My first post and my first snake!

Well this is my first post here. Looks like a real nice and informative forum. And here's my ball python. I just got him last sunday. He's my first snake so I am trying to learn as much as I can. I was told to leave him for a week before I handle him so for now all I can do is watch! Oh and I have to give him a name lol.. He is around 18" and 2 months old.

http://g35driver.com/rides/spec/pix/...1091249077.jpg

http://g35driver.com/rides/spec/pix/...1091249109.jpg

just curious, what type of substrate is that?

Hi and Welcome to our little corner of the universe! He's a good lookin guy! :) What kind of setup do you have? Hides, water dish, substrate?

He's gorgeous!

Very nice, What substarte is that ... can ya describe your setup for us?

everyone curious about the substrate........nervous...i can tell..but understandable

He's a pretty little guy! You got good advice about waiting to handle him, but that looks like pine chip bedding, which can be fatal. If that's what it is, please replace it immediately with newspaper or paper towel, clean the cage thoroughly, and watch him for signs of nervous system distress. If he seems okay after a week or two, then you can go back to a natural substrate if you like, but not pine, cedar, redwood, beechwood, or any other wood that's high in phenols.

Funny, I was going to ask about the substrate as well but it looks like it's been covered....Nice lookin' snake you have there. Good luck w/him!

Uh oh.. well it is natural pine shavings. The guy at the reptile store had me buy it with the tank. I saw this type of substrate in the other tanks as well. So should I throw it out?????? You guys are scaring me.

So far I just have the substrate, a glass 10g tank, a water bowl, a cave, a heating pad and two thermometers.

Keep the comments coming!

YES!! Pine has chemicals in it that are damaging to their nervous systems!!!! Get it out like RIGHT NOW, and clean the cage, and replace it with newspaper until you find another substrate.

At the risk of posting a Melissa Kaplan atricle ... no one has explained why pine and cedar are bad substrates. Here is a link with the best information i can find : http://www.anapsid.org/cedar.html . She quotes a Dr. Richard Evans, a veterinary pathologist who seems to expalin why these substances are dangerous to reptiles quite well. The only other sites i could find just said that they are dangerous.

Thanks elevate. I don't understand why they would sell it to me with the snake. I will take it out today. So how much damage have I done with him in that substrate for 6 days?

Its hard to tell What damage might have been done, if any. I've never had any experience dealing with a snake who has been in that situation, mainly just because its such a huge NO in reptile husbandry.

That was very irresponsible of the pet shop to sell you that substrate, and I fear that other ball pythons may not be as lucky as yours is to have an owner that cares about these things.

If he continues to feed and act normally otherwise, you are lucky so don't worry about it. Good luck with him, and keep us updated.

Welcome to the site! Nice lookin bp you have there, too
Glad you got hipped to the substrate issue, if you have any questions about types, you can go to "forums" and then "search" and type substrate and you should get a gazillion results as it's been discussed quite a bit. Sometimes better than waiting for posts to be answered, lol.....like that's EVER been a problem here! We all love to help each other out here which makes this a great site to be a member of.

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Originally Posted by led4urhead

At the risk of posting a Melissa Kaplan atricle ... no one has explained why pine and cedar are bad substrates. Here is a link with the best information i can find : http://www.anapsid.org/cedar.html . She quotes a Dr. Richard Evans, a veterinary pathologist who seems to expalin why these substances are dangerous to reptiles quite well. The only other sites i could find just said that they are dangerous.

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Thanks for the article led. Now I have to stop and think of the damage that was done BEFORE I bought him. At the reptile store, he was in a tank with the same substrate if I remember correctly. Poor guy he's only 2 months old.

EgyG35, Did you find out exactly what the substarte is?

This is what the reptile store gave me.

http://www.hartz.com/Our%20Products/...2205360621.jpg

It's exactly that one but not the lemon scent.




Here's what I just bought. Is this ok to use??
http://www.vrgpet.com/images/vrg/030835.jpg

And I also got him this
http://www.petco.com/assets/product_...199702011B.jpg

What do you guys think??

Since you just got the snake, it would probably be a good idea to keep him/her on newspaper for a little while so you can make sure that the feces/urates look normal. Then to keep stuff simple and cheaper, go for aspen/cypress bedding. Both of those come in much bigger bags for a much cheaper price and both work well for humidity. The bedding you just bought looks a little like moss? But anyway, for just starting out, I'd use aspen or outdoor carpet. Alot easier to check for poopy or parasites. Oh! Speaking of parasites, get a vet appt. and take a FRESH fecal sample to the vet and have mr. snakey checked for parasites. It's a fast and easy check, price ranges from $10-$20, and takes about 5-10 minutes to do (doing them myself anyway :) ) Hope this helps. Keep asking questions, as it helps you and alot of other people learn :-D

Thanks Becky,

What I bought is not moss it's natural bark. I will put some newpaper for now. Can you tell me what makes the feces look normal? I will set up an appointment with a vet thanks!

Feces should be firm and moist, but not loose and runny or overly dry(the actual poo, not pee or urates). And for a good herp vet, you can look here:
www.arav.org or http://www.herpvetconnection.com/
There are a ton of vets on that site. Hopefully you can find a good one near you.

I was wondering if you visited the pet shop you got your snake from, to warn them about using pine.

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Originally Posted by Blink

I was wondering if you visited the pet shop you got your snake from, to warn them about using pine.

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No I haven't visited them. I can call them though. I took their business card. They're called Amazon Reptile Center in Montclair, CA. Their website is amazonreptile.com

I know that a lot of professional herp keepers use aspen bedding. It's safe, because it's a hardwood tree and not a pine. Pine bedding has phenols in it that can be harmful if continuously inhaled by your herp. If you merely smell the pine bedding, you can see what I mean; though it smells good to us, there could be fumes being given off that can cause respiratory problems in rodents and reptiles alike.
Aspen is a perfect bedding, if you want something made out of wood. I prefer newspaper, because it lets you clearly see any urates or feces, so you can make sure they're not runny and are solidly packed. runny stools indicate parasites.

Here's an update. I dumped all the pine and cleaned the tank. I put in newspaper for now but I also have reptibark. From what I read it's hard to find feces in the reptibark so I might return it and stick with newspaper. Can I use felt ?? I think black felt would look nice.

Well, today is one week since I had him so I held him in my hand for about an hour then I fed him in his tank. Here are some pics of my setup and his first meal. He seems to be doing fine! Sorry for all the pics I got excited.

http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksURCyRD.jpg
http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksMTXfMA.jpg
http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksSWjakQ.jpg
http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksyVGFAC.jpg
http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksQAwwnL.jpg
http://www.cpixel.com/picdir/p/playi...icksgJxwdY.jpg

He's a little cutie for sure! If you want to use a nicer-looking substrate than newspaper, you might consider using outdoor carpeting or AstroTurf. You can buy it inexpensively at home improvement stores, cut it to size, and have a couple of spare pieces ready to swap out at cleaning time. Just make sure to bleach and rinse it thoroughly before using it the first time to get rid of any strong chemical fumes it may be carrying from the manufacturing process. $6 will get you enough for several pieces.

WELCOME to the site!

Yeah nice looking fella - get him off those phenol fuming chips tho! There are a few wood-based products that can be bad for all snakes - mainly due to the phenol fumes - such as cedar pine and beechwood among others.

Rally nice pattern on him and he looks well proportioned - any clue what they were feeding him?

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Originally Posted by Smulkin

WELCOME to the site!

Yeah nice looking fella - get him off those phenol fuming chips tho! There are a few wood-based products that can be bad for all snakes - mainly due to the phenol fumes - such as cedar pine and beechwood among others.

Rally nice pattern on him and he looks well proportioned - any clue what they were feeding him?

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Thanks Smulkin.
I did take him off the pine shavings, for now he is on newspaper until I decide if I want to use the reptibark I have or go with carpet or turf.

They were feeding him small hopper mice since he hatched. The pictures above show his first meal since I got him one week ago.

Hey everyone when is a good time to give him his second snake?? Last feeding was Sunday.

Thanks

Second snake? I think you mean mouse ;). You definitely want to wait a week between feedings, so Sunday would be good :)

LOL yeah I meant mouse. I read in the "ball python manual" to feed young ones every 5 days, but I will feed him Sunday thanks led!

Don't handle the snake within a few days of feeding also, or they might vomit. And trust me, snake vomit is NOT a pretty sight!

I think the smell is worse then the sight! :P

Not to mention the stress it puts on the snakes digestive system. :o

That's disgusting! Thanks for the heads up..

Here's a nice new pic of him striking a pose.

https://ball-pythons.net/modules/cop...nake%20045.jpg

cute! he's checkin you out :wink:

Great head shot man!

Thanks led!

Well feeding #2 was successful in a large paper kinkos bag. Question, should I be feeding him larger mice than that?? That hopper seemed to be too small.
Thanks, and sorry for the graphic picture.

https://ball-pythons.net/modules/cop...0/FEEDING2.JPG

Hehe, no need to be worried about "graphic" feeding pics. I'm sure anyone here would be used to seeing such things. ;) And he's quite a looker. 8)

Looking at the pic, it looks like he could have taken a bit larger mouse. I can see part of his body in the pic that seems thicker than the prey item, and usually a safe way to guage the prey item is by matching the mouse size with the size of your snakes widest part. So next time I'm sure you could try a bit larger. I've yet to experience feeding a snake yet though, so I'm only going by what knowlege I've gained from research. :(

yes, i agree that he could take a larger mouse.

and not to worry cody, your day is fast approaching. soon we will be looking at pics of your bp taking down a meal. :D

For sure. I just gotta get my hands on that digital camera at Walmart that I could kick myself for not grabbing last week. 8)

I agree, looks like you could go a little bigger.

Cody, was it on sale or something? Always irks me when I miss out on the bargains!

EDIT: Also, just another option for the substrate, I am currently using what they call 'Shop Towels on a roll' from Walmart (made by Scott). They can be found in or around the automotive section. They are like papertowels but thicker and more absorbent. They are softer and more durable than regular papertowels as well. One roll costs $1 something, but I think they work great!

Nope, it was an everyday price of 29.99. Of course, it's nothing near a top of the line digital cam, but it's perfect for what I need it for; snakey pics. :) It was a Vivitar digital camera. It'll do until I find 120 extra dollars and get one of them snazzy cams from Radioshack with the 1.5 inch lcd screen in the back to view the pics you take.

I need a new digi (been on the 'want' list for a few months now), as a matter of fact I was just looking @ them at Wally World this afternoon, almost bought a cheapy but decided against it for now...

yeah the cheap ones are usually fine for taking pics that you are just going to post online and stuff. you really need something nicer and higher res if you want to print the pics, but $30 is not bad at all for something to get started with. i looked at that one that you mentioned cody, and it takes 640x480 pics which is totally big enough for web. i can't wait to see pics of pelota when you get her. :D

I have a pic of her from the breeders website. Some may or may not have seen it before in a thread I posted a bit ago.
http://www.dioxazine.com/Real/Breedi...s/image001.jpg

That'll do until I get her and some pics. ;)

And sorry for hijacking your thread and having it go offtopic a bit Egy. :oops:

Hey I don't mind LOL nice snake cody!

Well I decided to feed him a second hopper one hour after the grey one. In about 10 minutes, Mr Mouse was gone. I know some say feeding 2 in one day is a no-no, but I really didn't want to keep the mouse in my room, and I really think they were too small for him. So, that's his third mouse since I had him, and he seems to be doing great. Next week I am going for one large mouse as opposed to two hoppers. I think it was the substrate that made him hungry for more LOL.

Take a look!


https://ball-pythons.net/modules/cop..._FEEDING3~.JPG

https://ball-pythons.net/modules/cop...l_FEEDING3.JPG

Mmmm, lean cuisine and haagen dazs ice cream. ;)

Oh, and are you feeding live? I noticed in the first pics there were little mouse poopies, and in this pic looks like the mouse took a little wee wee, lol. It's really your choice if you feed live, prekilled, or frozen, but a prekilled mouse is a safe mouse. lol

yeah the first 3 were live, but no problems. I will try to do the prekilled next week with the larger mouse, I just need to build some nerve.

You could always try f/t too. And if you want to switch him to f/t it's better to start now when they're young. Better chance of doing the switch successfully. :)

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Originally Posted by Cody

You could always try f/t too. And if you want to switch him to f/t it's better to start now when they're young. Better chance of doing the switch successfully. :)

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Hey all I was wondering how big will he get at 6 months and 1 yr??

and where do i buy the frozen mice?