F/Ts are not for me.

So I had gotten a rat last week and my girl didn't eat it. So I bonked it with the hammer, made sure it was dead and put it in the freezer. I decided today because she looked like she was going to try and take a chunk of me and I didn't want to go to town because its cold out to defrost the thing. I got a container and put warm water in it put the rat bag in and weighted it down and left it. I changed the water a couple times adding progressively warmer water till it was completely thawed and warm. I then took it to my girl. I made it dance a little and she gave me a look that said I was an idiot. I left it in there with her for a bit. I snuck a couple peaks and she was playing with it like a dog with a toy. What in the world? Jshe went and got a drink and continued playing for about an hour. Then she drug it too the darkest corner and finally started eating it. It was too much for me. I have and don't want to ever see her playing with it again. The smell when I opened the bag got me too. Is this a bad thing? I know due to the possibility of bites fts are better but it made me sick.

Nope nothing wrong with feeding live when done properly

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My F/T rats don't really have a smell, and it's certainly not a bad one. I find it hard to believe she'd play with it. Ball pythons aren't creatures that look for entertainment. They seem to be pretty content with sitting in dark tight places and staring into the blackness all day. Sounds like she was trying to get it down. Mine have issues sometimes if they don't get the rat lined up right to go down the hatch. Like a leg or something doesn't go in with the body as easily. Or they strike it on the side then sit there and slide their jaw from end to end frustrated trying to figure out which one side will allow them to swallow it.

Do live actually smell better than the f/t?
Also I'm not sure, is that a safe way of doing f/t? I'm genuinely curious, because I've thought of doing a live at one point but I don't want to get caught by my land lord with live mice/rats and have him thinking I'm keeping them as pets if she doesn't take. I dont get it, land lords fine with snakes/lizards but nothing fluffy X/

I've never fed f/t. I feed live or freshly killed. Its the one thing that I don't like about ball pythons... not feeding them just what they eat. Rats and mice are kind of gross to me sometimes. Sometimes not so gross. I kind of feel bad for the feeder now and then. Not so bad that I don't feed my snake kids. Though I've had to kill a lot of "cute" rats to feed my snakes. I don't like doing it but its part of keeping snakes as pets. I like to get it over and done with so I can only imagine having to bag it, keep changing the water, waiting for it to thaw, looking at it, then, as you described, removing it from the bag, and smelling it. I know f/t may be more practical if you have a larger collection or if you live in an area where live feeders are hard to come by but it grosses me out or makes me a little sad either way you feed. What I'm trying to say is I can relate. I don't like dealing with feeders at all but a soggy wet rat? That's nasty!

About 3 weeks ago,I changed over to basically only live..I found a spot near me that has no FT but they have every size mouse and rat you can imagine..some nought a 2 1/2 gallon tank,3 rats and 3 hoppers and I should be good for 2 weeks...I make sure I'm watching the whole time. I never leave my snakes alone with feeders.

I have only noticed a smell in my F/T when I have used my hair dryer to warm them through then they really get that rodent smell! I hope that the smell helps my BP's feeding response; that's what pushes me through it!

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Originally Posted by NYHC4LIFE8899

About 3 weeks ago,I changed over to basically only live..I found a spot near me that has no FT but they have every size mouse and rat you can imagine..some nought a 2 1/2 gallon tank,3 rats and 3 hoppers and I should be good for 2 weeks...I make sure I'm watching the whole time. I never leave my snakes alone with feeders.

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Wait... Are you keeping 3 rats and 3 hoppers in a 2.5 gallon all together???

OP, did you put the rat in the freezer immediately after you euthanized it? Or was it in an area where it was constantly thawing a bit each time you opened the freezer? The rats shouldn't stink when you thaw them. I've only had it happen a few times when I bought them from an outside source.

I'm 7 months pregnant. Every smell gets me and I have a very sensitive gag reflex. So yeah the smell got to me. Plus I've had rats as pets and they were sweethearts. This one tried to bite me and my girl wasn't hungry at the time thats why I decided to bonk it and freeze it. It was more humane than just putting it in the freezer still alive and I've heard of people doing that. I will go back to feeding live and either stunning it or fresh kill. The rat wasn't wet but when it vooded after the bonking yeah. I won't do ot again. On the playing thing. When she is picking it up and tossing it then gnawing on the head I call that playing. She did finally eat it but it grossed me out.
It went directly into the freezer. This was the one and only time I removed it and defrosted it. I guess it voided its bowels when I bonked it. 1 good hammer blow to the head and it was done.

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Originally Posted by Phantomtip

I'm 7 months pregnant. Every smell gets me and I have a very sensitive gag reflex. So yeah the smell got to me. Plus I've had rats as pets and they were sweethearts. This one tried to bite me and my girl wasn't hungry at the time thats why I decided to bonk it and freeze it. It was more humane than just putting it in the freezer still alive and I've heard of people doing that. I will go back to feeding live and either stunning it or fresh kill. The rat wasn't wet but when it vooded after the bonking yeah. I won't do ot again. On the playing thing. When she is picking it up and tossing it then gnawing on the head I call that playing. She did finally eat it but it grossed me out.
It went directly into the freezer. This was the one and only time I removed it and defrosted it. I guess it voided its bowels when I bonked it. 1 good hammer blow to the head and it was done.

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Ahh that makes sense. A sensitive nose will do it! And yes, it's definitely much more humane to euthanize prior to freezing it.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Wait... Are you keeping 3 rats and 3 hoppers in a 2.5 gallon all together???

OP, did you put the rat in the freezer immediately after you euthanized it? Or was it in an area where it was constantly thawing a bit each time you opened the freezer? The rats shouldn't stink when you thaw them. I've only had it happen a few times when I bought them from an outside source.

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Yes I am..1 of each will be gone tommorow... And I've done this before with 2 hoppers and 1 rat for 3-4 days and had no problems...I threw a little food and water in the tank....they will be ok..plus it works out well cause my ghost eats anything and black pastel only mice and I wann switch him over,so the scents will be all over the place....

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Originally Posted by NYHC4LIFE8899

Yes I am..1 of each will be gone tommorow... And I've done this before with 2 hoppers and 1 rat for 3-4 days and had no problems...I threw a little food and water in the tank....they will be ok

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I have a 1 gallon,if it's necessary I can transfer the hoppers to there. And the rats are the next size up from pups there not full grown adults.

I only feed f/t because my rat colony isn't big enough to keep up with my snake collection. Some day I'll have a rat shed so they aren't in the house and then I'll go back to feeding live only. I also hate dealing with f/t.

Snakes lack the ability to play. Literally cannot play like a dog or cat. Your snake was simply trying to eat. Please don't attribute qualities a snake is not capable of possessing simply because you didn't like what your snake was doing, which was eating the only way a snake can eat, by trying to get the rodent in position to swallow whole, using the only tool a snake has: it's mouth. There's a pretty good chance you're going to see the same behavior in future feedings, so you should get use to it, or have someone else feed if you can't.

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Originally Posted by Bugmom

Snakes lack the ability to play. Literally cannot play like a dog or cat.

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Are you serious? I tried and play fetch with my snakes yesterday I was wondering why they wouldn't chase the ball...thnx for the helpful info:O:confusd:

I agree with Bugmom. Snakes don't really play with their food. They mearly try to eat.

Thankfully I have the opportunity to feed live or freshly killed. It's a little bit more expensive but definitely a lot less hassle and easier than f/t (that's just my personal opinion). Personally, the thought of defrosting mice just doesn't seem very fun to me.

I had it placed perfectly fpr her to eat it head first. This is the first she has eaten solely for me since I got her back. Before I had to leave jer she ate without "playing" with her food. When she is tossing it literally from 1 side of the enclosure to the next then gnawing the head like she is going to eat it just to toss it again I'm going to say she is playing with it. I'm sorry if that offends some people but this girl use to have a voracious appetite. She would coil, and eat no interaction like she did with this one today. I covered the front of her cage and could hear the thwap thwap of the at hitting the sides. I need to get in there tomorrow and wipe down the sides from blood now. I have never seen a ball do what she did either. I wish I had a stronger stomach to have gotten it on camera and let y'all judge if it was playing or not.

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Originally Posted by Misha

I agree with Bugmom. Snakes don't really play with their food. They mearly try to eat.

Thankfully I have the opportunity to feed live or freshly killed. It's a little bit more expensive but definitely a lot less hassle and easier than f/t (that's just my personal opinion). Personally, the thought of defrosting mice just doesn't seem very fun to me.

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I'm with ya!!

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I've always fed live but since I had this one in the freezer and I get cold easynand really just didnt wamt to drive all the way to town for a rat decided to give it a try. Next time I will just drive to town and get one. I had to do frozen for the ones at the pet store I helped at bit the place smelled so bad I never smelled them.

Just a thought on the smell...

You could have accidentally cooked it a bit with that warm water. I thaw all my rats and mice by leaving them on the counter, and they don't smell. Although sometimes when I put the rats in warm water in a baggie to scent, they has a dull odour.

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Originally Posted by Phantomtip

I had it placed perfectly fpr her to eat it head first. This is the first she has eaten solely for me since I got her back. Before I had to leave jer she ate without "playing" with her food. When she is tossing it literally from 1 side of the enclosure to the next then gnawing the head like she is going to eat it just to toss it again I'm going to say she is playing with it. I'm sorry if that offends some people but this girl use to have a voracious appetite. She would coil, and eat no interaction like she did with this one today. I covered the front of her cage and could hear the thwap thwap of the at hitting the sides. I need to get in there tomorrow and wipe down the sides from blood now. I have never seen a ball do what she did either. I wish I had a stronger stomach to have gotten it on camera and let y'all judge if it was playing or not.

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No amount of video is going to prove that your snake was doing something it can't do. If your snake is playing with anything, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.

Why ask us something then not bother to listen to reason? Your snake is a very simple creature. It eats, poops, and sleeps. It does not, never will, cannot physically, mentally, or magically perform an act it does not possess the capability to do ever, not even once. Seriously. Never. Not for one nanosecond will your snake ever consciously think "this is fun, wheeeeeeeee."

I'm not offended, but I am a bit annoyed at your continued, willful denial of a factual assessment of a snake's mental capacities in lieu of insisting your snake was willfully doing something you found offensive.

Is this a troll? I tried to click on user to see when they joined and it says user doesn't exist and won't take me to their info.

It was probably just adjusting while it was eating. If they're a convoluted mess after the coil or in a tight spot, they'll move around a bit at different points in the process to make it easier to swallow the animal.

No Im not a "troll". I joined last month. Please remember people some people say the snake is "playing" see the marks around the word. I'm not saying she really was. I know reptiles are ruled by instincts. I also know she isn't like my cat and dog. Its a way for me to express what I saw. Its the easiest way for me to put it without racking my abused brain for a more appropriate word. please calm down about a word I used. I still don't like f/ts and my mimd is made up on that point. I will just go back to live stunned. When I defrosted the thing I started with luke warm water, then slowly added more warm water over the course of 4 hrs. Just like I would do for chicken, or pork. So I know I didnt "cook" it. I think the rat voideed its bowels when I killed it. Plus lile I said earlier, Im pregnant and any and every smell gets to me. The main thing is she ate it. So lets drop the subject and go look at some pretty bps.

FT is really about convenience for me. With 23 snakes, and living in an apartment I cant really breed my own rats to feed, and having to keep live is annoying and smelly (they're just as bad as my room mates), But the FT are nice because Its just a freezer full of rats, Don't have to worry about feeding them, or worry about having to keep them alive if someone doesn't feel like eating. That being said, having a thawed rat that no one will take is annoying too, but at least it doesn't try to bite me when I pick it up >.>

Please don't kill feeders with hammers. It's NOT humane. You say you had rat pets in the past and enjoyed them in the same thread you describe smashing one in the skull to kill it - this does not compute with me. You shouldn't be buying a live animal to feed your pet if you don't have the ability/resources to a) kill it humanely b) house, feed, and water it.

Place something rigid like a spoon handle or some kind of rod behind the ears on the back of the skull and pin it to a table at the same time you give a very firm tug on the base of the tail. There are plenty of videos and tutorials around the internet - it's called cervical dislocation.

As for the snake struggling a bit to get the rat positioned to rat it - it's because you let the rat reach the state of rigor mortis before freezing it. Once it's dead you should freeze it right away directly to the freezer. When you thaw it out it should be limp like it was when you first killed it. Like this, there shouldn't be a difference between a rat that the snake killed themself and the one you thawed out. Another possibility is your thawing method - it should be thawed in open air and heated just prior to offering. People who overheat or try to thaw rapidly using heat often talk about exploding bodies, excess blood, etc. This is because the cells are not meant to freeze and thaw rapidly and sustain too much damage through that process to hold integrity.



If F/T is not for you - get a tank, water bottle, food, and treat your feeders like a pet until you're ready to offer again. You have a baby growing inside you and can smash another mammal with a hammer without an ounce of compassion - another contradiction that boggles me. Did you know rats are 80+% genetically identical to humans?

I live im my own home so the only ones I have to worry about saying anything are my in laws. My son is fascinated by my bp. My in laws hate me having her. My husband is fine as long as her enclosure is secure. With only the 1 bp and no other reptiles I have no reason to breed rats. Its more convenient for me to get one while Im in town doing my shopping and getting other errands done. We have 2 exotic stores in town. One charges over $6 for a largish small rat and the other charges a little over $3 for a smallish medium. Yes there is a difference just not a lot on the size. I usually go for one of those two sizes depending on how big her "belly" is. She took a smallish small 2 wks ago and then that f/t that was a smallish medium yesterday. On the smell thing as long as the rat cages are kept clean they don't stink. I've jad them as pets and they smelled less than my cat and hamsters I had growing up. You can also put a tiny bit of vanilla extract in their water which helps hold down the ammonia smell. The only time mine stunk was while I was recouping after surgery and couldn't clean the cage. I can understand why f/ts are more convenient for you with roommates and living in an apartment. I do understand why people feed f/ts and respect their decisions. Personally I would rather do live and if she doesn't eat it return the rat and get another one later. I am glad Im getting her to eat though. The people that were "watching" her neglected her and said she went off fopd by herself for about 3 months till I found out that they used the money I sent for her care on food for them, and their animals not her. She was in a really dirty cage with no water and no heat. There was a lot of shed pieces, and poop all over. She is now in a clean enclosure with fresh water heat and humidity. I'm just trying to get her back up to par on being clean and well cared for. She was my very first bp and she was a sweetheart.

All I do with my F/T rats (and mice) is get everything out of the freezer a couple hours before feeding time. 10 minutes before feeding put two at a time (in a zip-lock bag) in a large bowl with the hottest tap water I can get. After ten minutes I take them out, roll them up in a paper towel to dry while I walk to their cages to feed. If they are still damp I use a hair dryer for a minute or so.

I get an immediate response as soon as the cage is opened. The snakes are very active as they can smell the rats. Seriously 95% of the time they strike in seconds. And when they haven't hit it the first time, another minute under the hairdryer always does the trick.

I don't want to ignite the debate of "live vs f/t," but personally, I feel that if you have *a* BP that is obviously willing to take f/t, then you now have discovered a more convenient, safe and humane way to feed your snake.

FWIW, I keep larger snakes who all eat f/t, and I honestly couldn't imagine feeding them live (prey size and potential carnage/suffering too much to risk), but I do understand folks with large breeding BP collections doing what they need to do to be efficient... But if you have one pet who is apparently willing to take a thawed rat, why not keep that going? As for the "play..." some snakes take a while to inspect and maneuver their food before deciding to eat, especially if it's their first time with f/t. I have a mouser carpet that will some times take nearly an hour to "figure out" her first offering, then gulp her subsequent ones in less than 2 minutes a piece.

Honestly it would cost me more to feed frozen thawed
as I can't get them locally and the shipping is outrageous, understandably so but it would not be worth it for me.
Now if for some reason I had to (i. e. Bought a snake who will only eat frozen thawed) I would but for me live is best.
I don't have any of the bigger snakes but if I ever would go that way I would do f/t then as well.

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Honestly it would cost me more to feed frozen thawed
as I can't get them locally and the shipping is outrageous, understandably so but it would not be worth it for me.
Now if for some reason I had to (i. e. Bought a snake who will only eat frozen thawed) I would but for me live is best.
I don't have any of the bigger snakes but if I ever would go that way I would do f/t then as well.

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Even in bulk, with shipping, f/t is still more expensive? If it is, I hear you, and understand. Back in the old pre-internet days my first boid was a ball python and companies like RodentPro, MiceDirect, etc didn't exist; I bought live and pre-killed to feed my BP until a local reptile show started up and actually did offer frozen rodents... I guess I always felt that if the snake would take a killed item either freshly or thawed, that would be the way to go, for the benefits of both the feeder and snake.

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Originally Posted by KyleZ

Even in bulk, with shipping, f/t is still more expensive? If it is, I hear you, and understand. Back in the old pre-internet days my first boid was a ball python and companies like RodentPro, MiceDirect, etc didn't exist; I bought live and pre-killed to feed my BP until a local reptile show started up and actually did offer frozen rodents... I guess I always felt that if the snake would take a killed item either freshly or thawed, that would be the way to go, for the benefits of both the feeder and snake.

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I wouldn't buy in bulk right now... my one girl won't touch f/t and I was throwing them out, wasted more money than it was worth. So I'm not sure if the new ones would take to them or not. I have no wasted money with live. :)

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I feed all but two of my 40+ snakes f/t because it's my personal preference. Though it can be frustrating, I enjoy feeding them f/t: the warming up, presenting the feeder, watching the snake strike it off tongs or the challenge of getting that undecided one to finally eat is enjoyable to me. The rat smell after warming the feeder up with a hair dryer I could live without though lol

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Originally Posted by Daybreaker

The rat smell after warming the feeder up with a hair dryer I could live without though lol

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Haha I was just wondering if I should try the hair dryer method for some surface detectable warmth... I always just put the sealed bags in faucet-hot water for a while once they are thawed to room-temp. If there is a noticeable smell, well I guess I will just keep doing that! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by KyleZ

Haha I was just wondering if I should try the hair dryer method for some surface detectable warmth... I always just put the sealed bags in faucet-hot water for a while once they are thawed to room-temp. If there is a noticeable smell, well I guess I will just keep doing that! :thumbsup:

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I swear by the hair dryer method: I've had such great results with that over just presenting the feeder warm out of the bag (after thawed). Once they smell that rat smell they all come out of their hides right up to the front of the tub/cage and feeding is super easy since they're already ready to go and "know" that it's time to eat. You get used to the smell so I guess it's not terrible, just not entirely pleasant lol

Maybe I will still give it a shot, at least for the pythons. The boas, they don't seem to have any issues hitting with precision, even without any warming, but the pythons... they definitely seem to rely on the scent + heat pits primarily. It can get downright scary with an adult retic taking swipes when he's hungry, and the only bites I've ever taken from one of my pets in all these years was from my carpet shooting for my hand instead of the not-premium temp food on the end of the tongs. Oops!

I think the reason she tpok it even though it was a little cooler than my hand was os because she is hungry from being on a forced hunger strike. I am trying to get her back up to weight. She was really skinny when I first saw her as in an almost triangle. What I mean by forced hunger strike is the people didn't feed her. They bought food for them and their other pets but not her with the money I sent them. She is nicely rounded right now after eating yesterday.
Oh to the person that said I was being inhumane by popping the rat on the head and killing it instead of breaking its neck needs to realize something. Breakimg the neck doesn't always work. I don't have strong grip strength. Crushing the head is instant. As soon as I killed the poor thing I put it in a bag and directly imto the freezer. I didn't wait. It was limp when I defrosted it. I'm not an idiot. Also if its the first time having to do something like this you can have the bowels void. You also have a higher chance of them voiding with breaking the neck. Also my pet rats were never destined to be eaten. I am an animal lover that is why I did it the quickest way I knew how and I had never had any intentions of ever feeding anything besides live. They are more readily available in my area compared to f/t. Also it's not cost effective for me to load up my freezer with rats when I need to put food in there for my family. I do respect everyone's opinion. This is what makes the world interesting. We can MOSTLY have a good discussion with out someone getting mad or offended. Please lets keep the discussion going. I like understanding why someone does something.

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Originally Posted by Phantomtip

I think the reason she tpok it even though it was a little cooler than my hand was os because she is hungry from being on a forced hunger strike. I am trying to get her back up to weight. She was really skinny when I first saw her as in an almost triangle. What I mean by forced hunger strike is the people didn't feed her. They bought food for them and their other pets but not her with the money I sent them. She is nicely rounded right now after eating yesterday.
Oh to the person that said I was being inhumane by popping the rat on the head and killing it instead of breaking its neck needs to realize something. Breakimg the neck doesn't always work. I don't have strong grip strength. Crushing the head is instant. As soon as I killed the poor thing I put it in a bag and directly imto the freezer. I didn't wait. It was limp when I defrosted it. I'm not an idiot. Also if its the first time having to do something like this you can have the bowels void. You also have a higher chance of them voiding with breaking the neck. Also my pet rats were never destined to be eaten. I am an animal lover that is why I did it the quickest way I knew how and I had never had any intentions of ever feeding anything besides live. They are more readily available in my area compared to f/t. Also it's not cost effective for me to load up my freezer with rats when I need to put food in there for my family. I do respect everyone's opinion. This is what makes the world interesting. We can MOSTLY have a good discussion with out someone getting mad or offended. Please lets keep the discussion going. I like understanding why someone does something.

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I think this is a pretty good discussion. I definitely agree that crushing the skull is one of the most humane methods, provided it's done correctly. Although I breed my own rats, I prefer frozen thawed for feedings. It allows me to stockpile my rats, so I'm never in a bind if a few of my females decide to eat their litters. Plus I don't have to worry about the rat biting my snakes. Win win for me. And I don't really mind the smell, not any worse than meat thawing :)

Something about it got me yesterday. I don't know if it was pregnancy sense of smell or what. I nathed my pet rats once every 6 months even though they didn't stonk. It was a way of keeping their skin and coat healthy. The smell of wet rodent doesn't bother me. It could have been the pet store wasn't feeding a high quality food, or they weren't keeping the cage clean. I know the owner is not big on rats. They think they are dirty and mean. They prefer mice. Me I prefer rats over mice. If I were to breed again and needed a large quantity of rodents then I would do rats and I would be able to do a nice euthanasia tank for them, but with only 1 girl I'm not going to worry about it. I did find a better pet store that sells the rats for less because he breeds his own for his snakes and his store. His place was very clean and the rodents he had in store were well fed and clean also. He showed me the feed he uses and it was a very good quality. I just wish I knew what messed me up about this rat yesterday. It didn't smell like defrosting meat but almost my son's diaper lol. The smell was gone as soon as she ate it but still. Maybe its just preggo smell. Even neef stinks at times and I love beef lol