Super Dwarf Reticulated Python Care and Information

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...714/medium.jpg

Alright guys, I get a lot of messages regarding Super Dwarf Reticulated Pythons (SD Retics) so I wanted to make a culmulative thread that covers the basics as well as many of the genetics involved with these snakes (Mutation %s, locality translations, etc). This is not meant to be a catch all, but it is meant to be a generic resource for those seeking information on these amazing creatures. I’m pulling much of this from an article I’m writing for Reptilian Magazine (German based) so in the future, those who speak German can grab the article, or check it out online . . . bis dan (till then) . . .
Reticulated pythons are known as one of the largest growing python species in the world (length, not weight – that title still remains with the Burmese and potentially Anaconda – a boa sp.) this makes them a challenge for captivity for many keepers. Not everyone is prepared to feed an 18’ snake, or much less house it, or even care for it when cleanings are needed. While growing these giants can be highly rewarding, there is still something to be said for their smaller counterparts, something just as rewarding watching their growth rates and the variation between individuals, and even just between collections (different breeders use different feeding strategies). Of course, if we compare a dwarf boa (3’) to a Super Dwarf Retic (7’) we are still dealing with a pretty large species that is quick, always hungry, and seemingly highly intelligent when compared to other python species.

Bob Clark imported a small batch of reticulated pythons that came from a smaller island off of the main islands of Indonesia. These females were gravid, and barely over 6’! From these eggs, produced incredibly small hatchlings when compared to “mainland” retics (30-45g vs 110+grams) Bob was fortunate enough to be wise in marketing and named these smaller reticulated pythons “Super Dwarfs” (Bob Clark, Reptiles Magazine 2002). The problem was these were slightly more flighty, sometimes bity, and more problematic, there were no mutations. This is when we came to the crossings of SD and mainland retics.

When people sell, advertise, SD retics, they will generally have a % in front of the term SD, this is calculated based on how much of the original SD bloodline is left in the cross. Many people have begin crossing up to 3 generations back into SD after getting the mutation transferred creating smaller and smaller Tigers, Albinos, and more! Let’s take a look at an example of creating 75% SD Tiger het albino:

We start with an Albino Super tiger male, and we cross him with a pure SD retic . . . All the young are born and we have all offspring as 50% SD Tiger het Albinos. If we then took these offspring and bred them together – we would hit F2 50% SD Super Tiger Albinos. . . Ok, now we’re going to take one of these and cross it back to mom, the original SD retic (pure). Again, all offspring will be Tiger het Albino, but in this case they will be 75% SD blood (25% from dad, 50% from mom). Of course, getting to this point already took a GOOD bit of time with 3 years minimum for the first females to get up to size, and then another 18 months for the male to get up to size to breed back to mom. Nearly 5 years vested JUST for Tiger Hets that are 75% SD. . .
Whenever you start getting interested into SD retics, it is very important that you understand that only Anery came from an SD locale originally, so the only pure morph you can get is Anery (for example, my adult breedable Anery SD Male is just under 5’). Any other morph (Tiger, Albino, Platinum, Sunfire, Motley, Pied, Blonde, etc) came from mainland blood, and thus the offspring WILL have mainland blood in them (larger growing). There are a few mutations that were known to originate from dwarf blood (Cow(Phantom + Orange Ghost Stripe), GC, Genetic Stripe) but these are still potentially larger growing females (12-16’).
Alright, you have an idea of the % SD blood, but what do you need to know now? Perhaps it’s a good idea to look into a couple questions: 1) How large were the parents? 2) What were their known localities. One of the issues with the term SD is it’s quite ambiguous. People use it to refer to 3-4 different locales that are known to achieve different sizes (ranging from 5-10’):

Kalatoa: 5-7’ with some pure females still attaining 9’
Kayuadi: 7-10’ (Questionable as a Dwarf Locale with some females getting larger)
Madu: 6-10’
Honey Island: 7-9’ (Least available it seems)

And taking a look at some of the dwarf locales in comparison: Yellowheads (10-14’), Selayar (Where Genetic Stripe originated) (8-13’), and Jampea (8-16’)
When we start crossing these bloodlines with mainland blood, it’s not always cut and dry how large a snake will get. Many 50% SD blood lines are breeding around 7-9’ in length, with a few very strongly fed females breeding at 12’ in length. Once you get to the 75% SD mark its arguable that the influence from mainland is not there. My standpoint, and again JUST my standpoint, is that 25% of mainland blood does still effect the size, and if fed heavily, these females will still maintain a length up to 10’ even with 75% being in the Kalatoa locality. Let’s examine the evolution of super dwarf / dwarf and how our husbandry might effect this.
Smaller retic locales are located on smaller island chains off of the main cost of Indonesia. Resource availability is not always as abundant as other islands, thus creating a demand for animals to either evolve to use less food (smaller animals, slower metabolism) or die. Over time through environmental pressures, smaller and smaller reticulated pythons were selected, where the larger individuals would continue to die and not be able to pass on their genes. A look at the island of Jampea. This is an island that contains a very large breeding colony of seabirds. During the breeding season, these snakes have an abundance of food with bird hatchlings as their prey. After this peak, however, they will go back into a slower period where food is scarce. . . These are one of the most variable dwarf species. Many females have bred at 9’, while other females are breeding at 16’. Feeding amount seems to have an influence!

Husbandry basics:

SD Retic crosses are still one of the best kept pets in a growing market, where legislation is fighting us. They retain the personality of the mainlands, but are variable enough to be found in a small package. Pure SDs are flighty as mentioned before. They are smaller, and males almost feel like handling a very fast and aggressive corn snake. But, when you cross them into mainland, the blood seems to have an influence on their attitudes. Not only do they get bigger, but they also seems to be much calmer, and now you have morphs, and variation to availability. Housing SD retics is nearly identical to their mainland counterparts, just smaller in cage requirements. A basking spot of 92 degrees should be offered, and a background ambient around 80-82. A cool side can range from 76-80. And Humidity should be kept around 65% with a large water area offered as many retics will enjoy a soak. A hide can be offered, but do not be surprised if it is rarely used. Young SD retics (6-12 months) will use a hide if given, but once they are past the year mark, it will vary based on individuals. Males can be housed in a 3x2x2 cage for pure SD, and 50% SD crosses and greater can be housed in a 4’x2’x2’ enclosure. Pure females likewise can be kept in a 4’x2’x2’ enclosure, where 50% SD may do better in a larger enclosure like a Vision 432 or 600 series (4’x3’x2’ or 6’x2’x1.3’). When you get into the bigger crosses with Dwarf Blood being the major contributor, you can consider the same requirements as 50% SD crosses with SOME larger females needing a minimum 6’x2’x1.3’ (vision 600) cage.

How to feed:

Feeding schedules kind of vary with keepers and even with snakes. Pure SD will come out of the egg and be ready to feed on adult mice right off the bat, 50% SD crosses, will come out and be taking Rat pups readily, and Dwarfs may come out ready to take on Weanling rats. For myself this is the feeding schedule that I used, and it worked VERY well, but it did have varying results across individuals. . . For the first 6-12 months, they were fed once every 4 days until they made it to Medium rats. Once they hit medium rats they were dropped to every 7 days. Once they hit rabbits males were dropped to every 14 days and females every 7-10 days. Many keepers will only feed SD retics mice for the first few months, and try and keep them as small, but as healthy, as they can for extended periods. After all, you are getting an SD retic to be amazed at how small it is. This is fine, and its arguable that this is “healthier” than a 4 day feeding schedule. But my 20 month old who was raised on this schedule did absolutely perfect, and is trim, and now growing very slowly at 8-9’ and eating 1.5lb rabbits every week. Likewise, my two Dwarf Girls, 4 months age difference, had very different results. Both were started on the same feeding schedule and method, but the Purple Albino took off and is sitting around 12-13’ currently, and feeding on 4lb rabbits weekly. Meanwhile, the genetic stripe het purple is still under 5’ and pounding a single Large rat a week and putting on weight slowly. Whatever fits your retic (keeps them trim, not pushing, and giving you regular feces) go with that. Some times you have to test the waters, try feeding every 4 days, try feeding weekly, weigh the pros and cons, and the way your snake will behave. Keep in mind these are not Ball Pythons, they WILL and DO eat always. Most retics are vicious feeders, and will eat any and every time food enters the cage. Most will never need to see live food, but a few will and can be picky eaters.

Conclusion:

With more breeders hitting the market, consumers are receiving more and more choices, with new and upcoming dwarf and super dwarf projects every year. However, be careful if a breeder can not answer the few and important questions: How big were the parents, what were their localities if known. Do not be led to believe that pure albino SD’s exist, and never trust craig’s list for that too good to be true “dwarf” retic that is 4 years old and only 2 ft long! (anyone can say a 5 month old hatchling is 4 years and actually an SD).
Even though these snakes are in a smaller package, always show them great respect as their teeth are still very much a threat to your skin and future blood donations. These snakes are fast, intelligent, and very strong. A 12’ 50% SD female, will be just as strong as a 12’ mainland, and can still pose a real threat to your life, should you make a stupid feeding error (SFE). Always check local and state laws regarding keeping Python reticulatus, even though these snakes are distinct from the mainland counter parts that may be banned specifically in your county, they are still under the same species name and will be considered illegal. For states or cities with size limits, ensure you buy from a trusted breeder, and KNOW parental size. Ask their feeding schedule if they raised the adults from young, and follow it the T. With retics, even 25% mainland blood can have a dramatic effect on their final size if fed heavily.

Cheers,

Cody Conway

Reptile Experts – www.reptileexperts.com

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...7/original.jpg
Hatch Date 04/2012 - F2 50% Kalatoa SD Tiger 66% Het Albino

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...8/original.jpg
Hatch Date 03/2012 - 50% Kayuadi SD Platinum het Anery

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...1/original.jpg
Hatchdate 03/2012 - 25% Kalatoa, 12.5% Jampea Tiger Motley het Purple Albino

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...5/original.jpg
Hatch Date 02/2012 - 62.5% Jampea Purple Albino

All four of these girls were raised on my same feeding schedule proposed here, all were given the same rates, same food items, same sized enclosures as they progressed. The Platinum is currently feeding on 2-3lb Rabbits, the tiger is onl 1-2lb Rabbits, the Tiger Motley is on 2-3 lb rabbits, and the Purple is on 4lb rabbits, all weekly.

This is just a nice comparison I put together tonight while I did some cleaning before work. The tub in the image is a 41 qt rubbermaid to give you an idea of size reference.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/y7eva8a9.jpg
Platinum in a 6qt tub back in december 2012

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/2y7eha8u.jpg
Tiger girl in a 6qt Tub in december of last year as well

Again just additional growth comparisons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/ba6aja8a.jpg

And last image comparison for tonight. This is a 2013 of the same parents as the tiger from 2012. Super Tiger 66% het white phase Albino. This was from middle of last week.

Hatch was April 2013


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the information, I am not much for SDs or even dwarfs but still a good read.

Thank you for this resource on SDs. There is far too many misconceptions on these blood lines, and far too many scams. I look forward to moving into these projects once i move to a new location and have the space for them. On that note, do you have any breeder recommendations other then Bob Clark himself?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Thank you for this resource on SDs. There is far too many misconceptions on these blood lines, and far too many scams. I look forward to moving into these projects once i move to a new location and have the space for them. On that note, do you have any breeder recommendations other then Bob Clark himself?

---

I have a friend who bought some SDs from Vital Exotics and he is quite satisfied so far.

Travis Kubes - he works with very small adults, and has an outstanding reputation. His prices are much more advantages than the likes of the big boys (Prehistoric pets, bob clark, and even Vital exotics at this point). Jason Reed over at Reed's Retics, is also a great place to invest in for confidence. . .

If you are interested in amel (type 3 albino) then check out Stephanie Laumeyer at, The Snake Pusher. She has some excellent blood lines of 50-75% SD Amels and hets, while the price for a visual will be steep, the quality of temperment is best I've ever seen. She breeds for calmer snakes it seems.

Again, I have a few snakes from Travis Kubes, and I have been more than happy working with him and talking with him at shows and on the phone. Just add his facebook business page into your feed (Travis kubes reptiles) and wait for the new clutches to go up.

** correction **

Madu vs Honey island is the same locale - hence why it's hard to find the Honey Island, people are more prone to go under the Madu locale information.

Cheers

This thread is great!

This post is fantastic, thank you!

Gotta admit, I've been interested in SDs for a while now. Is there any more info on the pure locality stuff? Resources, what to ask, what to look for as far as records on animals, that kind of thing?

There are certain things to look for with scale counts on the head. There are very few resources that can point you directly to which subspecies (locality) is which because only a few are trying to be recognized by science as an actual subspecies of python reticulatus, (Sula, Jampea, Sumatra, etc). I can point you to the start of some great information about this here:

http://reticulatedpython.info/me/pap...ic%20paper.pdf

I'm starting a project with my currect collection and taking head scale sheds and scanning them on a PC. I may try and contact some guys with pure locals and get them to mail me a head shed if they wouldn't mind for me to process, this would be the best start I know of to getting an accurate way to pinpoint pure locale information. The only pure in my collection is a Kalatoa. The rest are crosses with Jampea, Kaydui, and Saleyer.

One of the biggest things it seems is - with Jampea, things look lighter, and pures almost look Anery. For Kalatoa, they generally have very long heads in relation to the width. Saleyer have some of the brightest orange eyes I have seen. Kaydui and Kalatoa both exhibit diffusion of the pattern directly behind the neck. Though there are mutations out there that do this (granite back aka het anthrax, or shatter) it can get confusing.

Cheers

Thank you! Just reading the link now :)

This thread is great! I am captivated by these guys, as well as standard retics but I'm smart enough to know that with me being paraplegic, caring for one of these guys is just sadly out of the question for me as far as safety.

You'd be surprised, a super dwarf PURE male, is much like a VERY active and fast corn snake. Size wise at least. . . their teeth are a little more dangerous, and they can wrap quicker and harder. But for a size perspective, I truly believe that SD retics can be kept by even beginner keepers with a little bit of caution and care. Feeding aggression is a real thing with retics - even small guys will strike fast and quick and show very strong feeding responses.

http://www.pbase.com/codyconway/imag...8060/large.jpg
Fresh look at the April 2013, Super Dwarf Super Tiger 66% het Albino girl from Travis Kubes, situated beside a standard sized DVD. Empty.

Quick question. There was a female retic on vital exotics I was interested in that states it is 31.25% SD, 37.5% Dwarf. It didn't have the actual locales. Would she do best in a 6x2 cage at adult size, or 7-8'?

Thank you so much for your posts and your video by the way! The comparisons helped a lot.

6x2 should be fine :) there is enough dwarf blood in there to keep it under control size wise. I would expect it to get into the size range of 8-11 ft but with heavy feeding you may even see it reach around 13 top. Kris keeps up with his genetics of locality just fine so his % are trust worthy. He's a normal on the nation and even on here from time to time to "show off"
Heh.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quick question, could something like a 31.25% SD, 37.5% Dwarf do OK in a CB 70 rack system? Everything I'm seeing on YT for housing SD/Dwarfs looks to be in that range of setup. I know bigger is ideal, like feeding every four days, but in reality, would a CB 70 work if you aimed at a 7-10 feeding cycle?

thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DSM47

Quick question, could something like a 31.25% SD, 37.5% Dwarf do OK in a CB 70 rack system? Everything I'm seeing on YT for housing SD/Dwarfs looks to be in that range of setup. I know bigger is ideal, like feeding every four days, but in reality, would a CB 70 work if you aimed at a 7-10 feeding cycle?

thanks

---

No, this would work for the first year maybe 2 if you slow fed it every 7-10 days a small to medium meal. But it can not live it's whole life in a cb-70!! Those purple tubs in the pictures are cb70 for reference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

No, this would work for the first year maybe 2 if you slow fed it every 7-10 days a small to medium meal. But it can not live it's whole life in a cb-70!! Those purple tubs in the pictures are cb70 for reference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Slow feeding is going to have no bearing on whether it grows larger less quickly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

Slow feeding is going to have no bearing on whether it grows larger less quickly.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

---

lol . . . obviously you have zero experience with retics containg SD / D blood. . . I have a sibling to Travis kubes white super tiger 50% SD . . . he fed his small meals every 7-10 days. I fed mine every 4 days for the first year, then moved it to weekly large meals. At NARBC travis' sibling to mine was 3 ft long and maybe 350-400 grams. . . . mine from that exact same clutch at the time of comparison was 7' and around 5 kilos . . . but please, explain yourself and experience in this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

lol . . . obviously you have zero experience with retics containg SD / D blood. . . I have a sibling to Travis kubes white super tiger 50% SD . . . he fed his small meals every 7-10 days. I fed mine every 4 days for the first year, then moved it to weekly large meals. At NARBC travis' sibling to mine was 3 ft long and maybe 350-400 grams. . . . mine from that exact same clutch at the time of comparison was 7' and around 5 kilos . . . but please, explain yourself and experience in this?

---

I'll take your scientific degrees into consideration, but it's not going to limit the full size of the animal in the end. It's genetics alot for how big it will get, not how you feed it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

I never said it would - it would only grow it at a slower rate without detrimental results to its health. The end size will still be the same between mine and Travis' mine just got there faster, and as a result MIGHT stay slightly larger than his. But in the end - this is why I stated slow feeding will help you sustain it for 1-2 years. Not it's entire life . . . a snake will not "grow to its max comfort in a small tank" . . lets break that mindset yet again

I think this is disregarding epigenetics quite a bit. Feeding less food has been observed to reduced the size of full grown animals in everyone who has adult retics, dwarf or not. Genetics do severally restrict the range the animal can grow to but food intake is an important part of this equation as well. Of course we do not have scientific studies for this topic to review as of yet just observations from keepers.

i have an 75 % SD Tiger Anery from travis kubes/..... what i'm asking is ...
do anery tiger must have a silver eyes??? cause mine look a little bit orange.....

but travis / kris brown said that anery eyes are random.. it doesn't have to be silver .... IS THIS right???

thanks

I'd actually like to know that as well. I think my SD is an anery but she definitely has orange eyes. Not sure what signifance the eyes have on genetics.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i1...ps6408701f.jpg

Pretty sure the eyes aren't linked with the morph trait 100% of the time. I toured Prehistoric Pets while I was on vacation in Cali and there was plenty of variety of eye color among the same morph. The dwarf purple albino het gen stripe male I picked up had a brother and they put them side by side for me to pick. My male has silver/white eyes with a very thin line of red while his brother had completely bright red eyes.

Sorry I missed this question - to answer, no they do not have to have silver eyes. Many will be born with silver eyes, but they will begin to shift toward brown and slight orange over time as they grow older. If you purchased it from Travis Kubes pythons you have a proper Anery, and it will prove out when you put it to a proper clutch, no worries there.

My pure SD Anery from Travis has slightly brown eyes, but was born with silver eyes, I'll try and post the 2 shots of it then and now. . .

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/05/ehe4enas.jpg
Took this last night

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/05/ne2eqavu.jpg
As a baby (courtesy of Shane Costello)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have been in love with retics from the first one I saw in person, but knew I wouldn't have the facilities for an animal of that size. With the advent of the SD's it looked like a possibility. Well, there is a male available locally that the owner cannot take to where they are moving to because they are illegal there. Nothing on his bloodlines in the post, but he has wonderful coloring, and is purportedly het. purple. Hopefully they have good answers to questions I have from what I have learned reading these posts. Thank you all for the info. I will definitely post some pics if I end up bringing him home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vinnimac

I have been in love with retics from the first one I saw in person, but knew I wouldn't have the facilities for an animal of that size. With the advent of the SD's it looked like a possibility. Well, there is a male available locally that the owner cannot take to where they are moving to because they are illegal there. Nothing on his bloodlines in the post, but he has wonderful coloring, and is purportedly het. purple. Hopefully they have good answers to questions I have from what I have learned reading these posts. Thank you all for the info. I will definitely post some pics if I end up bringing him home.

---

Good luck. Remember anything het albino will typically run only about 50% SD with some 75% SD het albinos out there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

Good luck. Remember anything het albino will typically run only about 50% SD with some 75% SD het albinos out there.

---

I have two 50% SD 100% het purple females that are two year old sisters. They're a nice size, about 7-8' now and starting to thicken up rather than grow longer. I'd be surprised if they ever topped 10'.

Great write up on dwarf retics. My two mainland blood retics are slowly making me convert from boas to retics as my favorite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

I have two 50% SD 100% het purple females that are two year old sisters. They're a nice size, about 7-8' now and starting to thicken up rather than grow longer. I'd be surprised if they ever topped 10'.

---

My f1 50% SD male is passed 10' :-X the generation number makes a large difference. My f2 50% SD female tiger het white is only 7 and some change :) and she just turned 4


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoshSloane

Great write up on dwarf retics. My two mainland blood retics are slowly making me convert from boas to retics as my favorite.

---

Retics have a way of doing that. There's just something about them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yodawagon

Retics have a way of doing that. There's just something about them.

---

I don't want to say that they're more "social" because snakes really aren't social critters, but of all the species I have they're the most willing to interact with people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yodawagon

Retics have a way of doing that. There's just something about them.

---

Agreed, best snakes to keep by far. IMO of course [emoji846]

I love my retics, and they are my favorite to handle. I used to be only interested in boas, but my retics now have most of my attention, and honestly are easier to interact with than some of my boas.

So I didn't see any mention of this but for those with SD retics, how are their temperments on average? Are they as laid back as boas or are they generally flighty? Asking mostly about females. I've got a couple AP cages coming and when they get here, i'll have a couple temp/quarantine tanks free and been kicking around the idea of either a Jungle carpet from Nick Mutton, a Hog island boa from Vin Russo if I can catch one when his female has babies or possibly a SD retic from Vital Exotics. Never had a retic so not sure about their personalities and from what I have read, SDs tend to be more flighty by nature where as mainlands are more relaxed. Vital Exotics ones are 37% SD and 31% dwarf. Are SD retics something you can take outside in the yard and laid back like boas? Oh and i'm also looking for something that is manageable for one person which is the reason I'm looking at SDs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

So I didn't see any mention of this but for those with SD retics, how are their temperments on average? Are they as laid back as boas or are they generally flighty? Asking mostly about females. I've got a couple AP cages coming and when they get here, i'll have a couple temp/quarantine tanks free and been kicking around the idea of either a Jungle carpet from Nick Mutton, a Hog island boa from Vin Russo if I can catch one when his female has babies or possibly a SD retic from Vital Exotics. Never had a retic so not sure about their personalities and from what I have read, SDs tend to be more flighty by nature where as mainlands are more relaxed. Vital Exotics ones are 37% SD and 31% dwarf. Are SD retics something you can take outside in the yard and laid back like boas? Oh and i'm also looking for something that is manageable for one person which is the reason I'm looking at SDs.

---

i've read that SD's are flighty as well. Yodawagon here on the forum has a 100% SD and says his is really chill.

i wanna get a 100% SD. Brian from Breaking Balls in Tacoma has a breeding pair but won't breed them b/c he believes there's not enough demand locally (and i don't think he's on the list of pre-Lacy act shippers). if u are down for a 100% Kalatoa SD, we can get like another 10 peeps committed to buy up his clutch. 100% Kalatoa's say between 5-7 feet. if u wanna get a cool morph, high % SD and other high % Dwarf blood will keep them smaller but it's really a guessing game as to when they will max.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

So I didn't see any mention of this but for those with SD retics, how are their temperments on average? Are they as laid back as boas or are they generally flighty? Asking mostly about females. I've got a couple AP cages coming and when they get here, i'll have a couple temp/quarantine tanks free and been kicking around the idea of either a Jungle carpet from Nick Mutton, a Hog island boa from Vin Russo if I can catch one when his female has babies or possibly a SD retic from Vital Exotics. Never had a retic so not sure about their personalities and from what I have read, SDs tend to be more flighty by nature where as mainlands are more relaxed. Vital Exotics ones are 37% SD and 31% dwarf. Are SD retics something you can take outside in the yard and laid back like boas? Oh and i'm also looking for something that is manageable for one person which is the reason I'm looking at SDs.

---

The more % mainland the better attitude they typically have but of course the bigger they get. I have a 50% f2 tiger female that is from Travis Kubes. She never exceeded 8 ft despite being on rabbits and just turned 4 back in March. Her attitude is slightly spastic but for the most part I can take her outside without too much fear. On the flipside my Anery male pure SD who was the size of a corn snake, he was basically a colubrid in attitude and wanted to bolt anytime he got the chance. This is partially due to the fact most SD stuff that is pure came from wild caught parents right now (although we may be getting deeper into captive generations by now).

I was on a waiting list for a pair of Russo Hogg Island, the dude was very nice at first but after months of waiting for the clutch to feed, after the last update I sent to him (7 months after paying in full) he basically was annoyed and suggested canceling my order. . . Nick Mutton however, I have done a fair bit of business with and have always been absolutely pleased. Just as a side note.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good to hear. Yeah i'm not really holding my breath on the Hog Island as it sounds like its a mad rush for them when they go up for sale and I personally don't like rushing headlong into purchasing a pet i'm going to have for 20 years or more lol. As for Nick Mutton, I've been eyeballing his Jungles as I love the color of them and he actually lives fairly close to me kind of, basically on the other side of Washington lol. As for the retic, think the lavender albinos which are the ones I've been looking at from Vital Exotics are 37% SD and 31% dwarf so I'm going to guess the rest is mainland. I really don't want something that is going to bolt every chance it gets like a corn or other colubrid lol. I'm getting too old to be chasing down skinny fast snakes like when I was a kid. And something around 8' or so is fine. I just don't want a surprise of something that is 14' lol.

My 100% kalatoa female is very curious. It's been awhile since I've had a corn snake, so I can't really compare. She's definitely active, but not in an annoying way that would make her hard to enjoy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sauzo

Good to hear. Yeah i'm not really holding my breath on the Hog Island as it sounds like its a mad rush for them when they go up for sale and I personally don't like rushing headlong into purchasing a pet i'm going to have for 20 years or more lol. As for Nick Mutton, I've been eyeballing his Jungles as I love the color of them and he actually lives fairly close to me kind of, basically on the other side of Washington lol. As for the retic, think the lavender albinos which are the ones I've been looking at from Vital Exotics are 37% SD and 31% dwarf so I'm going to guess the rest is mainland. I really don't want something that is going to bolt every chance it gets like a corn or other colubrid lol. I'm getting too old to be chasing down skinny fast snakes like when I was a kid. And something around 8' or so is fine. I just don't want a surprise of something that is 14' lol.

---

I've been eye-balling the same Vital snakes, started off thinking about a big BCC to go with my little central american BCI, but it seems like everyone who comes in contact with a retic falls in love with them so there must be something to it, right? I have a few nube questions, sorry for that, but i figure this thread has a lot of knowledgeable people on it. Regarding the 37/31 Vital retics (god, those albino lavenders are gorgeous) - what kind of size difference would you expect to see between a male and a female- both length and girth? Also, and this probably applies to most SD influence snakes, i know the rate of feeding has a huge effect on the rate of growth, but at what age do they stop growing (or slow down, anyway)? I'm more familiar with boas, so i see a 3 year old boa and expect to see a lot of growth over the following 3 or 4 years, what's it like for retics?

EDIT: forgot to say thank you to everyone for all the great info, i'd be lost without you. Special thanks to Cody for this thread and all the great YT vids (but how about some update, man? i've watched the three long ones 100 times now)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reptileexperts

I never said it would - it would only grow it at a slower rate without detrimental results to its health. The end size will still be the same between mine and Travis' mine just got there faster, and as a result MIGHT stay slightly larger than his. But in the end - this is why I stated slow feeding will help you sustain it for 1-2 years. Not it's entire life . . . a snake will not "grow to its max comfort in a small tank" . . lets break that mindset yet again

---

May I ask what people mean when they talk about ' stunted growth ' due to under feeding !?

Is this just a load of nonsense ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zincubus

May I ask what people mean when they talk about ' stunted growth ' due to under feeding !?

Is this just a load of nonsense ?

---

Anna from this Forum can be a great testament to that. She rescued a male retic that was very much underfed, undersized, and a few years on its life. When gave proper husbandry and fed regularly, it grew back to its proper potential.

The key rule is that dwarf and superdwarf retics have been designed by evolution on smaller islands that are isolated with less abundance in food items. They are able to slow their metabolism down enough to live on smaller portions of annual food intake, with large intakes happening only a couple times a year and pretty much none after that. Mainland retics that grow larger are not designed by evolution this way. They need to continually eat to grow healthy, once full grown they do become more stagnant and their metabolism slows down. This causes them to become obese when fed in heavy amounts.

So stunted growth is seemingly only a temporary thing.

What great timing on this post - I just recently got active again. Yes, he's in the 12-13' range now and 35lbs, after being only 6' long and TWO pounds when I rescued him at 3 years of age.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...e73d5cbf4d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...84b0b89401.jpg
Pic 1 is at 3 years old (the day I brought him home), and Pic 2 is a few months ago, at 6.5 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

He looks great. You did a good job with him.