I need some help with my pied BP

I am having some difficulties with my pied ball python feeding. I got him a year ago. He is currently in a 20g aquarium with hides, water, everything he needs. I hate the entire room along with supplemental heating pads. I have tried everything to get him to eat frozen thawed for a year now and all he will eat is live. I tried breeding my own rats but I found it to be a very unsatisfying experience (plus my mom outlawed after a while because she thought it was too gross). The only pet store in my area in 30 minutes away and only carries live adult mice or pinky mice, small, medium and large rats. Nothing the right size. There is no where else I can obtain rodents from except frozen and I am no longer to breed rats/mice. My other 4 snakes are on frozen thawed no problem. Should I re home my pied or trade it for one that eats frozen? Please help, all advice appreciated.

If you feel rehoming is best then it would be best. Some snakes just will not take f/t. If you've had him for a year how can you say they don't have the right size in live??? What size are you currently feeding him? When was the last time he ate?

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If he truly will not eat anything but live and you are unable to feed him live, you will have to trade him or sell him.

You've tried all the different methods of feeding frozen? Zombie dances, blow drying, getting him into feed mode with a little mouse hopper, just leaving the FT rodent in front of his hide overnight, and all the others?

I have been feeding him mouse hoppers every eight days.

Some balls just will not eat f/t. I would continue with live and keep trying f/t. Try the frozen first. It might not br warm enough for him. Try some of the suggestions from other post hair dryer, putting it umder a heat lamp, just in general warming it more. Also he might just want privacy to eat it. The first time I tried it my girl "played" with it as I call it. She did finally eat it. If he still won't eat frozen and you don't want to keep him I love the pied look lol. I want a pied so bad I can taste it. I need to go get a rat today for my girl.

Ya. I have tried all of those methods except the feed mode one, I will have to try that. He's eaten frozen a couple times, but on the past 8 months has refused it.

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Originally Posted by ToriTheBallPython

Ya. I have tried all of those methods except the feed mode one, I will have to try that.

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You can also try to scent the frozen with the mouse first. This may help the transition.

Scent the FT rodent with the mouse (just keep them in a little container together for a while...just enough for the mouse scent to rub off on the FT rat a bit).
Feed hopper mouse.
Try feeding the mouse scented FT rodent shortly after the mouse is down the hatch.

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Originally Posted by ToriTheBallPython

I have been feeding him mouse hoppers every eight days.

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You've had him a year and you are feeding him hoppers??? He should be on small rats

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If you want to rehome him send him to me. I can get live in any size. But like was said he might never really take to frozen. I have no fear of feeding live as long as I supervise.

Maybe I am a bit harder with my snakes than some, but I have been able to get every ball python I have ever owned to take f/t. Some were a bit more challenging than others, but they all switched. Have you tried practicing tough love with him? I had some that fought me and rarely ate because I would only give them live after a few weeks of refusing f/t. One of my snakes I was told when I got her would only eat live rats or live ASF but she eats f/t with no problem for me now.

How are you thawing your feeders? Mine sit in the reptile room all day while I am work thawing and then at about 7-8pm I get a bucket of super hot water, dump them in and then I don't even dry them. My snakes are right there at the edge of the tub waiting for me to open it so they can grab their rats. No zombie dance required. One of my snakes won't take the f/t from the tongs but I leave it in her tub and then leave the room once everyone has their rat and she eats it. Have you tried leaving it in over night?

I used to have him on rat fuzzies/pups until the store no longer stocked them.

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Originally Posted by Kinra

Maybe I am a bit harder with my snakes than some, but I have been able to get every ball python I have ever owned to take f/t. Some were a bit more challenging than others, but they all switched. Have you tried practicing tough love with him? I had some that fought me and rarely ate because I would only give them live after a few weeks of refusing f/t. One of my snakes I was told when I got her would only eat live rats or live ASF but she eats f/t with no problem for me now.

How are you thawing your feeders? Mine sit in the reptile room all day while I am work thawing and then at about 7-8pm I get a bucket of super hot water, dump them in and then I don't even dry them. My snakes are right there at the edge of the tub waiting for me to open it so they can grab their rats. No zombie dance required. One of my snakes won't take the f/t from the tongs but I leave it in her tub and then leave the room once everyone has their rat and she eats it. Have you tried leaving it in over night?

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Thank you for your advice. I am going to try your method of thawing rodents tomorrow and see if my pied eats. It's been 8-10 days since he has had a meal and he is acting pretty hungry, so hopefully he takes it.

My word, at a year old he should be eating much larger prey. Adult mice at the very least, or a similar sized rat. His prey is far too small, which undoubtedly means he is underfed and very small himself. Don't change prey size dramatically, but please try and get him eating larger meals.

My seldom fail method of feeding F/T, until my collection got too large and made raising my own food the logical choice for me, was this:

Thaw the selected prey item at room temperature for several hours. It should feel soft and limber with no hard spots inside. Dunk it in hot tap water, the hottest your sink will provide. Bring the prey, still submersed in water, into the room where your snake is. Open the enclosure and remove the hide or hides, then close it. Remove the prey from the water and towel it dry with an old rag. Lay the damp rag down on a flat surface and lay the now damp prey on the rag. Get your hairdryer ready, and start blow-drying the prey, aiming the warm, rodent scented breezes towards the enclosure. Pick the prey up and make sure it is warm and dry and fluffy all over. Now, get your feeding tongs and grip the prey by the scruff just above the shoulders. Aim the hairdryer at the head, and give it 15 or 20 seconds to get the head super hot. Quickly switch off the hairdryer, set it down, open the enclosure with your free hand, and offer the prey. Try not to drop it on the snakes head, unless by now he's actively hunting for it and tries to snatch it out of your hand. If he's interested but still suspicious, offer it in the corner nearest him without being on top of him. Give him a few seconds, if he doesn't strike, GENTLY wiggle the prey just above the bedding. You want to entice him, not scare him. If he still doesn't take the bait, drop the prey where it is, close the enclosure and walk away. Darken the room if you can. Leave him alone for at least 30 minutes. I mean stay out of the room completely. Then it's okay to check if he's decided he wants it. If he hasn't touched it, you can try heating the head one more time and offering it again, with a little more wiggle than before.

Some snakes are simply dead set on not eating F/T, I have a few like that. If it is really an issue to get him food in the proper size each week, and he steadfastly refuses f/t, it may be time to let him go and find one who readily accepts f/t.

Gale

He only weighs about 120 grams right now (he is thin, but not weak), so I don't see how he could handle a small rat.

120g for a year old BP does seem quite low, my 4 month (give or take) is 288g and my cb12 boy is 613g. I wouldn't personally remove the hides (no offence to angllady2) I did that once and instead of a feeding response I got a defensive strike and no interest in the food. My pastel is a fussy eater but had managed to put on some weight since I've had her (she was 200g on the 5th October).

The heating techniques sound spot on though, make the rat hot, sometimes I think I don't make them hot enough! You could place her in a smaller tub inside her enclosure with the prey? That was suggested to me when my BP hadn't eaten in a few weeks, I didn't try it myself as she luckily decided to eat just as I was about to try that. Leaving well alone and darkening the room is also a good idea. I have also found that feeding between 10 and midnight gets the better results than trying to feed during the day. I leave my pastel well alone whether she strikes or I have to leave it in the enclosure. I have had to remove the rat 3 times out of the 6 but have managed to get her to eat the other three by zombie dancing, her striking from inside her hide and leaving the rat in the door to her hide that she was in with the head just inside the enclosure, turning the lights out and leaving her until the morning.

I haven't had the issue of switching live to F/T so unfortunately I can only give advice on getting a fussy eater to eat. Maybe it can be transferable? I hope I am giving some sort of helpful advice!


EDIT: at 120g a small rat would be too big, slowly try to increase the feed when you can get your BP eating, very slowly as their weight increases! Good luck

120 grams at a year old?

Ok, he's not a little underfed and small, he's WAY underfed and ridiculously small. Most baby ball pythons hit 120 grams by 2 or 3 months of age. He should be easily 600-800 grams or more. Which is to say, he's at least 6 to 8 times smaller than he should be, and you'll be lucky if he isn't stunted for life.

Being so much too small, then I'd stick to hopper or just over hopper size mice, and bump him up to a 5 day schedule. If he's eating regularly, he'll put on the size he should have already fairly quickly. If you can't get him on the size prey he needs when he needs it, then please don't keep him. He needs someone to feed him the correct prey with the correct frequency now, or he may never catch up. Once he puts on some weight, then you can slowly get his prey size and himself up where they should be.

Gale

Agreed, I would go to a 4-5 day and increase him to an adult mouse within a few feedings.
My smallest hatchling came to me 69 grams on Oct 18th, he weighed in at 124 grams two days ago. He's been on hoppers every 5 days. You need to get him fed properly or as you said sell or trade him.

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I found if you skip a feeding then offer a f/t they should take it if hungry. I had little trouble getting them to take f/t but I can get live were my wife works so it no biggie.

I would not skip any meals with this snake

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

I would not skip any meals with this snake

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Knowing the weight and the age of the snake now, I agree with this.

Forget the FT. This snake needs to start getting regular meals it will actually eat. If it won't eat FT, that means getting it some live food.

I agree with all the above, feed what the snake will eat and build size. More often feeding does sound like an absolute must! Get some good weight behind you BP and when they have gotten to a better weight you can try F/T again if you'd like to. Some snakes just will not take to F/T.