Hoggie question - have you been bitten?

My husband and I are talking about getting a larger enclosure for our bp in a few months and getting a smaller snake to keep in Millie's old house. We're going back and forth between a sand boa and a hognose. The only thing making us hesitate on the hoggie is the possibility of our son getting a dose of (very mild) venom. I recently read that captive bred hoggies DON'T have venom, because they don't manufacture it themselves, but rather somehow manage to recycle the poison that the toads they eat in the wild excrete. Since they eat mice in captivity, there's supposedly no venom.

I'm hoping someone here who HAS been bitten by a cb hoggie can confirm this. Can anyone who has been bitten let me know if there was any swelling or anything else that would make it any different from being bit by a bp? Other than size, of course!

Hognose strike with a closed mouth, it is more of a pecking action. Mine will peck me if I let it but it has never tried to chew on me.

There is a youtube video of a guy that allowed his hognose to actually chew on him to see the effects. They are rear fangs and actually require some work to use them. Thats what I see feeding mine live, she still refuses f/t.

Google hognose bites to see pics. It can cause swelling, pain, nausea. With any snake you can get bit but my hoggy has never struck while being held. She only does it when she is pissy and im working in her tank. Without messing with her tank I can just pick her up without drama.

Even if a hoggies chews long enough to deliver venom. The effects for most people is negligible. The worst case I've ever seen involved some swelling.
These snakes tend to bluff then play dead and create a nasty smell before biting.
I assume you would notice this before your child could get a real bite which he would most likely not even react to.

My girl was hissing and feinting up a storm last night. She "got me" with a couple close-mouthed taps. I have 3 hogs and have never been bitten. If your son treats them with respect (as he should all snakes!), I don't forsee any problems. Mine tend to be very gentle, unless it's feeding time.

I've taken a nice bite from one of my big girls who was in a feeding rage when I opened the tub. She jumped out and tagged my hand and locked on chewing. Back fangs pierced my skin and it bleed pretty alright. I took a benadryl as a precaution, but didn't really sweat about it . . . no swelling, no nausia, no pain other than the bite itself. No hurt feelings or mixed emotions ;-)

Side note: My girlfriend was tagged hard by a rear fanged venomous Leptophius (Parrot snake) in Panama this past september. It bled a decent amount, but even with it being a wild snake, with more dangerous venom than hognose contain, it was still a no reaction bite, but loads of blood as it chewed for a good 10 - 15 seconds.

Unless there is a history of reactions to bee stings, or alergy prone in general, it would be a 0 threat level. As others stated, bites from hoggies are a rare occassion! They usually strike mouth closed. My bite came from feeding initiation. You can see how my hognose acted when they were younger! I'll upload an updated video with my 375+ gram female :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ogzP1s1IXs

After a little searching I found this thread on another forum, which was very helpful.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...nose-bite.html

My son absolutely adores our bp and is very gentle with her, but has absolutely no fear of her. It's a good thing she's so mellow, because he's pretty constantly in her face. Let's just say she's not exactly head shy anymore.

If you check my sig, you'll see from my blog that my son is extremely allergy prone. If anyone were likely to react to a bite it would be him. We'll probably have to skip the hoggy for a sand boa. Too bad, since they are adorable little spuds!

Thanks everyone for the help! We'll probably get the new baby in January or February, so I'll post pics then.

Minw will just charge me with all 23 grams of force he has when he is pissy, never tried to bite.

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Originally Posted by Libby

After a little searching I found this thread on another forum, which was very helpful.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...nose-bite.html

My son absolutely adores our bp and is very gentle with her, but has absolutely no fear of her. It's a good thing she's so mellow, because he's pretty constantly in her face. Let's just say she's not exactly head shy anymore.

If you check my sig, you'll see from my blog that my son is extremely allergy prone. If anyone were likely to react to a bite it would be him. We'll probably have to skip the hoggy for a sand boa. Too bad, since they are adorable little spuds!

Thanks everyone for the help! We'll probably get the new baby in January or February, so I'll post pics then.

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Allergic reactions to colubrid venom are virtually non-existant. Reactions to snake venom occur after being exposed via inhalation to powdered resideual venom, not due to one bite. I challenge anyone on this forum to come up with one documented case of serious systemic allergic reactions to colubrid venom - not the swelling and edema that is an actual consequence of an envenomation - but an actual allergic reaction.

Regardless of popular opinion, the number of people world wide who experience spontaneous and immediate systemic reaction to hymenoptera stings is estimated to be between 1 and 6% and this number has no bearing whatsoever on susceptibility to a spontaneous reaction from a colubrid bite.

Hognose snakes produce venom regardless of what they eat. They cannot magically synthesize alkaloids from toads into venom. Your son will be fine on the extremely off chance that he's nipped.

They only bite with closed mouth, if it is a defensive bite, it is more like a bird pecking you. Always makes me laugh:D

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BTW, plz thank if it was helpful;);):)

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Originally Posted by dgring

They only bite with closed mouth, if it is a defensive bite, it is more like a bird pecking you. Always makes me laugh:D

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BTW, plz thank if it was helpful;);):)

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They STRIKE with a closed mouth. You can't bite with a closed mouth.

Why are you asking for Thanks? Especially when you just restate what has been said. You'll get your thanks in time no need to beg for it.

I have a child extremely allergic to insect bites. If he gets bt by one ant on his big toe his whole foot swells up.

He was 5 when we got our hognose.

We've had closed-mouth strikes for when my kids get too lazy and clean the enclosure without taking out the hoggie... it doesn't even startle them anymore. But, we've never had any bites. But then, my kids are very knowledgeable about their pets' moods.

So what I'm understanding is that:

1. Hognose bites are unlikely.
2. Diet has absolutely no bearing on toxicity. (Thanks, Skiploader.)
3. An allergic reaction is extremely unlikely, but localized pain and swelling may occur.

Unfortunately, my poor kid drew a reverse lottery ticket for anaphylaxis, so I'm not willing to take any unnecessary risks. Even though colubrid venom isn't linked to any other specific allergy, like peanuts are linked to other legumes such as soy or like latex is to some fruits, my son is at a much higher risk than the general population. Someone who has any of the allergic diseases (asthma, eczema, environmental allergies, food allergies, etc.) is statistically far more likely to have one of the others.

My son's immune system already misidentifies proteins from certain foods as toxins. I'd rather not find out how his body would react if an actual venom, regardless of how mild, were introduced to it.

I completely understand your paranoia as a parent, you can never be too careful. Mostly for anyone else reading this, and if you're still considering, I would just like to add: I personally am very allergic to mosquito bites. They seriously swell up to the size of a golf ball. My hoggie, on the other hand, has given me quite a few bites. She's a temperamental thing compared to my male one. When she was a hatchling she would actually naw on my finger like a teething puppy or something. When she was small, her mouth couldn't even fit around the tip of my finger to bite for five minutes of trying to unhinge her jaw around it, and by then I had pulled away. As a baby, when they are most prone to biting, they are so small bites and venom injecting are nearly painless and impossible. The few times she got me as an adult (other than false strikes) it wasn't even as bad as a mosquito bite on a normal person, nevermind me. It felt like a red bruise.
If you did want a hoggie, I would recommend getting a fully grown male; they should be tamer, more used to people, you will likely be helping someone who needs to rehome a pet they can't keep any more, and I find males are smaller and less aggressive. I was told my female was a male and first suspected otherwise mostly because of her attitude. I do love me my hoggies.

On the other hand, if I were in your position, I would honestly getting a cute little sausage of a sand boa (I say that with the utmost affection). I don't have as much contact with them as I have my hogs, mostly only volunteering at a reptile oriented pet store, but the males stay pretty small, and they seem like shy yet laid back snakes. The sand would probably drive me nuts personally, but I hear it really isn't that hard to clean. Another consideration is that you could probably get morph sand boa for less than a normal hoggie. Most of the hogs I ever see are albino and can be from $300-400. Not sure about normals. I've seen pretty sand boa morphs for as low as $150

Never been bitten, hognoses only bite when they feel very threatened; they usually pretend to be dead before they'll bite. The closest i've been to getting bitten was when I woke my hognose up. He was hissing first, but I decided to keep disturbing him, and only then did he strike - with his mouth closed. So there's a very very slim chance of getting bitten as long as you pay attention to the warning signs! They're great snakes, really. I'd say go for it! :)

Although I do not remember where it was I saw it, I have seen pictures taken by someone who was bitten by a hognose and claimed to be allergic to it. He said he had done this in the name of showing people exactly what would happen in this situation, since there is quite a debate about it in many snake related forums apparently. His finger swelled up pretty good within the first 3 hours of the bite { which he claimed was very difficult to get the hog to take a sufficient bite to actually get envenomated } Within 24 hours his bitten finger had turned black and blue, and he claimed it was mildly painful but more itched than anything. After 48 hours the colors were fading and the swelling had gone down noticeably. Within 60 hours, the colors had faded to almost un-noticable, rather like a bruise slowly fades as it heals. The swelling had completely gone, and except for the bruising the only thing left were a few tiny marks from the teeth. By 72 hours, it was liked nothing had happened.

Now, as a paranoid mom myself, I can understand your very real fear for your son. Do I honestly think it's something you need to worry about? Not really. Since hognoses are rear fanged, your son would have to really stick his finger into the hoggies mouth pretty darn far to get a bite with venom, and most kids would know enough not to let that happen. A casual bite, even an open mouth casual bite from a hoggie wouldn't result in anything more than a nearly microscopic pinprick. You'd just about have to open the mouth and shove your finger in in order to get a venom bite. That being said, I adore my little sand boa. Their faces aren't quite as cute as a hoggie, but they are just adorable. They look remarkably like a giant worm with tiny little eyes and a perpetual smile. The males stay very small, only about 18 inches or so. Females can reach about 30 inches if I remember correctly. And despite the name, sand is not recommended for sand boas. I keep mine on tiny little aspen chips and he's very happy. They also come in amazing morphs.

Gale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Libby

After a little searching I found this thread on another forum, which was very helpful.

http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...nose-bite.html

My son absolutely adores our bp and is very gentle with her, but has absolutely no fear of her. It's a good thing she's so mellow, because he's pretty constantly in her face. Let's just say she's not exactly head shy anymore.

If you check my sig, you'll see from my blog that my son is extremely allergy prone. If anyone were likely to react to a bite it would be him. We'll probably have to skip the hoggy for a sand boa. Too bad, since they are adorable little spuds!

Thanks everyone for the help! We'll probably get the new baby in January or February, so I'll post pics then.

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Your blog is awesome ! Im a junior in college and have had a peanut allergy since i was about 3, so i know how hard it is, it takes a toll on my girlfriend who loves peanut butter haha, hopefully your son can grow out of his allergy (im waiting for the day to have a milky way again) haha. i know not really on the topic of snakes lol but i just wanted kudos to you for making it and informing people :oops:

My hognose reminds me off my wife, all bark not bite ;)


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My little western hog has bitten me. She has a wicked feeding response and sometimes will try to bite for no reason. She is the only hognose I have ever seen that will bite when not being fed. She bit me on my right hand about 3 months back. I was getting her out if her cage to hold her and the first thing she did was latch into my hand. The finger turned purple for a while and it itched a bit but it was fine. I had an Eastern hognose who died about 2 weeks ago and he would put on a tough act but would never bite.

This is a 2 months old thread incase people didnt realize

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Originally Posted by bigt0006

This is a 2 months old thread incase people didnt realize

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Actually I didn't realize, but we just got an 8 month old green tree hognose today from a friend who is moving and couldn't take the little guy with him. He's a very laid back snake.