Fires?????

I've been looking into getting a pair of fires because I feel like it's the cheapest way to get a BEL one day, in addition to making beautiful combos just breathtaking, and managed to work out a great deal for a male/female pair. Now I don't know anything about fires, I have trouble identifying them and everything. : S can someone give me an opinion on these? They're the only double shot I could find for a good price in my area, especially cause I live in canada and I don't have the biggest budget.
First is the female, https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1u9qzgy14...%2054%20AM.jpg
Next is the male https://www.dropbox.com/s/y39u485ein...%2041%20AM.jpg
Please someone who has a better idea about fires help me out!

Buy a BlkEL because that is the cheapest way.

What's funny, is that the last set of black eyeds I saw were a grand.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Taking into consideration feeding and keeping up a pair for at least two (if more three or more, depending on the female) years, as well as there not being a guarantee of getting a BlkEL right out of the gate, just buying one probably would be cheaper...

OP, if you're determined to breed your own, I would go for a super nice female fire and spend a little more, then once she gets to be a year or so old, start looking for a male. He'll be ready much sooner than she will.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

What's funny, is that the last set of black eyeds I saw were a grand.

---

If you take the time to read the OP's post,it's says "a BEL" ,not a pair of them.

First of all OP... fires produce black eyed leucies not blue so I don't know if that matters to ya.
I can't see the pics

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

I do want a black eyed lucy specifically, When it comes to cost I feel like its easier to come up with a couple of extra dollars per week AND I just cant rationalize spending $1000 - $1500 for what is essentially a 2 gene co-dominant morph? Even the blue eyes only go for 300-600 which I feel is a pretty reasonable price. I figure a couple of fires is a better investment for possible future breeding (unrelated to a BEL project as well until I get one) and I also think that breeding for one is a more exciting and rewarding experience in general. True, it might be better to just pick up the female first...

Im going to try to link the photos again...

female
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...2000.28.54.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/322xvqsj5l...2000.28.54.jpg
male
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...2000.29.41.jpghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/gwqvt1dr9c...2000.29.41.jpg

Also feel like I should mention the price I was offered was 300$ for both.

When referring to the super fire its blkEL, BEL refers to the blue eyed.
I hear ya on wanting to hatch out your own, just be prepared if it doesn't happen the first time around.
I am not good at id'ing fires yet, so I can't help there sorry, but since I can see the pics I'm pretty sure you fixed that problem so other people can :)

P.S. Where are the $300 BEL cuz I want in on that!
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Arrg yes sorry super fire is what in referring to, sorry for the incorrect acronym. And maybe not 300 for a BEL but I've for sure For 500.... I just can't figure out why super fires basically double in price....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devonascended

Arrg yes sorry super fire is what in referring to, sorry for the incorrect acronym. And maybe not 300 for a BEL but I've for sure For 500.... I just can't figure out why super fires basically double in price....

---

I was just letting you know so its not so confusing. Honestly I think it's supply and demand on the price. BEL' s are more common therefore sell for a lil less. So far the lowest I've seen them going for is $750 but I guess there's some out there lower.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devonascended

I just can't figure out why super fires basically double in price....

---

If I had to guess, it's due to higher demand from breeders for that animal because when you breed a super-fire that parent will always throw a fire gene into the babies. OTOH if you bred a BEL from a lesser x mohave pairing there's a chance, however small, that neither gene will make it into any particular baby.

That is a nice looking Fire.

BEL's are commonly selling for $500 these days.

1.0 Super Fires can be had for under $1000.

I am breeding for my own BEL this season and have three Mojave x Butter locks already.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...psf175189f.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by devonascended

I just can't figure out why super fires basically double in price....

---

The Fire gene is much nicer to add to about any morph than a Lesser/Butter/Mojave.

Lesser Pastel or FireFly?

Butter Pastel or Nuclear (Butter Fire)?

Sugar Mojave or Sugar Fire?

Enchi Lesser or Enchi Fire? (that's honestly a toss up for me).

Just like with a Super Pastel, you are guaranteed no Normals with a SuperFire clutch. Not so with the BEL complexes. Your odds nearly double with a SuperFire combo when pairing with any other single gene because you take out the possibility of Normals in the clutch. With a BEL pairing you have 3 possibilities that may cross with your other gene you pair with... whatever 2 genes made your BEL, plus a Normal, because the BEL is not a Super like the SuperFire.

Even though they may look the same, the potential of a SuperFire is far greater than any BEL combo.

See where I am going?

Okay okay you guys certainly have a point about price when it comes to demand... Market rules all I suppose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by coreydelong

The Fire gene is much nicer to add to about any morph than a Lesser/Butter/Mojave.

Lesser Pastel or FireFly?

Butter Pastel or Nuclear (Butter Fire)?

Sugar Mojave or Sugar Fire?

Enchi Lesser or Enchi Fire? (that's honestly a toss up for me).

Just like with a Super Pastel, you are guaranteed no Normals with a SuperFire clutch. Not so with the BEL complexes. Your odds nearly double with a SuperFire combo when pairing with any other single gene because you take out the possibility of Normals in the clutch. With a BEL pairing you have 3 possibilities that may cross with your other gene you pair with... whatever 2 genes made your BEL, plus a Normal, because the BEL is not a Super like the SuperFire.

Even though they may look the same, the potential of a SuperFire is far greater than any BEL combo.

See where I am going?

---

A BEL is a super. A Blue Eye (Mojave/Butter) bred to a normal will only produce Mojaves and Butters. There will be no normals in the offspring.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joebad976

A BEL is a super. A Blue Eye (Mojave/Butter) bred to a normal will only produce Mojaves and Butters. There will be no normals in the offspring.

---

I had that in my head but obviously did not hold down the CTL button or something on WOBP cause that's not what popped up :confusd:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joebad976

A BEL is a super. A Blue Eye (Mojave/Butter) bred to a normal will only produce Mojaves and Butters. There will be no normals in the offspring.

---

I was thinking that but thought I was perhaps mistaken.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by grcforce327

If you take the time to read the OP's post,it's says "a BEL" ,not a pair of them.

---

I wasn't referring to a pair, this past weekend I looked at Mike Wilbanks setup and Topnotch Ball Pythons, their black eyeds all started at a grand and went up from there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kodieh

I wasn't referring to a pair, this past weekend I looked at Mike Wilbanks setup and Topnotch Ball Pythons, their black eyeds all started at a grand and went up from there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

---

Watch Mike's FB page for coupon discounts on SuperFires. He produced a lot of them, so some were going for $800-$900 with the coupon code.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bcr229

If I had to guess, it's due to higher demand from breeders for that animal because when you breed a super-fire that parent will always throw a fire gene into the babies. OTOH if you bred a BEL from a lesser x mohave pairing there's a chance, however small, that neither gene will make it into any particular baby.

---

lesser x mojo BELs are allelic, so whatever you breed that BEL to, everything will either be lesser or mojo. you won't get any normals.

just my opinion:

if you want to go into breeding, starting with male single-gene fire and female single-gene fire will make it really really hard (impossible?) to break even on cost, it would be strictly hobby breeding. also dont underestimate the time it takes, your time has value, if you take that into consideration it would make more sense to invest more in the snakes you want to breed. if you put a price tag on the hours of work that go into it, lets say minimum wage, i guess it makes more sense to start with, lets say, two nice females for 300 each and one nice male for 600.

if you really want to get into breeding, then especially the male single-gene fire will get really useless really quickly. given the costs involved and the time and effort, a 100 dollar male is not something you want to breed.

if you want a black eye lucy super fire, the cheapest way is to buy one. its 1000 or lower for a male, and buying a pair of fires for 300 and breeding them will not be cheaper in the end.

if you insist on producing your own super fire AND want to breed in such a way that you have a chance of recouping some of the costs and getting nice clutches, get two fire female hatchlings. and one year later, buy a double gene or even triple gene male hatchling, obviously with fire in it, and breed him to both females.

these are just suggestions, im not telling you what to do, its just that buying a pair for 300 (the female is worth more so its a 100/200 or 120/180 split) for breeding is a guaranteed way to lose money, especially if you do it right and dot cut corners, and you will likely lose more than the 800-1000 dollars a male super fire costs now. by the time you hit a second super fire to sell, prices for a super fire will be much lower, maybe something like 500 dollars. not enough to recoup your investments in thermostats, incubator, hatchling rack, food, electricity.


i plan on getting into BP breeding, but i will resist the temptation until i moved and have enough space for it, also i will not start before i saved up at least 2000 euros (2500 dollars). and i figured that budget is the lower boundary to get into it when starting small with 2 females and one male, with nice equipment and without cutting corners and with money for vet visits.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

just my opinion:

if you want to go into breeding, starting with male single-gene fire and female single-gene fire will make it really really hard (impossible?) to break even on cost, it would be strictly hobby breeding. also dont underestimate the time it takes, your time has value, if you take that into consideration it would make more sense to invest more in the snakes you want to breed. if you put a price tag on the hours of work that go into it, lets say minimum wage, i guess it makes more sense to start with, lets say, two nice females for 300 each and one nice male for 600.

if you really want to get into breeding, then especially the male single-gene fire will get really useless really quickly. given the costs involved and the time and effort, a 100 dollar male is not something you want to breed.

if you want a black eye lucy super fire, the cheapest way is to buy one. its 1000 or lower for a male, and buying a pair of fires for 300 and breeding them will not be cheaper in the end.

if you insist on producing your own super fire AND want to breed in such a way that you have a chance of recouping some of the costs and getting nice clutches, get two fire female hatchlings. and one year later, buy a double gene or even triple gene male hatchling, obviously with fire in it, and breed him to both females.

these are just suggestions, im not telling you what to do, its just that buying a pair for 300 (the female is worth more so its a 100/200 or 120/180 split) for breeding is a guaranteed way to lose money, especially if you do it right and dot cut corners, and you will likely lose more than the 800-1000 dollars a male super fire costs now. by the time you hit a second super fire to sell, prices for a super fire will be much lower, maybe something like 500 dollars. not enough to recoup your investments in thermostats, incubator, hatchling rack, food, electricity.


i plan on getting into BP breeding, but i will resist the temptation until i moved and have enough space for it, also i will not start before i saved up at least 2000 euros (2500 dollars). and i figured that budget is the lower boundary to get into it when starting small with 2 females and one male, with nice equipment and without cutting corners and with money for vet visits.

---

Wow this is really fantastic advise.... I think I will get the fire female and maybe get a multi gene male latter.... Hmmm this whole thread has given me a lot to think about...

I feel like I should note that I am, above all, a hobbyist. I keep pythons because I like to, the way I think about it, I will never recoup my loses by breeding or otherwise, I consider that money gone. I keep herps in my off time, as a leisure activity, because I love the animals. if I make a buck, cool. If I don't, whatever.