BP showing signs of aggression. Advice?

So, I feel like I am always posting about my pastel BP!

Any time I get anywhere near her viv, even a couple of foot away when I am cleaning etc she goes instantly into the strike position. Tonight was cleaning night as her tank was needing to have a good scrub and as soon as I removed her hide to take her out her neck went into the tell tale s shape.

As it's not my first experience of her striking I had a trusty pair of gloves on stand by and when she followed my hand with her head when I tried picking her up I stuck them on. She struck and hit the glove twice followed by any amount of hissing. She will twist herself into a position where I cannot get behind her to get her no matter what angle I go at.

When I first got her about a month or so ago she wasn't anywhere near as aggressive as this and I would appreciate any tips you guys may have! (P.S she was fed 48 hours ago so I doubt she simply thought I may be food)

How big is she and what did you feed her?

She is around 200g and a small weaner rat (f/t)

The weaned rats I get are around 36 to 46g. I'm guessing that's about the same for you? Or are they smaller?

What are the temps and humidity levels? She has enough places to hide and feel secure?

Temps and humidity are spot on. Two hides, one at hot one at cold. I haven't been handling her much as she hasn't been eating consistently (2 feeds out of 5 so far) so I basically leave her alone apart from water changes and cleaning.

I'm not too sure on the weight of the rats, I'll quickly pop one on my scales to check! The rat I have (frozen so may alter weight(?) is 51g

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

So, I feel like I am always posting about my pastel BP!

Any time I get anywhere near her viv, even a couple of foot away when I am cleaning etc she goes instantly into the strike position. Tonight was cleaning night as her tank was needing to have a good scrub and as soon as I removed her hide to take her out her neck went into the tell tale s shape.

As it's not my first experience of her striking I had a trusty pair of gloves on stand by and when she followed my hand with her head when I tried picking her up I stuck them on. She struck and hit the glove twice followed by any amount of hissing. She will twist herself into a position where I cannot get behind her to get her no matter what angle I go at.

When I first got her about a month or so ago she wasn't anywhere near as aggressive as this and I would appreciate any tips you guys may have! (P.S she was fed 48 hours ago so I doubt she simply thought I may be food)

---

It sounds like you may benefit from trying a basic desensitization process coupled with making her feel a lot more secure. First things, it's obviously she does not want to see out of the cage so either put some bushy plants at the fore front of the cage or just cover most of the glass with construction paper or card board. After a week of being alone you can start to pet her gently in the cage about three times a week for two weeks, next you will remove her from the cage for about 10 minutes 2-3 days a week for three weeks, after that you will know her progress well enough to go on with a pace best suited for her. Hope that helps.

The only problem with attempted petting in the viv is I can't physically get close to her without a well placed strike. I will attempt to cover over the glass doors though, it may help! I do really appreciate your input on this matter! :)

She has one retained eye cap which could not come off for love nor money so I have been advised that this may be a problem although the aggression did start a couple of weeks after this. Also she has had mites, I am still treating in case there are some stragglers which didn't come off after the first snake and enclosure treatment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

Temps and humidity are spot on. Two hides, one at hot one at cold. I haven't been handling her much as she hasn't been eating consistently (2 feeds out of 5 so far) so I basically leave her alone apart from water changes and cleaning.

I'm not too sure on the weight of the rats, I'll quickly pop one on my scales to check! The rat I have (frozen so may alter weight(?) is 51g

---

51g is pretty big for a 200g snake. I think for younger, growing snakes the recommended range is 10% to 15% of bodyweight.

If she hasn't been eating consistently, she may be hungry. Try a smaller rat...around 20g if you have one.

EDIT: Although if she just ate a large one like that 2 days ago, she's probably not hungry. Hmmm...

If she's truly not hungry she may just be one of the pissy ones. Out of our 20 I have one female that would just as soon nail you as breathe. I had to clean her tub last night as she'd thrashed it, which wasn't a problem as I can pull the tub completely out of the rack and get behind her to pick her up. Even once in-hand she will strike at your other hand or any movement, so my husband held her while I cleaned out her tub, replaced her water, cleaned her 2 hides, etc. Temps and humidity are fine, she's in a 9-level 41-qt rack and it's obvious she wants to be in it as she races to the back as soon as you return her to her home. She has had the same attitude in both rack/tub and tank setups.

We've tried handling her for a few minutes daily except for feeding/digesting days, we've tried limiting handling to when her tub needed cleaning (she got worse), the racks are in a quiet upstairs spare bedroom with no foot traffic, she eats weekly unless in shed, etc. She's just not into being handled.

Unfortunately I only have the 50g and a 66g at the moment (the 66g is for my larger BP)

The one I fed 2 days ago may have been less in weight, they are size appropriate for her (Just slightly larger than her body and I mean very slightly, they barely leave a bump in her) I don't tend to weigh the rats, I simply ask for the size I need when I go in to buy them.

I wouldn't try petting her in the viv... Just asking for trouble IMO. I had/have an extremely feisty girl I've been dealing with for the past 8 months or so. You definitely want to get it under control before she gets too much weight on her. What worked for me was basically giving her about 5% open floor space, everything else is filled with clutter. I have a bushy plant in the front (she was striking the front of her tub HARD every time I walked by), along with her water bowl and a hide smushed in there. Then I have two more hides at the back, and another in the middle. Any free space left is packed with fake plants. I keep her entire tub covered with a black pillow case. I would start with handling her every day for a few minutes. She'll eventually start to settle down and realize you're not trying to kill her. This has worked wonders for me. Now I only get the occasional hiss when I pull the hide off of her.

Here's a cool vid on dealing with aggressive hatchlings :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7DQssbM0uk

Yeah, when I first got my pastel she keep striking at the front of the viv, hard about 6-8 times. She calmed down after that and then started up again. I was trying to focus on getting her feeding over taming her down but if I can't get her out for cleaning there may be a problem I may invest in some thin leather gloves and try to handle her until she realises I'm not scared of her and she has no need to be scared of me.

I think cluttering up her viv more would be very beneficial also. I was tempted to downgrade her to a tub but I can't afford another heat mat and mat stat right now and I can't attach her to the mat stat I have at the moment as my boy is still in quarantine away from her.

In the future, you might want to put tinfoil over the sticky section of the heat mat. Then just affix it to the tub, tank, etc with aluminum tape and voila! You have a removable, reusable UTH. Makes your life a toooon easier to just pop it off and move it when you upgrade enclosures.

I'd definitely use gloves if you're fearful of her. I'll admit, I used them when I first started working with my gal. Kind of embarrassing that I was a bit scared of an itty bitty snake. But it will make you much more confident when handling your snake, and that will go a long way toward helping you settle her down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MootWorm

In the future, you might want to put tinfoil over the sticky section of the heat mat. Then just affix it to the tub, tank, etc with aluminum tape and voila! You have a removable, reusable UTH. Makes your life a toooon easier to just pop it off and move it when you upgrade enclosures.

---

My problem is not having another tub, nor another heat mat or separate mat stat. My girl has a ceramic in her viv and a pulse proportional thermostat whereas my boy, who is in a different room for quarantine purposes, has a heat mat and mat stat thermostat as he is housed in a tub (which I much prefer to a viv, I find it a lot easier for handling a you have more angles you can go in from). Not sure if I have maybe read your point wrong or didn't make myself clear enough.

I think I will definitely be wearing gloves with her. She has a powerful little strike for a little girl and although I have read that bites aren't as bad I don't plan on finding out any time soon :p I will say I am nervous about being bitten but I am more worried that I couldn't stop myself pulling back and that I would cause her harm! I think handling her and taming may be the only way forward until she realises that hissing and striking won't just make me go away unless it's meal time :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

My problem is not having another tub, nor another heat mat or separate mat stat. My girl has a ceramic in her viv and a pulse proportional thermostat whereas my boy, who is in a different room for quarantine purposes, has a heat mat and mat stat thermostat as he is housed in a tub (which I much prefer to a viv, I find it a lot easier for handling a you have more angles you can go in from). Not sure if I have maybe read your point wrong or didn't make myself clear enough.

I think I will definitely be wearing gloves with her. She has a powerful little strike for a little girl and although I have read that bites aren't as bad I don't plan on finding out any time soon :p I will say I am nervous about being bitten but I am more worried that I couldn't stop myself pulling back and that I would cause her harm! I think handling her and taming may be the only way forward until she realises that hissing and striking won't just make me go away unless it's meal time :)

---

Ahh yes, I must have misread. I thought the issue was that you couldn't get another heat mat to put on a tub. And no, bites aren't all that painful. I've been bitten many times over by my girl lol. The trick for me was moving smoothly and at a moderate pace when reaching in for her. The gloves helped me stop the hesitant and jerky movements, which seemed to put her on edge (understandably so). Best of luck when taming her down!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

My problem is not having another tub, nor another heat mat or separate mat stat. My girl has a ceramic in her viv and a pulse proportional thermostat whereas my boy, who is in a different room for quarantine purposes, has a heat mat and mat stat thermostat as he is housed in a tub (which I much prefer to a viv, I find it a lot easier for handling a you have more angles you can go in from). Not sure if I have maybe read your point wrong or didn't make myself clear enough.

I think I will definitely be wearing gloves with her. She has a powerful little strike for a little girl and although I have read that bites aren't as bad I don't plan on finding out any time soon :p I will say I am nervous about being bitten but I am more worried that I couldn't stop myself pulling back and that I would cause her harm! I think handling her and taming may be the only way forward until she realises that hissing and striking won't just make me go away unless it's meal time :)

---

I would leave the gloves off. At 200g she's not going to hurt you. You get a better feel for her with your bare hand and she gets used to your hand (and all it's associated heat and scents) reaching in and picking her up.

You may not even realize she bit you unless you're looking directly at her when she does it. There's no guarantee she's going to bite you anyways. It's huff and puff designed to scare you. One of my males did that when I first got him. 700g and he would flatten out and hiss like some sort of monster. The first time, I almost closed the tub...but I didn't want to set the precedent of closing up the tub and leaving him alone when he hissed at me. So I took a deep breath, and reached in fully aware I was going to have python teeth sinking into my hand. It was coming...I knew it was coming...here it comes...

Nothing. Picked him up, he quieted down.

If you're really worried, distract her with an empty paper towel tube while you pick her up.

She struck and bit twice tonight when I was trying to get her out for a clean. Luckily she bit the hand the glove was on. I did pick her up with an ungloved hand as the gloves I had were too thick for me to be able to function in them (welder's gloves I had lying around)

Keep in mind that you are a big scary creature and its just a tiny baby! With any luck your BP will grow out of its aggression. I have a cage aggressive adult who I bought from a local pet store, the poor thing was so traumatized you couldn't even walk into the room without getting hissed or snapped at. I found that blacking out of the sides of the terrarium helped a lot as far as stressing it out goes, I also found that moving her into a rack instead of a tank worked wonders for helping with aggression ( It might be because the terrarium she was in was fairly tall and the bins in my rack are low). I suggest trying to handle your baby on a regular basis a few days after feeding up until a day or so before feeding. Even if you're just holding it for 10-15 min with gloves, or able to get it sitting on your lap without eating you, it will help it to get used to being picked up and taken out without you being so much of a threat. Give it time, and it will take work, but like I said its just a baby and will probably grow out of it.

Yeah, her enclosure is only glass fronted and I have been trying to leave her be until she was eating steadily. I bought some leather gloves today and I am bathing her to try to see if the retained eye cap will come off. Hoping this is why she is being defensive, if not it's going to be a case of getting her to a stage of tolerance and trust with me. I'll keep persevering, I find the gloves have given me a lot more confidence with just going in and handling too so I shouldn't hesitate giving her a chance to go defensive :)

Hmmm... First off, I'm sorry :( I had an aggressive corn (not the same as a ball, but still) who struck ALL THE TIME. A method a corn breeder told me about really worked for us. I wonder if it would work for you...
Although, I don't have any experience with fiesty ball pythons, and if someone thinks this is a downright bad idea, please chime in!

This is what I was advised to do for my yearling corn snake (about half the weight of your ball python):

Take her out every day for 1-2 *hours* at a time. If she struck, I was advised to follow through with my motions anyways, and not to pull back (as natural as it is to do that). Basically to just put up with the biting and striking. Personally I got used to it, so gloves were not needed.
I was told to just sit with her. Just let her do her thing, but get her to stay with me - so no letting her go off of your body. Even just watch TV or a movie with her, but just keep her out.
I was told to only put her back once she was calm and relaxed (or stopped freaking out, if that's all she did the whole time she was out). If she went crazy, I was advised to disregard this. I don't mean ignore her or make her more upset, but just let her do her thing and try not to react to her. Even if I covered her with dark clothing or whatever to calm her down, as long as she's on me or with me somehow.

So, after 6 days of this, she was a completely changed snake! I sh*t you not. She had already been with me 3 weeks, and her temperatures were accurate and she was eating regularly (3 weeks in a row) before I tried this. I tried not touching her for a long while, and all that. Didn't seem to work. But this method did.
My corn used to strike at me CONSTANTLY, in and out of her vive. I can't even tell you how many times she tagged me. I'd say easily 10-20 times in one attempt at getting her out of her vive.
But now, she hasn't struck at me since I tried this method. She's FANTASTIC.


So... I'm not sure how others will feel about this. Maybe it's too much, or it would be too stressful for a ball python. I really don't know, so please take this with "a grain of salt".
If anyone has done something like with a BP this it might be more helpful.

I like this idea but maybe for a shorter period of time, maybe half an hour? I am going to try to handle her as she is only going to learn to tolerate me if I handle. Thank you for your advice! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naom9Anne

She struck and bit twice tonight when I was trying to get her out for a clean. Luckily she bit the hand the glove was on. I did pick her up with an ungloved hand as the gloves I had were too thick for me to be able to function in them (welder's gloves I had lying around)

---

I would not worry too much about bite marks unless you have severe anemia or nociceptor sensitivity or any other relevant medical issue. I have had bites from large boa constrictors that healed perfectly in roughly a week. If you do not wish to handle her in the cage then I can recommend hook training, which is what I use with my retics. When I am entering the cage for maintenance or handling, I brush their neck or top of their head with a snake hook before pulling them out, on feeding day all they see are the tongs and the rat. I do this 100% of the time and have seen great results...I am holding a female tiger that I acquired late last month who musked me and bit repeatedly (got me in the face once) when out of the cage. She is now very good and highly inquisitive, the average CB retic.

I have experience with a few feisty ones but for the MOST part they tend to chill out once they're older and have been handled enough times to know that you aren't there to hurt them. I have yet to be bitten by any of my adults but I've had a few bites from babies. I'm pretty confident that yours will calm down with age. My first ball Eve, would S up and strike when she was younger, but I was told to not let her scare me off and show her who's boss. DON'T hesitate when going in to pick them up! That's what tamed her down.... just reach in and pick her up without showing any fear. You can use a hand towel if you are worried about a bite to cover them and even the feisty ones tend to ball up (it also gives you a little more confidence). Just don't hesitate once you enter the cage because it gives them the chance to strike. Eventually you'll be confident enough to just use your hands. Once she's out, let her unball in your hands and make sure she's relaxed before you put her back in. Now Eve is the sweetest and most easy going of all my snakes and never shows any signs of aggression except when she smells her food! ;)

Still, I have one that is always ready to strike when you open her tub (I call it "cage aggressive" but I'm not sure if that's the right term?) and some that are just thinking it must be meal time (my pastel girl is ALWAYS looking for food when you start messing with the tubs!). I use a hook to pull them out and once they are out and figure out it's not feeding time, they're the sweetest things. Hope this helps!