Looking for a female investment for a spider bp

I've been combing through similar threads and decided to make my own here...
I have a really sweet 1.5 year old male Spider bp and my boyfriend has recently decided to enter the ball python world.
We decided it makes sense to invest in a nice baby female with compatible genes because we hope to breed after graduating.
Additionally, I've agreed to go in half. (Christmas present)

Even so, I think we top out around $300 total. We do live in Texas and have access to some absolutely GREAT expos and wonderful local breeders, so I think we can do a lot with that.
From what I've seen we have a good deal of options. Ideally I think we want to try and get a double gene, but we aren't totally locked into that.

He's really interested in pewters, particularly the black pewters. (Hello black widow?)
I love pastaves *cries at price tag*
I also think a pastel het [something-cool] would be a neat idea

(We've eliminated butters, cinnamons, cinnamon pewters, enchis, pastels, and pinstripes)


We are going to the Arlington expo in February, but he's got the bug bad and is searching the internet for suitable BPs.
I'm not sure if I should encourage him to wait until then or not. I feel like we saw amazing deals in San Antonio recently, plus we met a lot of really helpful, friendly breeders that I feel would have been happy to make a deal with us, especially on the last day of the show!

So we like pewters and black pewters for certain.
Any other semi-affordable double gene suggestions would be highly appreciated!
Also, should we wait for the show in Feb.? What do you guys think?
Thanks so much!

http://imageshack.us/a/img823/5474/img0043kp.jpg

Hatchling Pic



http://imageshack.us/a/img818/1583/qgj3.jpg

My female Black Widow now.


I say get your Black Pewter.:gj:

Wow, just beautiful!
We have our eye on a black pewter for $275
Need to see some pictures though.
Anyone have any idea what black pewters females are generally sitting at right now?
Most of them I've seen (not talking VPI or anything here) are around $350

Yes I see that you ruled out butters and pastels
HOWEVER in my opinion you cannot beat a queen bee.

You can get a hatchling pastel butter or pastel lesser and offspring wise you will be golden
bumblebee's
queenbee's
butter spiders are attractive.

And yes still going against your post another stunning combo

lemonblast (pastel pinstripe)
another wicked combo to pair with the spider

If I was in your shoes and sticking to 2 bp's with your price range and working with the spider gene definatly a pastel lesser! if you look around fauna you can get them for about 225 shipped or + shipping

just my 2 cents!

San Antonio? Hey! -waves-

Depending on what side you live on or if you're willing to travel, check out River City Exotics. The owner, Mike, breeds his own Ball Pythons, and in December sometime, starts having some good sales. Granted, I don't think I've seen him with any black pastels, but you can always call and inquire upon his availability. :3

With your budget, I would have to say the lesserbee is one of my favorite spider crosses. :)

Don't get me wrong! I love butters. I'm actually pushing butters HARD. I may end up getting one myself. And I love lemonblasts. Totally. Feel free to go against the post! Thanks for your reply!

Hello! I live in Bulverde, but I go to school in College Station. We will pretty much travel anywhere in a 5 hour radius, we like road trips. I actually met Mike this November! He was great. Kicking Tyler for not knowing he wanted a ball python then. I need to contact him, I grabbed a business card.

Thanks! Really appreciate all of the replies

I read my post and I think its confusing lol I will break it down better

Female Butter or lesser Pastel crossed with your spider will allow you to make:
Bumbebee (pastel spider) QueenBee (pastel spider lesser) LesserBee (lesser spider) and single genes of butter/lesser pastel spider
I picked up my Butter Pastel female for 225. (actually arrived on Tuesday)

otherwise the other route id go is a LemonBlast (Pastel Pinstripe) when bred with your spider will allow you to make:
Bumblebee (Pastel spider) Spinner (pinstripe spider) spinner blast (Pastel pinstripe spider) also more lemon blasts pinstripes pastels spiders.

If you do your research and look around you an find lemonblasts for cheap. I actually just picked up a really nice granite lemonblast on fauna (arrived with my pastel lesser female) Ill post a pic of the granite lemonblast I still need to take pics of the pastel lesser.

http://i986.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3cfd26c3.jpg

you have to consider the constant price drops.

if you invest 300 dollars into a double gene female, and breed it to the single gene spider, you only have a 12.5% chance to hit the jackpot in the form of a triple gene hatchling. and by then, all the single gene and double gene combos and the normals you produce will be worth less than 300 dollars, and these will make up 87.5% of your production.

the market seems to be quite saturated as it is, indications are that morphs increasingly show up in reptile sanctuaries and in retail / wholesale.

its totally fine if you want to breed just for the fun and the experience of it and out of your love for these reptiles, and are aware that you will most likely never break even. otherwise, if you expect a return on investment, im sorry to disillusion you.

with that in mind, i would say its most important that you get a female that is very appealing to you and that will produce offspring that also fits your personal taste. i personally absolutely love jigsaws and fireflys and stuff with enchi. just look at lots of ball pythons within your price range and take note of these that are visually most appealing to you :) then calculate what you would get, and decide how appealing these combinations would be to you. and then buy the one that you are most excited about.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

you have to consider the constant price drops.

if you invest 300 dollars into a double gene female, and breed it to the single gene spider, you only have a 12.5% chance to hit the jackpot in the form of a triple gene hatchling. and by then, all the single gene and double gene combos and the normals you produce will be worth less than 300 dollars, and these will make up 87.5% of your production.

the market seems to be quite saturated as it is, indications are that morphs increasingly show up in reptile sanctuaries and in retail / wholesale.

its totally fine if you want to breed just for the fun and the experience of it and out of your love for these reptiles, and are aware that you will most likely never break even. otherwise, if you expect a return on investment, im sorry to disillusion you.

with that in mind, i would say its most important that you get a female that is very appealing to you and that will produce offspring that also fits your personal taste. i personally absolutely love jigsaws and fireflys and stuff with enchi. just look at lots of ball pythons within your price range and take note of these that are visually most appealing to you :) then calculate what you would get, and decide how appealing these combinations would be to you. and then buy the one that you are most excited about.

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This is absolutely true, however if you are only spending 300 dollars on a morph even if you got all single gene babies you would still make that 300 dollars back in 1 solid breed. Even so the cheapest Morph ball pythons pastels etc go for about 75 bucks each. so selling 4 snakes out of your 6 8 10 egg clutch will make you your money back. I think on a 300 dollar morph assuming you are taking the time and plan to breed its nearly impossible to loose your 300 dollar investment.
Even so, if you are buying a 300 dollar 2 gene animal as a hatchling and you feed it and get it up to weight and decide not to breed you should still be able to get your 300 dollar investment out of the snake by selling it now that it has size.
This is all assuming it lives, stays healthy and have no problems.

I would try to get a Pastave for your Spider! Not only Pastaves are gorgeous, you have a chance for bees and mojave spider.

I'd spend some time on the WOP genetic wizard and plan accordingly. :)

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/:ad:


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Killswitch- LemonBlast or Butter Pastel- got it. Those are definitely some of my favorites. Tyler doesn't like yellows *consternation* But you know, I may just get my own female.

Pythonfriend- As far as realistically breeding... I doubt it will ever surpass an expensive hobby. We certainly don't plan to make it our livelihood. I suppose right now our idea is to get him an attractive female that he really likes, but that would also happen to make neat offspring with my BP. Although we're learning, genetics is still fairly boggling (and exciting!) I wish I had known more about genetics and the market when I bought Jace, but then again, maybe I wouldn't have gotten him, and I really quite overly attached to the fella, so I suppose it worked out alright.

Killswitch- Thank you! That sounds very reasonable, and something we would strive to do.

Misha- Pastaves are AWESOME. They're going on my list of wants. We've spent probably hours on WOP that thing is both wonderful and terrible.

when considering cost you also need to consider: incubator, hatchling rack, food for the hatchlings, thermostats and heat tape, electricity cost, other small things like substrate, hides, water bowls, and the time and effort you need to invest. so even when you get lucky and get a big nice clutch with nice odds and make a few hundred dollars from selling them, you will most likely still be quite far in the red.

recouping some of the costs is not that hard, but truly breaking even is, especially if you go for quality when it comes to the necessary equipment. also you need to put some money aside for reptile vet visits that may become necessary.

given how addictive and fun the hobby is, the money you make can also easily be absorbed by expanding the collection and upgrading the equipment ^^

the key point is that if you worry about breaking even and making money with it, you will most likely worry a lot ;)


EDIT: Damn, the OP was faster ^^ You seem to have the right attitude about it :) yes thats what it is, an expensive hobby with the potential to maybe recoup some of the costs one day :)

EDIT: black pastel + mojave, black mojo, is also really really nice.

Scouring FB and the internet has led Tyler to a ?? sex bumblebee baby for an absolutely ridiculously low price (like, I went and checked it out to make sure it wasn't infested with mites or blind or something) Apparently in honor of Black Friday. Seems to be in good health. He's in love. I think he is beyond caring about the sex or that he "doesn't like yellow" after all!
Shoulda figured :p
Which is just I mean pretty much forget breeding with those! I don't think I'm messing with the controversial spider x spider "curse" my first time

We'll be gently "popping" [hopefully her?] next week before he makes his final decision.
(Tested it out on my spider and it worked after some youtube videos and fumbling, without upsetting him)

IN THE MEANTIME
I will be on the lookout for 2013 reasonably priced female:
Butters (pastel butters, super butters -drools-)
Pastaves
Black mojaves
Black Pewters
Lesser bees

Thanks to you fine folks and your excellent advice.

If I pick anything up in February, (Anyone else going to Arlington?)
I'll be sure to share.

Thanks again for all of your advice! One thing that has always struck me, as a horse-rider and equestrian forum-member particularly, is how GOSHDARNED NICE reptile people are. You guys are great

Obviously you've never been around dog breeders lol
Some are the nicest people you could ever meet... and some are down right nasty!!!
Yes I've noticed reptile people to be very nice and welcoming
:)

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update update
looks like we may have a female pewter in our grasps !
Who knows what's going to happen

go with a pastel YB or Super pastel YB if possible... Pastel Ivory.... BUMBLEBELLYS!!!!!!!

Goodness gracious we've taken a slide into this
He's found a 2013 female pewter for $275 shipped- she's on hold trapped up in the chilly northeast until the weather spikes
And is picking up $40 mystery sex pastel on Black Friday.

Pewter, pastel and spider!
Now I just want to start honing on my OWN wish list for the Arlington expo...
Butter, perhaps? Fire?

Can't wait to see pics!


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Pics up! Posted here
Thanks again for all your help

However, if you are just trying to breed Balls and maybe make a few bucks, I would say get yourself a Calico female.

Dave

Maybe investment wasn't the right word. We're both amateur reptile enthusiasts, we just wanted to get a quality morph for Tyler that might be valuable for a while, and would make cool offspring down the road with my spider- since BPs live a pretty long time.
I could never sell him! He's a beloved pet (practically a member of my family) more than anything!
Thanks though!
Tyler ended up choosing a female pewter
And I am on the look out for another male for myself :)
Probably pastave or butter pastel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clairlevee

Maybe investment wasn't the right word. We're both amateur reptile enthusiasts, we just wanted to get a quality morph for Tyler that might be valuable for a while, and would make cool offspring down the road with my spider- since BPs live a pretty long time.
I could never sell him! He's a beloved pet (practically a member of my family) more than anything!
Thanks though!
Tyler ended up choosing a female pewter
And I am on the look out for another male for myself :)
Probably pastave or butter pastel

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Awesome choice! I love pewters :)
My vote is pastave male for you!!

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Calico prices have come way down, and as much as I am not a fan of the Spider, the Spider Calico is one hot combo.

Good luck with your projects.

Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clairlevee

Goodness gracious we've taken a slide into this
He's found a 2013 female pewter for $275 shipped- she's on hold trapped up in the chilly northeast until the weather spikes
And is picking up $40 mystery sex pastel on Black Friday.

Pewter, pastel and spider!
Now I just want to start honing on my OWN wish list for the Arlington expo...
Butter, perhaps? Fire?

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:rofl::O :gj:
I couldn't decide which emoticon fit best, so I went with all of them. This is how it starts lol, next thing you know you'll have a room full of snakes and you'll end up breeding rodents (go on ask me how I know ;)).

It's always nice when your significant other can get involved, but your post about him not liking yellow reminded me of my hubby. When I started looking into breeding and whatnot the only way he was on board with it was if we did everything axanthic because he hated the yellow morphs, yet his favorite snakes we own are the killerbee het axanthic (bright yellow) and the butter ghost (also bright yellow).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by digizure

With your budget, I would have to say the lesserbee is one of my favorite spider crosses. :)

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Those are awesome but you got to take a look at the butter spinners.

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good choice on the pewter, saw the post and shes pretty. i would def look into getting a butter/lesser pastel, they are in your price range. i got this male for $300 shipped, they are one of my fav morphs and even better looking in person.
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...u/DSC00268.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r...u/DSC00331.jpg

also welcome to the bp addiction lol im looking to get a female firefly myself eventho i just got my boy last month, soooo addicting!!!