Figures my luck would run out now!

So I've had some pretty decent luck this past year. 3 snakes we bought were supposedly mouse only eaters, and one strictly ASF eater. Well we switched them first feed over to rats, zero problems. Then I get a wicked odds dual sired clutch from my virgin pinstripe Genesys, Paired to two virgin males. Thats about where the luck ran out... Her clutch hatched out around the 29th of September, and since then only 3 of the seven hatchlings has taken a meal.. One of three Jigsaws, the Lemonblast, and one normal. I've tried live mouse hoppers, which seem a bit on the large side, live day old rat pinks, frozen thawed rat pinks, scenting mice with rat, scenting rat with mouse, feeding in a small container, and leaving food overnight. So far they seem determined to make me pull what hair I have left out!! I'm getting a bit concerned as they have lost a bit of weight since hatching, and I don't know what else to do. I will be trying braining ft rat pinks this weekend, beyond that I'm stumped. Any suggestions? Something I might not have tried yet? Am I worrying for no reason? I know BP's can go some time without feed, but hatchlings worry me.

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1) be consistent. All that stuff you're doing to help is actually part of the problem. How are they supposed to learn what to eat if you keep changing the food?

2) Buy live rat pups. At night, when it's dark, put 1 pup in with each snake - then walk away. An hour later, come back and take out the pups that are still alive. Try again 3 days later. and then again 3 days after..

Sometimes you have to assist feed hatchlings till they begin eating on their own. Grab them behind their jaw shove a pinkie halfway down their throat and they should do the rest. Sometimes it Takes a couple times and some patience but eventually they will get the point. If they spit it out 3 times I usually just try again in a few days. It sounds barbaric but if you really care about not losing your hatchling it's what needs to be done. Welcome to balls haha.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

1) be consistent. All that stuff you're doing to help is actually part of the problem. How are they supposed to learn what to eat if you keep changing the food?

2) Buy live rat pups. At night, when it's dark, put 1 pup in with each snake - then walk away. An hour later, come back and take out the pups that are still alive. Try again 3 days later. and then again 3 days after..

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These little guys hatched out around 50 grams each, and I'm thinking rat pups might be a bit large for them? That's why I've been trying pinkies. But I will stick with this and be consistent.

Regarding assist feeding, I know that's an option, but definitely a very last resort. I'm going to stick with consistent attempts of live for the next couple weeks, see where that gets me.

Figures you try your hardest to help the little ones, and are actually doing everything wrong.

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I'm not an expert, but if they hatched out at 50g I personally would keep a close eye on weight loss, a couple more weeks may be too long to wait to assist feed.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

I'm not an expert, but if they hatched out at 50g I personally would keep a close eye on weight loss, a couple more weeks may be too long to wait to assist feed.

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong

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your not haha

ok OP im going to give you some "tough" advice its not meant to insult it was something that was told to me when I started...when it comes to assist feeding hatchlings its not uncommon at all. I have to do it all the time. your well past when I would start. you are at risk of losing your snakes now. especially in hatchlings if you can actually notice weight loss your wayyy past not wanting to assist feed. its not a bad thing. it shouldn't be a last resort when it comes to getting hatchlings to eat. its how ball pythons are. I can see how it could be scary to somebody like yourself but honestly its part of breeding balls. if your not prepared to do it don't breed. simple as that. because sooner or later youre going to have a clutch that doesn't eat. so either learn to assist feed, give them to somebody who will, or stop breeding.

its not pretty.. but it saves lives. its not about shoving food in their throat. they actually learn what food is and begin to eat on their own a lot faster this way than if you just starve them. and you may say oh well im giving them food im not starving them they just aren't eating. by your lack of willingness to take action you are in fact starving them. sometimes they need guidance.

I'd assist feed a pinkie now because another week or two could be to too late.

I was in the same boat two years ago with my daughter's bp. It just would not eat (we got it knowing it hadn't fed while in the pet store). I tried everything you tried, with no success. The snake passed before I could assist feed.

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I have always found how they perceive security is the issue, not the food source. The trick I always use is to crumble small balls of newspaper and fill the tub up with them. Later that day, try a live feeding.

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Originally Posted by TJsBalls

These little guys hatched out around 50 grams each, and I'm thinking rat pups might be a bit large for them? That's why I've been trying pinkies. But I will stick with this and be consistent.

Regarding assist feeding, I know that's an option, but definitely a very last resort. I'm going to stick with consistent attempts of live for the next couple weeks, see where that gets me.

Figures you try your hardest to help the little ones, and are actually doing everything wrong.

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one thing I will ask you.. its been this long with the mentality of "I'm going to stick with consistent attempts of live for the next couple weeks, see where that gets me"... what makes you think its going to magically work tomorrow or the next day.. it doesn't work like that with hatchlings. not when its already to the point of them losing weight.

I've obviously gotten some bad advice in the past in regards to hatchlings. Last year was my first year breeding, with one clutch and no real issues to speak of with regards to feeding. I appreciate all the advice you folks her have given me, and I will go home tonight and attempt to assist feed. Its not Something new to me, I had a pastel hatchling I bought a few years ago that required assist feeding. I've clearly made a horrible mistake in trying to get my hatchlings to feed, and I will do what I can to remedy the situation. Its a horrible way to have to learn, but I don't think I should not breed because of this. Just my thoughts. Thanks all.

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No I believe he was saying if you're not willing to assist feed. But you are more than willing to do what needs to be done :)
People learn all the time, even the experts! Please let us know how it goes.

Once they start feeding, I would definitely try cluttering the tubs or use a smaller one. (Not sure what size they are in)
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Oh I know what he was saying. I didnt take any of that as insulting or what not. I am definitely more than willing to do whatever it takes to make sure my babies thrive. These little gems are my pride and joy, and I'd be heartbroken if I lost one of them.
They are in 6qt sterilite shoe boxes, with small coconut hides and a small water bowl. I did have crumpled paper in with them for the first couple weeks, but they seemed to respond well (aside from lack of eating) to the small hides.

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Once they're eating I'd try the crumpled paper again.

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I will do that. Thanks :-)

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Yeah in no way was anything meant as a negative or anything like that. Sometimes what I say comes out rough but it has good intentions! Keep us updated!

No worries Zach, all advice is much appreciated and taken to heart!

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Late to the party, but good advice from all. I don't know many who have been breeding for any length of time that have not had a few hatchlings that needed a jump start aka assist feed. I have had several. It's just one of the many things most people never think of when breeding. Also wanted to mention not to get frustrated if your hatchling(s) spit the pink back out a few times. Just be patient and try 2-3 times to get them to take it, if it gets too stressful on the snake (or on you) wait a day or two and try again. You can also try this little trick (as gruesome as it sounds): open up the pinks head and get to the brain matter. Nasty, yeah but it sometimes can help entice a stubborn hatchling to eat. Good luck!

Don't beat yourself up. Assist feeding is a last resort because it's just not pleasant, and we want to see our little snakes thrive on their own. You did the right thing by offering different feeders and in different ways. You came here instead of being stubborn and not asking for help.

I just don't want to see anyone else go through a loss because I know how hard it is, and there's always some part that of you that blames yourself. It's human nature.

Let us know how the assist feed goes. Good luck!

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Well, that was a dismal failure. I just finished trying to assist feed all 4 hatchlings, and not a single one was having any of it. I'm afraid if I wait another 5 days to try again it'll be too little too late, but I don't want to stress them, or myself, any more than I already have!

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Is there someone that could help you?

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I've talked to a couple breeders I know, but none of them live close enough to me. I'm still reaching out to a couple folks, fingers crossed. I'll keep trying to do what I can for them, but I know I need to give it 3 or so Days before I try again.

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I didn't see it mentioned, or it may have just been left out, but have you tried frozen thawed hopper mice? What about ASF fuzzy/hopper stuff if you have access to it?

Learning to assist feed can be frustrating and stressful on you and the snakes, it takes practice and learning to get the rodent item into their mouths and them set back down as quickly and smoothly as possible can definitely make you pull your hair out. I would suggest starting with the smallest pinkys you can find and don't use live ones. You might need to get the pinkys head into the back of it's mouth, almost to the point of starting into it's throat sometimes.


As for bringing in snakes that were feeding on (insert whatever food item)...I picked up three adult female pastels this season, two on rats, one on asf's...the asf feeder is on rats now, one of the rat feeders is on asf's, and the other rat feeder wants little stuff...I'm talking a 2000gram female that won't touch something larger than a rat fuzzy that's barely starting to open it's eyes. Fun stuff isn't it?

So have not tried frozen thawed Hopper mice, only live. Unfortunately I don't have local access to ASF rats anymore, our supplier seems to have fallen off the face of the earth. Thats why we started breeding our own rats.

I have the basics of assist feeding down, as I said, it's not the first time I've had to, these guys just don't seem to be any kind of interested. I do have a litter of undersized pinkies, from an elderly female I didn't separate soon enough, in the freezer. Next time I try assist feeding I will try them.

The pinks I used last night were between 7-10 grams, so I'll go smaller, and pick up some ft Hopper mice as well, just in case.

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All my hatchlings are attempted to be started on live rat pinks/pups depending on their size. Fussy ones get a few chances with a rat pink. After a few attempts they get a live mouse hopper... a small one.

You would be surprised at how a timid feeder strikes immediately at a live mouse hopper when they would shy away from rats. Once they take a few hopper mice I start them on rats. Get some old stinky mouse bedding and shake and bake a rat pup in it for a few seconds. You little shy timid feeder will now be on rat pups.

Well finally some good news! After another failed attempt to get them to eat on their own, I tried assist feeding them once with no luck. Went back to give it another shot today, and so far both jigsaws have taken after gently pushing the head of the prey item into their throats. They finally got the idea and took them!
http://i620.photobucket.com/albums/t...psd8f46f0f.jpg
I'm so relieved to finally have some food in them! Just taking a quick break to have a smoke and calm down some, then I'll head back in and do the same for the other 3. One of the normals has taken on is own, and the Lemonblast is eating like a champ (had no issues getting her started on her own, and she is up to 90 grams) Oh the joys of BP hatchlings!

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Awesome news!!! I know it's such a relief :)

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Definitely is! All but one have now had at least one meal. The stubborn little Mojave boy is the only one still refusing.

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