Tips & tricks for switching a ball python to out-of-enclosure feeding

Wanting to switch my ~28" to feeding outside his enclosure, as he's starting to react more predatorily when I open his enclosure for handling (pet, I'm not a breeder). I put him into his old tank which has glass around the edges partially obscured, but not entirely.. and had paper towels in the bottom so he doesn't get substrate in his mouth (he's had a couple of unpleasant times when he looked REALLY uncomfortable dealing with substrate in his mouth after eating).

That said, I think he felt entirely too vulnerable to have any interest in the food. Put him in the tank, presented the mouse.. ignored it completely. Moved it around, reheated it.. nothing worked. Ended up just putting him back in the enclosure and plan to try to feed him there in a few mins.

All this said, what can I do to make this transition more successful? I've had these thoughts, but would like to get your feedback:
* Use substrate from his enclosure.
* Put him in there early to allow acclimation.
* Give him a hide in the tank.
* Completely cover the tank's glass.

We don't usually suggest feeding in a different enclosure. Moving a snake while in feeding mode increases your chances of getting bit especially since you were just dealing with its food. Moving them also causes stress which like in your case makes them not eat. Also once you get a some what large collection it becomes very difficult to feed them all in different enclosures. I have 8 and that would be a nightmare. Imagine how some on here would feed with their truly large collections.

As for the substrate. If the prey is dry the amount of substrate ingested should be minimal.

I also would not change what works. If it eats well in its enclosure there is no reason to mess with success.

So, given that it's a pet (and the only one I plan to have) that I like to handle rather frequently.. you don't see long term concerns surrounding him associating his enclosure with food, e.g., my hand?

I would just feed him in his regular enclosure and figure out why he acts like he does when you reach him.

Are you feeding him enough?

I have 8 including a gtp and a almost six foot blood and I have never had a problem. I touch/handle them regularly but not at all on a feeding day. I have never been tagged while feeding.

You just need to move steady and confidently when picking up and handling your snake. It will come to know you and should settle down fine.

Even if you were to get tagged it doesn't hurt and is nothing to be scared of. I have been tagged by my bloods when they were younger and my gtp when he was new to me (pics in profile). Sure they bleed a bit but its honestly not bad. My bulldog gets me much worse when we play.

Sometimes when I open one of my snakes enclosures they'll be in food mode. A gentle tap on the head with the feeding tongs will snap them out of it and then I can pick them up no problem.

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I feed all my snakes in their enclosures and have had 0 food response bites.

Besides it's flawed logic to think that feeding inside the enclosure will increase your chances of getting bitten.

The same can be said for a seperate feeding container. Your snake will associate being taken out with feeding time, so if you take it out just to handle wouldn't it be in feeding mode?

It makes no difference. Snakes don't go in or out of feeding mode. It just knows what food is via smell/heat/sight.

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

Sometimes when I open one of my snakes enclosures they'll be in food mode. A gentle tap on the head with the feeding tongs will snap them out of it and then I can pick them up no problem.

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Try not to use feeding tongs for anything but feeding time.
A small snake hook works as does just opening and waiting a second to let them realise there is no prey present.
To the OP, I know some people with a number of snakes that do feeding tub routines. While I have picked up a lot of useful info from these people this is one item that in practice I stopped entirely. It was just too much of a pain for me and the snakes.

Tips - take snake out, place in thing, feed. Don't be scured when handling.

Feed in his home.
I've feed outside for a few months and theres no gain of it at all.



Miko

Reptiles actually do go into a feeding mode.
Look it up or watch Steve Erwin run his butt off from some Komodo Dragons.

I suspect he may be getting more agressive out of hunger. You said he's ~28 inches, but in a subsequent post that you offered him a mouse. It may be time to either start offering two mice, or try to switch to rats.

Definitely don't fix what's not broken... if he is snappy, he may still be hungry... what size is he and what size is his prey?
I feed all 4 of mine in their enclosure, zero incidents. If he's aggressive it's not because of feeding in his enclosure, check your husbandry, double check your husbandry. If all is Ok there, consider moving to a slightly bigger prey size.

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This is the thread I posted a while ago about "cage aggression" and feeding

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ggressive-quot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Punkymom

Sometimes when I open one of my snakes enclosures they'll be in food mode. A gentle tap on the head with the feeding tongs will snap them out of it and then I can pick them up no problem.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

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This.
Some people mistake aggression for a good feeding response. My snakes, all of them, look "aggressive" when you open their tub, but they just LOVE to eat. When I tap them down they instantly go into sweetheart mode.

I change the water almost every day. Now when I open the tubs, my snakes just sit there looking thirsty with their bathing suits on.

I have 11 (soon to be 12). All get fed in their enclosures. No issues.

My friend has 42. He feeds in the enclosure. No cage aggression.

I personally think the snakes exhibiting cage aggression are either underfed, or stressed for some other reason. Feeding them in their enclosure is not the reason.

I think this sounds like it's time to up the prey size! All of mine are pets at the moment, they're all youngsters and they get fed in their enclosures. I haven't managed to get bitten yet and I feel like I have to entice them into feeding mode anyway! (Lazy snakes staying in their hides until their food is zombie danced in front of them!)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. For now I think I will continue to feed him in his enclosure, but start feeding him 2 mice (at least until I'm out of mice). I've double fed him in the past when he got bigger, so I don't think it will be an issue.

He ultimately did eat in his enclosure last night after being left alone with the f/t mouse. Will provide a second f/t mouse this evening.. and will plan to start feeding him 2 at the same time starting next week, which has worked well in the past.

As a follow up to some of the responses I hadn't seen yet:
* I think the husbandry is there - he's in a Animal Plastics T8 with a Pro-Heat RHP and Herpstat shows all the temps correct, and my humidity gauge is spot on.
* He does seem awfully big to just be having one mouse a week, but he recently already had a major food increase, so I guess he's just growing fast!
* Never knew about the head tap thing.. but he's never struck at me. He's hissed a couple of times (when I've startled him, I think), but even then once he realizes it's just me, I can usually pick him up with no issue. Just wanting to make sure it stays that way!

Keep feeding in the enclosure and keep up regular handling. I really doubt youll have any problems. Watch your snake and learn its body language. Just because it hisses doesn't mean it will bite. I usually just make sure not to have my hand approaching them from in front of the head, I reach around and touch them mid body somewhere and then just gently scoop them out. I have several big girls that will hiss when I first touch them but they calm right down after that. And I don't handle at all on feeding day.

Mine only go into feeding mode when they actually smell the food... so they know something's around to kill and eat. I've never seen them go into "feeding mode" just by opening the door to their enclosure. That's what I meant.

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Originally Posted by Darkbird

And I don't handle at all on feeding day.

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Seconded! I leave mine well alone on feeding day too.

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Originally Posted by Raven01

Try not to use feeding tongs for anything but feeding time.

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I guess you can use whatever you want. I've used a towel and newspaper before. My snakes do not associate the feeding tongs with feeding time. I have 7 snakes that I've been doing this way for 4 years and I've never had a problem. You could also say, "try not to open the cage unless it's feeding time." I want my snakes to associate the rat I offer them with feeding time. It works quite well.

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Originally Posted by runeasgar

As a follow up to some of the responses I hadn't seen yet:
* I think the husbandry is there - he's in a Animal Plastics T8 with a Pro-Heat RHP and Herpstat shows all the temps correct, and my humidity gauge is spot on.
* He does seem awfully big to just be having one mouse a week, but he recently already had a major food increase, so I guess he's just growing fast!
* Never knew about the head tap thing.. but he's never struck at me. He's hissed a couple of times (when I've startled him, I think), but even then once he realizes it's just me, I can usually pick him up with no issue. Just wanting to make sure it stays that way!

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T8 may be slightly big, but if he's been in there a while and has historically eaten well for you I doubt that's an issue. I have one male who is a die-hard mouser, actually not too much bigger than yours in length (he's around 30 inches long, 1,000g) and he usually does 4-5 f/t mice a week. I just leave them all in his tub in a little pile and he does the rest (zombie dance scares him). Sometimes the hissing thing isn't aggression (although it's hard to judge whiteout actually seeing it), sometimes it can mean 'I'm scared and trying to look smaller by breathing out.' It's good that you're keeping track of these changes though, keep us updated on how he changes with more food.