Just a showing for those that think they are smarter....................

I over paid for this girl a little over two years ago (07/23/2011 to be exact) to get her out of the situation she was in.
I was told she was a het pastel AND she had one of the best/worst belly burns I have ever seen.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

So for those of you that think you don't need to use a thermostat with belly heat OR you can put down substrate take a gander at these.
Every shed she is getting better but this can give you an idea of how slowly they heal and how much damage you can do being cheap and stupid.

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps54047f52.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps1083dbf5.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h1...ps323f13c8.jpg

These were taken tonight just because I had her out for feeding and I have see way too many posts with unregulated heating, now you might understand why I get so mad and jump all over some of you.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW she is now almost 3000g and that scar runs 3/4s of her body, almost a perfect stripe.

Gnarly looking scar!

My Helix just arrived earlier, Best money I ever spent. I was using dimmers for a little while to tide me over, even with those I was always a nervous wreck. I can't imagine having nothing at all.

When I got her it was really nasty, it would bleed whenever she would eat anything.
She is also on of the sweetest girls I have, seems like she just wants to be out and with people.

Poor girl.
Awesome on you for saving her. :gj:

You sir are a champion of damsel bp's in distress.
You deserve a sack of dried meat and purse of coin.

My hat is tipped to you :salute:

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Originally Posted by Southern_Breeder

Poor girl.
Awesome on you for saving her. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Mr Oni

You sir are a champion of damsel bp's in distress.
You deserve a sack of dried meat and purse of coin.

My hat is tipped to you :salute:

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Thank you both but the only thing I want is for new keepers to actually SEE and REALIZE there are dos and donts AND some of us are not just typing to see our own words. I know sometimes I come off too "hard" on this subject but I am a firm believer in "don't get it till you are set and can afford it"
I wish I would have taken some pictures when I first got her.:oops:

It is very frustrating when I see posts where folks do not have a thermostat for regulating the heat source. To often the thermostat is bought when it is already to late to prevent the above from happening. It just saddens me to see burns like that.

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Originally Posted by ballpythonluvr

It is very frustrating when I see posts where folks do not have a thermostat for regulating the heat source. To often the thermostat is bought when it is already to late to prevent the above from happening. It just saddens me to see burns like that.

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Unfortunately I think it's because too many people get their snakes from pet shops which are interested in pushing high-turnover, high-margin items to improve their bottom line. A good quality t-stat, while expensive and even high-margin, isn't high-turnover since it will provide years of service. So, most new BP owners (including me!) came home with a tank, screen top, UTH, a couple of useless wooden hides and other cage decorations that don't provide enough security, and day/night lights, and then wonder why their BP won't eat.

I have slowly begun to introduce thermostats in my collection due to energy efficiency; however, I personally hate the damn things. I do not use thermostats for low watt heat cables and mats, however for higher output mats it's required if you do not want the utility bill to eat you out...at least in my area.

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Originally Posted by Physician&Snakes

I have slowly begun to introduce thermostats in my collection due to energy efficiency; however, I personally hate the damn things. I do not use thermostats for low watt heat cables and mats, however for higher output mats it's required if you do not want the utility bill to eat you out...at least in my area.

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Seems like the utility bills in your area are pretty frisky. Have them take you out on a date first... ;)

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Unfortunately I think it's because too many people get their snakes from pet shops which are interested in pushing high-turnover, high-margin items to improve their bottom line. A good quality t-stat, while expensive and even high-margin, isn't high-turnover since it will provide years of service. So, most new BP owners (including me!) came home with a tank, screen top, UTH, a couple of useless wooden hides and other cage decorations that don't provide enough security, and day/night lights, and then wonder why their BP won't eat.

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Very true...I remember when I got my first snake and didnt know any better, I actually believed the info I was getting was correct, it is sad.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Seems like the utility bills in your area are pretty frisky. Have them take you out on a date first... ;)

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Lol that was a good one!

Only thing I don't use t-stats on is my lights, and they are only supplemental heat. Flexwatt with T-stats for all my enclosures except one. Working on making a dedicated snake room with a space heater, insulation, an a herpestat 4 to control everything, and use my existing t-stats for any other enclosures I set up.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bcr229

Unfortunately I think it's because too many people get their snakes from pet shops which are interested in pushing high-turnover, high-margin items to improve their bottom line. A good quality t-stat, while expensive and even high-margin, isn't high-turnover since it will provide years of service. So, most new BP owners (including me!) came home with a tank, screen top, UTH, a couple of useless wooden hides and other cage decorations that don't provide enough security, and day/night lights, and then wonder why their BP won't eat.

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You could have come home with worse. I came home with like a 75 watt heat lamp and then had a vet recommend I switch to use a ceramic heat emitter. :rolleyes:

It took me a few tries and finding this forum to finally get it right and then I went and built a rack shortly after. :P

Thanks for posting these pictures up. I never would have known what a burn on a snake looked like had I not seen those.

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Originally Posted by Misha

Seems like the utility bills in your area are pretty frisky. Have them take you out on a date first... ;)

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They are quite frisky...quite.

Do you have any pictures of the initial burn before treatment?

Thank you for taking the time, money, and effort in rehabilitating this girl. She certainly deserves it.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Do you have any pictures of the initial burn before treatment?

Thank you for taking the time, money, and effort in rehabilitating this girl. She certainly deserves it.

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I don't think he does. Seems I remember him saying in this thread earlier that he wished he had taken earlier pics than this.

I'm glad you rescued her! :) glad she's in the hands of a caring owner. But I do have a question that plagues me every time I see a snake with a burn. Actually I just don't understand something that maybe you guys can help me understand. I don't want to start any kind of argument. I am just very confused about how ball pythons thermoregulate, now when they get to hot and move to a cooler place to cool down then move back to a warm place once they get to cool to warm back up. So they understand hot from cold right? It sounds stupid but I just don't understand why they wouldn't move from the heat source once they got too hot. Now if the heat source was across the whole underside of the tank and they couldn't escape from the heat I understand that. I don't know maybe I'm just dumb lol.


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Wow,that's terrible..thnk god she's ok

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Originally Posted by AlexisFitzy

I'm glad you rescued her! :) glad she's in the hands of a caring owner. But I do have a question that plagues me every time I see a snake with a burn. Actually I just don't understand something that maybe you guys can help me understand. I don't want to start any kind of argument. I am just very confused about how ball pythons thermoregulate, now when they get to hot and move to a cooler place to cool down then move back to a warm place once they get to cool to warm back up. So they understand hot from cold right? It sounds stupid but I just don't understand why they wouldn't move from the heat source once they got too hot. Now if the heat source was across the whole underside of the tank and they couldn't escape from the heat I understand that. I don't know maybe I'm just dumb lol.


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I'm not positive but I believe physiologically their bodies do not recognize heat over a certain temp. Like most monitor lizards, if their ambients are too cold on the cold side they will not realize that they are too cold to move, then it becomes too late, and they spend too long in the cold and literally cannot move to the warmth. I forget the temp but it's something like 72° and they just stop feeling it.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Expensive hobby

I'm not positive but I believe physiologically their bodies do not recognize heat over a certain temp. Like most monitor lizards, if their ambients are too cold on the cold side they will not realize that they are too cold to move, then it becomes too late, and they spend too long in the cold and literally cannot move to the warmth. I forget the temp but it's something like 72° and they just stop feeling it.


Sent From an Enclosure

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That may be true and I can understand that as well. I've heard that many times that they can tell hot from cold but not too hot from too cold. So with that being said don't they still register pain? Like if you put your hand in a fire you immediately pull away because it hurts. So even if they couldn't recognize heat over a certain temp wouldn't they still be able to realize that that extreme temp is causing them pain and try to move away from what's hurting them? Idk if you've ever put a ball python in a tub of just warm water to maybe clean them if they get nasty but most of the time they completely freak out and try to get out of the warm water that's not even hurting them. Why wouldn't they move away from a heat mat that's 100 degrees or more and causing them pain? It just doesn't make sense to me.


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Wow that's crazy!

Usually by time they get off the heat it can be too late.

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Originally Posted by AlexisFitzy

That may be true and I can understand that as well. I've heard that many times that they can tell hot from cold but not too hot from too cold. So with that being said don't they still register pain? Like if you put your hand in a fire you immediately pull away because it hurts. So even if they couldn't recognize heat over a certain temp wouldn't they still be able to realize that that extreme temp is causing them pain and try to move away from what's hurting them? Idk if you've ever put a ball python in a tub of just warm water to maybe clean them if they get nasty but most of the time they completely freak out and try to get out of the warm water that's not even hurting them. Why wouldn't they move away from a heat mat that's 100 degrees or more and causing them pain? It just doesn't make sense to me.

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The bath water freak out is more a reaction to the water than temperature. They are terrestrial/non-aquatic animals after all.


Don't quote me on this because I could be totally wrong. Maybe they're even myths or speculation, I'm not sure.
But I've heard that it takes them a longer time to register pain compared to mammals. Kind of like a delayed reaction. And by time they do register that burn, it's too late.

And I've also heard something about pain receptors in the belly are not as sensitive?????? :confusd:

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Originally Posted by satomi325

The bath water freak out is more a reaction to the water than temperature. They are terrestrial/non-aquatic animals after all.


Don't quote me on this because I could be totally wrong. Maybe they're even myths or speculation, I'm not sure.
But I've heard that it takes them a longer time to register pain compared to mammals. Kind of like a delayed reaction. And by time they do register that burn, it's too late.

And I've also heard something about pain receptors in the belly are not as sensitive?????? :confusd:

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They're always in their belly, so wouldn't they naturally have something of a callus, or a translation of that occurrence on the belly scales?

Seems only natural to me.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlexisFitzy

I'm glad you rescued her! :) glad she's in the hands of a caring owner. But I do have a question that plagues me every time I see a snake with a burn. Actually I just don't understand something that maybe you guys can help me understand. I don't want to start any kind of argument. I am just very confused about how ball pythons thermoregulate, now when they get to hot and move to a cooler place to cool down then move back to a warm place once they get to cool to warm back up. So they understand hot from cold right? It sounds stupid but I just don't understand why they wouldn't move from the heat source once they got too hot. Now if the heat source was across the whole underside of the tank and they couldn't escape from the heat I understand that. I don't know maybe I'm just dumb lol.


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This is debatable, so far there is only a rough consensus that some captive animal will stay in an area they prefer even if the heat is too intense simply to avoid stress. I have seen this in some of my retics, I have a GC that stayed in his hide even when a thermostat malfunctioned last week, the heat went up to 105F, that machine was promptly returned and replaced; however, his intended mate and clutch mate are right beside each other in identical set ups and when I was testing out her thermostat, she avidly moved from it when the heat got to around 95F. I highly doubt pain reception is less intense in the abdominal areas...think about some of the places we find snakes, scrap yards, in farm equipment, near/on, thorn covered bushes, I doubt they would last long if that was the case, however I am also not saying with 100% accuracy.

Man that scar is nasty looking even now was she stitched back together ? cause some of those marks look like stitching scaring too. I remember when I started out I had a ( home made ceder cage with rat wire front and was told a hot rock was enough. I figure out real fast to use different heating( the ceder was never a issue for me ( but I replaced it with plywood cages when I needed room for larger snakes. I since moved to racks and wish I could get more for I know we will never stop getting new children lol( bp are our kids)

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

Man that scar is nasty looking even now was she stitched back together ?

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Nope, just burn

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Originally Posted by satomi325

But I've heard that it takes them a longer time to register pain compared to mammals. Kind of like a delayed reaction. And by time they do register that burn, it's too late.

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I don't know, if you've ever had to give a snake a shot of antibiotics, you can tell they register that discomfort PDQ!

Glad I'm not the only one confused. I don't know how staying in a place that was too hot would be avoiding stress especially with ball pythons that are easily stressed out by many different things. But I don't know it's still not making sense to me. Ball pythons are so sensitive to things and I don't understand how one would just sit on something so hot and not realize it at all. I've seen burn pics on google a lot worse that this one where the skin was literally melted off and what's left is singed. I believe with those cases the animal had no where to go. It's a very sad situation.


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It will choose security over comfort...so if somewhere is too hot but it feels most secure there... that is where it will stay

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

It will choose security over comfort...so if somewhere is too hot but it feels most secure there... that is where it will stay

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This is the answer I've read the most. That they are more comfortable or secure in that area. I guess I just can't understand how burning to death is comfortable. Like staying in your burning house because your home is comfy. And I've been through a house fire and there's no way I'd stay no matter how comfy. But I guess it's because I'm not a snake so I will never understand what goes on or what logic they have in they're little snakey brains.


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No not comfortable... secure... two different things in this instance. Meaning maybe he fits more snugly in the hide, or there is a lack of a hide ..

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society really should get its act together and teach more science and physics at schools.

snake burns are based on two things:

- not doing all the required research or being misinformed by the pet store or someone else

AND

- a lack of understanding of science, no concept of what 50 watt or 100 watt really means and what it can do, no real understanding of temperature.

those screwups just dont happen to people with some understanding of electronics and thermodynamics. At a pet store i frequently visit seems to have found a solution. they sell unregulated hot spots in the form of heat mats / heat tape that are limited to 5 watt, 7 watt, or 10 watt. with such a low maximum output, with the right setup, you really get a hot spot that is just a few degrees above the surrounding ambient temperature. and they sell the stuff with higher energy output together with thermostats. I think that makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

society really should get its act together and teach more science and physics at schools.

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Sports are more important.
I remember marine bio, I loved that class and wish I would have taken that one somewhere.

I've got a friend who used to have a ball python with a severe burn from a hot rock, it took a LONG time for it to recover from those burns, even years later if the snake coiled up a particular way you could see the distinctive shape of the sizzle stone brand of hot rock that she had been laying on. It was branded into her belly. The previous owner just thought the snake really loved her hot rock because she was always laying on top of it. :rolleyes:

I remember in high school AP biology we learned about the ability of cold blooded animals to thermoregulate.

The example was a tree frog. If it was put into a tub of hot water it would jump out immediately, BUT if it was put into a tub of water at a comfortable temperature it would stay. If the temperature was slowly & gradually raised even exceeding the initial too hot temperature, the tree frog wouldn't be able to sense the temperature change in the water. Is this the same concept?

Poor girl. Even before I registered to this site just with my google "research" I found many articles/caresheets talking about thermostats. Then I dug through snake forums and found that a lot of people used the hydrostat thermostats. I bought several of those and used those up until the point I started adding more snakes. Herpstat all the way from now on. I'd be a worried mess if I didn't have a thermostat. Even with the RHP I have, I tested it and they can get pretty darn hot. Even if a snake can't lay on it, it hurt me to touch it briefly.

Thank you rescuing that girl. That's a horrible scar. Man and two years later it looks like that. If burn pictures don't make the ignorant run for thermostats, I don't know what will.