've written quite a few articles of parrot care on the forum where I belong......you wouldn't believe the amount of questions we get about what does normal bird poop look like, lol.....

I think it would be a good idea to a point.
My worries are the "sue happy" type that might still have an animal die and then blame the poster or site.
Also, that being said............ There are things I do that might work in my house but not yours.
You get where I am going with this.
Maybe its just my paranoia kicking in due to my current job.

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

I think it would be a good idea to a point.
My worries are the "sue happy" type that might still have an animal die and then blame the poster or site.
Also, that being said............ There are things I do that might work in my house but not yours.
You get where I am going with this.
Maybe its just my paranoia kicking in due to my current job.

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I was thinking about that, too. Probably be necessary for a disclaimer that this information was not intended as a substitute for veterinary care. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can go to far wrong with saying if you see A, absolutely go to a vet as quickly as possible, if you see B, you might want to explore these other options, but if in doubt, see a vet.

Any lawyers want to chime in? Or would expressing an opinion make them legally vulnerable? ;)

First, I'll say that this would be a good idea.
Next, all I'll say is, ain't it great how no one can hardly say anything to anyone without worrying about getting sued or offending people. Sorry, that kinda off topic and I probly offended someone, lol. :D

Even if one person told another person to take a specific action, they wouldn't be liable for the person taking such action. A disclaimer isn't even needed.

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I'd be willing to write it if you guys want to start sending me images. I'm pretty sure I can put it together without opening myself or anyone else to a lawsuit.

If that works for everyone, you can email pics to patientz3ro@gmail.com

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A couple of things I'd like for this to cover would be any issues with snakes rubbing on the tops of terrarium screens to the point where they can get raw injuries. I know mine can get bored/curious and end up upside down with a third of himself smushed against the top, so I know he probably rubs some, but it hasn't become an issue so far.

Another great subject to cover would be signs and symptoms of common injuries and illnesses that most snake owners would do well to know about.

Here are my $0.02 on the matter:

A thread with this type of information isn't necessarily the best idea. Yes there is some general information that should be available readily, but I think most of that has already been covered. For more extreme cases I feel that individual threads about x, y, or z are much better for a few reasons.

Many times that a snake is injured or becomes sick there is a reason why it happened. In a general thread about this the source of the issue might not be made apparent to the user and thus the issue wasn't actually resolved. Treating the symptoms and not the underlying issue will likely result in either the treatment not working, or the issue reoccurring. If that user creates a new thread with the specific details other users will usually ask questions and find out what went wrong. No matter how hard you try you just can't write an all inclusive thread on this type of stuff.

Then there is the issue of user experience. In some cases I would recommend totally different procedures to an experienced keeper than I would to a newcomer to the hobby. This goes for husbandry as well. For example I would never recommend to a newcomer to house 2 BP's in the same cage, but I feel that an experienced keeper can make it work with proper caging and procedures.

Finally there is the issue of user misidentification. The last thing you need is have someone treat a snake for the wrong thing. For example scale rot and a burn can look similar, but they require different treatments, and they are caused by very different things.

All in all I would be very cautious about writing a thread of this sort. I would much rather see a thread about identifying problems and what might be causing them, basically a critical thinking exercise. I feel this information is more useful and has less potential for things to go wrong.

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Here are my $0.02 on the matter:

A thread with this type of information isn't necessarily the best idea. Yes there is some general information that should be available readily, but I think most of that has already been covered. For more extreme cases I feel that individual threads about x, y, or z are much better for a few reasons.

Many times that a snake is injured or becomes sick there is a reason why it happened. In a general thread about this the source of the issue might not be made apparent to the user and thus the issue wasn't actually resolved. Treating the symptoms and not the underlying issue will likely result in either the treatment not working, or the issue reoccurring. If that user creates a new thread with the specific details other users will usually ask questions and find out what went wrong. No matter how hard you try you just can't write an all inclusive thread on this type of stuff.

Then there is the issue of user experience. In some cases I would recommend totally different procedures to an experienced keeper than I would to a newcomer to the hobby. This goes for husbandry as well. For example I would never recommend to a newcomer to house 2 BP's in the same cage, but I feel that an experienced keeper can make it work with proper caging and procedures.

Finally there is the issue of user misidentification. The last thing you need is have someone treat a snake for the wrong thing. For example scale rot and a burn can look similar, but they require different treatments, and they are caused by very different things.

All in all I would be very cautious about writing a thread of this sort. I would much rather see a thread about identifying problems and what might be causing them, basically a critical thinking exercise. I feel this information is more useful and has less potential for things to go wrong.

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You raise a number of valid points, and I agree with a lot of them. My motivation for getting behind this is that while All the general info is out there, it would be useful to have some of the more common problems and solutions in one place.

Like I said earlier, if I can get enough good photos of different problems that people have had, I think I can put something together that we can all benefit from.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by The Serpent Merchant

Here are my $0.02 on the matter:

A thread with this type of information isn't necessarily the best idea. Yes there is some general information that should be available readily, but I think most of that has already been covered. For more extreme cases I feel that individual threads about x, y, or z are much better for a few reasons.

Many times that a snake is injured or becomes sick there is a reason why it happened. In a general thread about this the source of the issue might not be made apparent to the user and thus the issue wasn't actually resolved. Treating the symptoms and not the underlying issue will likely result in either the treatment not working, or the issue reoccurring. If that user creates a new thread with the specific details other users will usually ask questions and find out what went wrong. No matter how hard you try you just can't write an all inclusive thread on this type of stuff.

Then there is the issue of user experience. In some cases I would recommend totally different procedures to an experienced keeper than I would to a newcomer to the hobby. This goes for husbandry as well. For example I would never recommend to a newcomer to house 2 BP's in the same cage, but I feel that an experienced keeper can make it work with proper caging and procedures.

Finally there is the issue of user misidentification. The last thing you need is have someone treat a snake for the wrong thing. For example scale rot and a burn can look similar, but they require different treatments, and they are caused by very different things.

All in all I would be very cautious about writing a thread of this sort. I would much rather see a thread about identifying problems and what might be causing them, basically a critical thinking exercise. I feel this information is more useful and has less potential for things to go wrong.

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If someone is determined to do something stupid, you aren't going to be able to stop them. Not going to argue with you about that!

As an adult living with another adult and a child, I have several books on first aid and a couple specific pediatric books. Basic stuff. If a fever goes over 103 degrees and you can't get it down, get medical attention. I also have a book on cat first aid from when I owned a cat.

Now that I have a bp, I own a copy of "The Complete Ball Python" even though I have no interest in ever breeding. It has a chapter on "Common Health Concerns", like ticks, mites, RI's and stuck sheds. It does NOT tell me what to do if (heaven forbid) my snake were ever scraped, bumped or bruised by accident. Let's say it's 10pm and my snake gets a cut. I know perfectly well the emergency vet clinic won't be able to treat her and I need to take care of her until I can get her to a herp vet in the morning. Knowing that I should never, ever try to put any kind of tape on her (like a bandaid) and that I should keep her on paper towel instead of aspen is helpful. Knowing if there is something more proactive that I should or should not do would be wonderful.

I'm a relatively new keeper and I've done my best to educate myself. BP.net is the best source of information I've found on the internet. Basic snake first aid is something I'd like to learn more about, so I was hoping someone here would be willing to teach. If no one is comfortable posting this kind of thing, I would appreciate it if someone could point me to book that I could get for myself.

I like the idea, but I don't think it's necessary either. Not all situations are the same and cannot be addressed in the same manner. Not everyone has the same resources to help their animal. Every situation might have to be addressed accordingly to that specific situation and not in general. Also, maybe have a stickied thread of essentials to have in a basic "reptile first aide kit".

Most of the 'general and common' injuries and illnesses have been covered. Like what to do when your snake gets a respiratory infection or a burn, for example. And pink belly and a minor minor burn can look similar.


The thread where a member instructed the OP to amputate her snake's tail was not a common occurrence. Yes, reptiles do get necrotic tails, but I'm talking about the advice for a DIY at home amputation. That advice was ridiculous and a form of cruelty in my opinion. And the OP was foolish enough to listen to that without listening to the other posters or even go to a vet.

And if someone is really that worried and unsure about their animal and it's in a potentially emergency situation, for goodness sake, take it to the vet! They shouldn't sit on their butt waiting online to hear back from complete strangers. Yes, some of us are very experienced and have great insight on certain situations. But that doesn't change the fact, no body here is an actual qualified herp veterinarian. Some things are just out of an internet forum's league.

And if you can't afford to take your animal to the vet, don't own animals!! Get a pet rock! Some, not all, DIY home treatments can be worse than just leaving your animal be.



Anyway, rant over.
For basic-minor injuries, it should be treated the same way as human injuries. (Clean the wound with Betadine or other antiseptic and maybe apply a medicated cream, for example)
The only thing you have to watch out for is the products you use. Some safe things for humans could be toxic to reptiles. For example, Neosporin with pain killer is toxic to reptiles. But Neosporin without it, is fine to use. Ointments and oil based products soften scales and can make them fall off, where as creams are harmless.

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Originally Posted by Libby

If someone is determined to do something stupid, you aren't going to be able to stop them. Not going to argue with you about that!

As an adult living with another adult and a child, I have several books on first aid and a couple specific pediatric books. Basic stuff. If a fever goes over 103 degrees and you can't get it down, get medical attention. I also have a book on cat first aid from when I owned a cat.

Now that I have a bp, I own a copy of "The Complete Ball Python" even though I have no interest in ever breeding. It has a chapter on "Common Health Concerns", like ticks, mites, RI's and stuck sheds. It does NOT tell me what to do if (heaven forbid) my snake were ever scraped, bumped or bruised by accident. Let's say it's 10pm and my snake gets a cut. I know perfectly well the emergency vet clinic won't be able to treat her and I need to take care of her until I can get her to a herp vet in the morning. Knowing that I should never, ever try to put any kind of tape on her (like a bandaid) and that I should keep her on paper towel instead of aspen is helpful. Knowing if there is something more proactive that I should or should not do would be wonderful.

I'm a relatively new keeper and I've done my best to educate myself. BP.net is the best source of information I've found on the internet. Basic snake first aid is something I'd like to learn more about, so I was hoping someone here would be willing to teach. If no one is comfortable posting this kind of thing, I would appreciate it if someone could point me to book that I could get for myself.

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Bingo!

Btw, make sure the wound is clean, if it's a scrape, don't cover it. Just keep it clean and dry. For cuts, put a piece of sterile sponge (not the cleaning kind. It's like gauze, only a tighter weave, like cloth) and secure it with coban. It holds nice and securely, but only sticks to its self. Just don't make it too tight.

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Originally Posted by patientz3ro

Bingo!

Btw, make sure the wound is clean, if it's a scrape, don't cover it. Just keep it clean and dry. For cuts, put a piece of sterile sponge (not the cleaning kind. It's like gauze, only a tighter weave, like cloth) and secure it with coban. It holds nice and securely, but only sticks to its self. Just don't make it too tight.

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That's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for! I'll make a point of picking up some coban, since I don't believe I have any around, though with an uncoordinated child I have every shape and size of band-aid on the market. (I know, not safe for snakes.)

Is there anything like a triple antibiotic ointment that is safe to use on snakes? And I believe that diluted betadine is safe for disinfecting, but would like to double check.

Most of the normal injuries/illnesses we see on the forum are handled case-by-case, as the OP asks for advice and takes it to heart accordingly. Or if the keeper with the issue isn't concerned enough to make a thread, the search function on the site works quite well for most intents and purposes.

Obviously, if things are severe, the first thing most people say is "Time for a vet". None of us wants to be the guiding voice behind a potentially life-threatening situation without firsthand observation of the animal and experience with the situation. But for the most part, I think threads on injuries and illnesses are handled pretty well here.

I think the biggest issue with making a Masterpost on first aid is that invariably, there will be differences in the way particular folks handle certain injuries, and the severity of said injury has a lot to do with that.

It's sort of like the difference between the BP Husbandry and Advanced BP Husbandry topics. For the most part, all beginners are referred to the first topic, where it gives you the basics to get started; enclosure sizes, temps, temp control, and humidity control are all basically standard across the board. Then, as folks become more accustomed to proper husbandry tactics in the standard setup, they can seek out new and alternate ways of doing things over in the Advanced section. I think taking broad-spectrum care and narrowing it down case by case works well, but I see a lot of room for error and liability in making a first aid specific thread.

That being said, I think having a list of Snake First Aid kit items would be a really great idea. Betadine, paper towels, a soak bowl, etc would be a good start.

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Originally Posted by Libby

Is there anything like a triple antibiotic ointment that is safe to use on snakes? And I believe that diluted betadine is safe for disinfecting, but would like to double check.

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Betadine is perfect and one of the most highly recommended wound disinfectants. 10 parts water to 1 part betadine is what I see again and again.

Also, I believe any ointment that DOES NOT have pain relief is technically animal-safe, but it's often deprioritized because it can soften the scales around the wound and allow for more pathogens. In the case of burns, etc, Silversulfadiazine is most widely recommended, because it treats the burn without as much softening of the scales.

Good idea. Just have to make sure it's well known it's a "This is what to do UNTIL you can get to a vet" rather than "This is what to do INSTEAD of going to a vet" type of thread.