Hello and a little first python help

Hi everyone, my name is Kim and Donna is my daughter and the snake owner (mostly). I have wanted one for years, but never was able to talk the hubby into it. How Donna managed is still some what of a mystery. It went really fast, her talking the other parent into it, finding a tank for it and having it be on sale all at the same time. We jumped the gun a little maybe, but we are a zoo here and I am sure w/ a little guidance we can make this a proper home for our friend.

y main focus is saltwater reef and I have a lot of experience w/ lighting, but it does not carry over well. I am missing something in the translation as we talk spectrum's and par. Keeping proper humidity should not be a problem, but from what I have read they don't need excessive humidity anyway.

The care sheets here state that temp is more important than bulb color? and that they prefer nocturnal lighting? I guess the first thing I need incite on would be proper lighting and temp requirements.

So last a pic of the new family member
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/a...psddd4d987.jpg

Lighting is actually not even necessary, BP's are nocturnal animals, and do just as well with or without supplemental lighting. What is important is temperatures and humidity. Your cage needs to have a hot side that is between 88-92 degrees F and a cool side between 78-82 degrees F. No part of the cage should ever get above 95 or below 75. Cage humidity needs to be between 40% and 60% normally, and between 60% and 80% when the snake is in shed.

Here is a thread on how to set up a cage for a BP, step by step with pictures:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...With-Pictures!

After cage temperatures/humidity the next most important thing is proper hides for the snake. In the wild BP's hide in rodent burrows all day, and only come out at night to hunt. Your cage needs 2 identical hides. One on the hot side, and one on the cool side.

From the picture your little guy looks pretty thin, and dry. You need to boost the cage humidity.

Here is a thread covers cage heating in detail:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...t-Thermometers

Thx those are very helpful. We are using a night black heat bulb 75 watts and it seems to be keeping the tank nice and warm. My house is really humid all year round as we run over 100gals of reef tank in an apartment (my landlord hates me, I'm sure) and if I were to guess I'd say the humidity is 60% on any given day. What can I do to produce a little extra in his tank? The pic is an hour or so after coming home from petco...I know tomorrow would be the day they normally feed, not sure if that might have anything to do w/ the skinniness as he is our first so we are still learning what to look for as far as a healthy snake goes. W/ petco normally feeding on Tuesdays should I offer a meal tomorrow?

you could mist the enclosure to get the humidity up. But I wouldn't guess on the percentage I would get a good digital meter. As far as feeding the normal procedure is leave them be for a week to settle in before handling or offering food.

What if anything are you using to measure temperatures/humidity?

Coming from petco, your snake has very likely been underfed it's entire life. You can try offering a mouse hopper, or rat pup tomorrow (mouse pinkies and in most cases mouse fuzzies are way too small for any BP) but don't be too surprised if your snake doesn't eat. many times a BP will need some time to settle into a new home before thy will start to eat. Keep to the weekly feeding schedule. If your snake refuses a meal they don't get food offered until the next weeks feeding day. Offering food too often can actually stress out a BP and result in more refusals.

Like I said my whole house is above average humidity wise, but I agree that guessing is not in his long term interest and will pick up the proper meters tomorrow. I'm not expecting that he will eat tomorrow, but feel it should at least be offered, you never know. Petco has a bad rep in general so I am not surprised Okay so if he doesn't eat tomorrow though I should wait till the following Tuesday to offer....got it. to hear that his condition needs a little love. As far as handling we are bad, but will try to behave. We have not handled him a lot, but have held him a little bit today. We are very excited to have him and will do our very best, thanks for the help in getting us there.

I just picked up a spider ball from Petco on friday for $99. Let him settle over the weekend. Came home from work this evening and he was acting like he was hungry. All I had in the freezer was fuzzys (wasnt really thinking he would eat til this weekend) so I trawed him a couple out and he just finished them both up and is back in his hide. There all different, this one settled in fast. Not all do.

As far as the humidity goes some say to much is bad, some say not enough is bad .The common seems to be 50-60% normal or 70-80% during shed. Thats why a gauge is needed.

It's understandable to want to hold and handle. but resisting will sure make the settling process go a lot quicker. good luck

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Originally Posted by led-zep

I just picked up a spider ball from Petco on friday for $99. Let him settle over the weekend. Came home from work this evening and he was acting like he was hungry. All I had in the freezer was fuzzys (wasnt really thinking he would eat til this weekend) so I trawed him a couple out and he just finished them both up and is back in his hide. There all different, this one settled in fast. Not all do.

As far as the humidity goes some say to much is bad, some say not enough is bad .The common seems to be 50-60% normal or 70-80% during shed. Thats why a gauge is needed.

It's understandable to want to hold and handle. but resisting will sure make the settling process go a lot quicker. good luck

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Just want to clear up the too-low vs too high issue with humidity.

Too low humidity is bad, anything under 40% is too low.

High humidity on it's own is fine. The parts of Africa that BP's come from have very high humidity practically year round, much higher than most people keep their cages. The issue with high humidity is that it is often achieved by drastically reducing air-flow in the cage, and can cause condensation on everything inside the cage. A cage that has low air flow and is damp all the time can grow some nasty stuff in it. That said as long as a cage has good airflow, and there isn't any condensation forming on the inner walls of the cage high humidity (above 60% RH) is fine.

Here is a chart showing the average low and high % humidity in Ghana (where BP's come from)

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/...7.png~original

Thanks for clearing that up merchant. :)

Cool I think we are good, I will still get the meter to watch and see where the humidity goes, but my home is 60-70% easy. His tank is a 65gal acrylic tank that was drilled for good air flow, and set up for use w/ reptiles. Are there any tell signs that he is not happy? He has been active, checking out his cage a good part of the day.

:-O That is waaay too big, haha. a bp that size needs a 20 gallon, max...or else that cage should be very cluttered up with stuff. A active ball python isn't a happy ball python, unfortunately. But I'm sure he has to get used to the new surroundings. Thanks for taking him in. :)

Generally speaking a hiding BP is a happy BP, Excessive activity during the day can be a sign of stress, but when a BP is introduced to a new cage it is normal for the snake to explore.

Some signs that you are doing everything right are:

• Your snake regularly eats
• Your snake grows at a steady rate
• Your snake sheds in a single piece

Cool, right now we have the tank set up for him on end so it is not so huge to him. And we are going to set up anything we missed tomorrow. Hope we can do right by him, we are very animal friendly here.

Good luck with your new member of the family! I know the feeling of suddenly acquiring a new snake! I had wanted snakes for a few years but didn't broach the subject as I thought I would get a flat out no, turns out most of my family weren't as against the idea as I anticipated (I actually live away from home for studies) A week later I was buying my little girl (Pastel Royal/Ball Python) and now three weeks later I have myself a 700g 100% het albino! They're addictive!

As has been said, a happy BP s a hiding BP but my little girl spent her first few hours roaming around her vivarium before spending her first night or two actually curled up behind her hide rather than in it! I would personally leave your new member a full week before feeding regardless of when they were scheduled by Petco. It may seem cruel but it will not harm your new addition at all, in fact it may help to speed up the settling process as you aren't allowing them to get stressed. And of course hides are important. With my new one he came in a rub without a hide so first thing today I have went and bought him one, my rub isn't big enough to house two but I thought one was better than nothing until I could house him in a slightly bigger enclosure.

I think everything has been covered very well and I wish you happiness with you new family member! :D

Well after spending some time on here reading ( there is a lot left out in general care sheets, till you get here) I have come to the conclusion that s/he is starting to shed. our threads are awesome, and the pics invaluable. he eyes are slightly bluing, and cloudy, so I am not gong to feed him or mess w/ him the rest the week. I'll keep changing water and checking temp and all that. We made a temp hide for the night and will get started on making one tomorrow. I work w/ coral reef tanks and am good w/ DYI projects. Have a moray eel, which isn't the same but they have a couple common traits. Any way after putting in a hide for the night,s/he seemed to settle right into it. Came out once as if to tell the cats to back off ( I promise they can't get to the snake) went back in and stuck its head out. Hubby who was the one to say no for so long even seems to like our new charge.

I think hides make all the difference in helping to settle! There are so many threads for shedding as well which I found very useful with my little one as she had a bad shed in her settling period! As long as your temperatures and humidity are correct and they are relatively stress free you should have a seam-free shed :)

Sorry to say it twice if it has been said already, but I read in your second post that your house humidity is average of 60% so the tank will be around the same. Be careful as the light you have shinning down dries out the air in the tank. so even though you may have 60% in the house, the tank itself may be a lot lower because of a heat lamp.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by trevo

Sorry to say it twice if it has been said already, but I read in your second post that your house humidity is average of 60% so the tank will be around the same. Be careful as the light you have shinning down dries out the air in the tank. so even though you may have 60% in the house, the tank itself may be a lot lower because of a heat lamp.

Good luck.

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No that hasn't been pointed out but I did consider it. I am thinking of going the under tank heater for this reason....is there any reason I couldn't use one w/ an acrylic tank? I am also getting a humidity meter first chance. You guys are all very helpful. As the profile says it is Kim and Donna, if the forum is kid friendly (seems to be so) I would like to let Donna on here to pick your brains, as she will be the main care giver soon.

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Originally Posted by Kim and Donna

No that hasn't been pointed out but I did consider it. I am thinking of going the under tank heater for this reason....is there any reason I couldn't use one w/ an acrylic tank? I am also getting a humidity meter first chance. You guys are all very helpful. As the profile says it is Kim and Donna, if the forum is kid friendly (seems to be so) I would like to let Donna on here to pick your brains, as she will be the main care giver soon.

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A uth will not keep your ambient temps up so if you keep your house cooler than 75 you may need the lamp also.

Edit... after rereading the size of your tank... you will probably need the bulb
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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

A uth will not keep your ambient temps up so if you keep your house cooler than 75 you may need the lamp also.

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Oh no, 75-80 through and through, no one likes the cold in my house. Misting and lamp? Saw the meter at wal mart that did a couple of the different things on a start up thread here, so I will be checking into one of those. Very cool, from the other end of the hobby world I mush say this is not as easy as I figured it would be.

Yes the lamp shouldn't be in your tank, so misting is absolutely fine and done 9 times out of ten with a tank

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Trust me the lamps not going anywhere in the tank, especially w/ water being misted. Wouldn,t want this guy to get burned, and second I am of the sound opinion water and anything electric are bad beans when combined. We try to keep general thoughtlessness out of the house and common sense in. These bulbs produce a lot of heat. Regarding the bulbs though, the ceramic is used cue to the high temp of the bulb, correct? Is this the mane reason for cerramic fixtures over anyother type, or are there other reasons?

The ceramic will get hot but will not melt in the heat as with other material. Using a thermostat will stop the bulb from getting to hot.

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So I have this foam sealant used for ponds, and in my industry sometimes used to create foam rock for in tank use. Is there any chance this is a safe material to make the hides w/?

I wouldn't do it, their tank and accessories need to be able to be cleaned and disinfected monthly. It is easier just to use dark Tupperware type containers with an entrance cut in or something like that. Or since it's more of a display tank you can get the ones in stores although they are a lil pricier

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I personally buy specific reptile hides but many different people use different things for hides. Things as simple as an empty ice cream container with a smooth doorway cut out is more than sufficient. Just remember BP's like to rub when shedding to get that skin off :) Some people also suggest a third hide (separate from the hot and cold end ones) to be filled with spagnam moss to help with humidity which is useful during the shedding process also. I'm personally getting a third hide made for my girl as her last shed wasn't great due to my humidity not being perfect and the stress of a new home.

I know it seems like a lot but you do learn quickly and with experience. A month ago I had no idea but from the help of the reptile place I got mine from and these lovely people here I feel like I have enough knowledge to give my BP's a happy and healthy home! (and if all else fails I'm sure these guys will keep me right! :) )

In regard to your comment about child friendly, I have witnessed nothing on this site which would make me think otherwise. The member's are here to help if you ever have a problem and guide you whenever they can! :D

Its a personal choice, but I have learned that you always want something with a false bottom. If you give them something small enough to fit into that you can't get your hand into to get at them, you won't be able to get at them when you want to. I learned this with a skull candle holder I had. My hand was to big for the holes so I had to wait for Shamo to come out and I got rid of it then and there.

Now i use 2 false bottom rocks, and a piece of cork bark that he loves to hide under.

Cool, sense I added a hide in there (a temp one) I have not seen him much. You will have to excuse me guys....I am a firm believer in if you know how to research something you know how to do anything. I am also accustom to a much more extreme hobby, full of tank crashes (not mine) sps loosing color, high nutrients and 911 threads on reef forums. But I don't see anything like that here. I keep reading threw post looking for the my pythons going down hill fast, or disease related threads, and not a lot. I am getting the idea that w/ these guys we have plenty of warning (if vigilant) that we will see problems w/ more than enough time to fix them? Of coarse I am reading threw the threads looking for things I can be on the look out for, signs of stress or complete down fall, so if you guys could provide some of that info (because I must not be seeing it) I'd be grateful. We really love Leviathan ( kid named him) and want to be good caretakers.

I was told in an earlier post that not roaming is a good sign???He is staying put in a ball in the hide. I am guessing if he wasn't happy the roaming would be due to searching out a more comfortable place, a obvious sign the set up is right?

I don't think I should be, but experience w/ other animals over the years tells me to be a little concerned.

He is being a ball python! You won't see him much as long as he has a comfy hide :) One note tho you should have one on the hot side and the cool side so he can thermoregulate and still feel secure

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

He is being a ball python! You won't see him much as long as he has a comfy hide :) One note tho you should have one on the hot side and the cool side so he can thermoregulate and still feel secure

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Oh I have been taking notes and you guys have been amazing writing them out for me. You guys know your stuff, keep an eye out for my fish tank thread, you'll like it. So since petco never knows anything (which I kind of planned for) I have done some rearranging and modifying of his home w/ more to come on payday (planned that close just in case too). Don't worry I handled him very little, placing him back in the petco box for a short time. We are using a 65 acrylic tank. It has been modified for ventilation and has the benefit of not loosing heat like glass can, or on the other end, not getting too hot. It also traps the heat very well. This is the tank we think he can spend most his life in (haven't looked up all the inches yet) and he has no job or breeding to attend too so we'd like a display type of set up. The first light is a nightlight red, more heat less light, and the other is one of the blue heat bulbs petco carries. Only plan to run that maybe 4hrs a day though. Sorry still learning, so bare w/ me a little on the lights. I will pick up the dual gauge payday, and will keep a close eye until then. I also made sure to include a temporary hide, but will be picking up 3-4 all a little different for easy of shedding and choice (we all like a little choice). Also I want to fill the tank a little and make it snugy for him. I would like to include a branch, maybe smoothed out, so he can explore when he is not so shy.

Please correct any bad ideas, as we want the best home for him. I have put a blanket over the tank, being careful not to block air flow. Hoping he can get some quite, he is already in a nice low zone for traffic.....

Sounds pretty good :) Only thing I would change is make sure the hides are all very similar if not exactly the same. For a tank that size 3-4 would be good for a young one. You want them all the same so they don't have to choose between feeling secure and thermoregulating. If they feel safer in the cold size hide they may stay there instead of going to warm up if they don't feel as secure in the hot side hide and vice versa.

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If you're snake is out and moving around all the time, he's trying to find a comfortable spot to hide and sleep or if it's been a while since he fed, he wants to eat. If he's hiding for a week and you don't see him that means he's comfy.

Each ball python has its own personality and will act accordingly. My little guy likes to strike when there is a lot of activity going on around him when hes out of his tank. He'll come out calm, chill in my hand, then the dog goes running by and he strikes in the dogs direction (He's 2 months and the dog aint small). None of the other balls i use to own did that. Just one of this guys little quirks :)

Be patient, do a few checks each day, keep the water fresh and make sure he eat and you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Sounds pretty good :) Only thing I would change is make sure the hides are all very similar if not exactly the same. For a tank that size 3-4 would be good for a young one. You want them all the same so they don't have to choose between feeling secure and thermoregulating. If they feel safer in the cold size hide they may stay there instead of going to warm up if they don't feel as secure in the hot side hide and vice versa.

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Cool same size, makes sense. And yeah he has been chiliing in his hide for almost 2 days now....appears to be comfortable....but the did come from petco. I guess I am bothered by the fact that I could give him a cold bucket and he would be happier than he was at petco. His new home could be up to par and that's the goal but is he really happy or just better off than being where he was. We just don't want to give a better home than petco, we want him to have a home that compares to well kept snakes. A proper home....thx for helping us. Even my husband who does not like them( he has meat 1 or 2 in his life he liked, proving they have their own personality) likes him. It bothers me that he doesn't leave the hide, but I am use to animals that are not so shy. his is new and from everything I've been reading and you guys have told me, that is good. Still hard to not hover and see if he needs anything.

I went into petco to get another bulb yesterday and it was defiantly his feeding day by their clock, all the others were in back feeding. Should I make the offer as some one pointed out he is skinny, or should I hold off til next week and let him settle. I was planning for the second, but I don't like the thought of him missing a meal if he is already under weight. And how do you guys estimate age?

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Originally Posted by Kim and Donna

Cool same size, makes sense. And yeah he has been chiliing in his hide for almost 2 days now....appears to be comfortable....but the did come from petco. I guess I am bothered by the fact that I could give him a cold bucket and he would be happier than he was at petco. His new home could be up to par and that's the goal but is he really happy or just better off than being where he was. We just don't want to give a better home than petco, we want him to have a home that compares to well kept snakes. A proper home....thx for helping us. Even my husband who does not like them( he has meat 1 or 2 in his life he liked, proving they have their own personality) likes him. It bothers me that he doesn't leave the hide, but I am use to animals that are not so shy. his is new and from everything I've been reading and you guys have told me, that is good. Still hard to not hover and see if he needs anything.

I went into petco to get another bulb yesterday and it was defiantly his feeding day by their clock, all the others were in back feeding. Should I make the offer as some one pointed out he is skinny, or should I hold off til next week and let him settle. I was planning for the second, but I don't like the thought of him missing a meal if he is already under weight. And how do you guys estimate age?

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Its almost impossible to estimate age. Hiding is good. They are nocturnal so he may be out at night when you don't see him :) I personally tried my two new arrivals on my normal feeding day and to my wonderful surprise they both ate!! You can try and if he doesn't eat try again in 5 days
So far it sounds like you've giving him a wonderful home.
Oh when you feed do it in his enclosure they feel safer

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That is something I have been meaning to ask, as a kid I heard that was a no no? But as I have come to know w/ my eel, he knows when I have food in hand and when I don't and I'm just digging around in his space. Never has struck at me, and they do strike like snakes do when feeding. So I am assuming that this guy will smell food when it's there and as long as I don't smell like food the rest of the time, I should be good. I am starting to see the feed else where thing as a myth based off them being a dumb animal, and well their not. I am nervous to offer the first feeding, so we shall see. We have adult frozen mice, they were feeding him something smaller, not sure what...but I did make the choice right there to up his food size...intuition I guess, but I still may have chosen something not right for him? Any thoughts and tips on feeding him?

You are correct as long as you don't smell like food you'll be fine. Moving them for feeding stresses them out.
Do not be surprised if he doesn't eat the first time you offer it. Many refuse the first time. As for method of feeding you can put the thawed prey in front of his hide, and wiggle it a bit. You definitely wanna blow the prey with a hair dryer in front of his enclosure to get the smell floating around

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Awesome......what about food size and what I picked? I see threads regarding what is best for what age and size snake, but to me that is still German, because I speak reef tank, not quite speaking snake tank yet? I think the had him on pups at the store, I choose adult mice. hey were feeding mice for sure that much I do know.

Adult mice will be good to start, looking at the picture. You can start with that.

My girl is 4 months old and can take 2 adult mice... she doesn't like rats

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/hutazady.jpg
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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Adult mice will be good to start, looking at the picture. You can start with that.

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Awesome, thx for checking, and great to see I have a little intuition about this guy :)

Not the best pic color wise but ya can get an idea

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I am now trying to decide how to thaw....this is going to be yucky, not the feeding just the preparing of meal. I think use live would be preferable to me, but they say he eats frozen and I see no justification to change that if it's true....I am going to thaw it over night and try tomorrow, as a bag of warm water sounds soggy and nasty. Just got to hide the mouse in the fridge from my husband....he will go on a hunger strike over that one, lol.

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

Not the best pic color wise but ya can get an idea

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That helps a lot, this guy is smaller I think,. He fits in one of my hands just hanging over a little. I'll make sure to take a pic holding him next time. But that maybe a week or so.

If you let it thaw like that you still need to warm it up before feeding and most do use a cup of warm water. You can also use the hair dryer but it must be very warm not cooked but very warm

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So soggy mouse no matter what? Like body temp warm? Does it need to be some what dried too? Wiped of extra water w/ paper towels?

I put my frozen rodent in a ziplock. Put that in the warm water. Let it thaw.

After it's thawed (1 to 2 hours usually depending on size), I will usually then put the ziplock in another container of warm/hot water to increase the rodent temp above room temp. The second dip is only for 5 to 10 minutes. The rodent doesn't need to be hot, just above room temp. Helps the snake detect it and strike it.

By now it's defrosted, slightly above room temp and dry due to being in the ziplock.

Take out of ziplock and feed non-soggy rodent to BP.

I heat up a cup of water in the microwave and put the forzen rodent in it to thaw (while in a ziploc bag) and put a spoon on it to hold it down in the water, I sometimes I have reheat the water once or twice depending on rodent size and then make sure to take it out while the food is still warm, I dry mine off with a paper towl if it is damp, some snakes don't care if they are damp others do it seems if the snake takes it damp don't worry just a little more water for it. Just don't microwave the rat :)

Personally I starte my guy on rat pups live from the go and he feeds no issues. Last time I went to get a rat pup the store was out and they gave me a pretty well full grown mouse and he ate that too no issues. I find live gets the best response quickly.

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Originally Posted by trevo

Personally I starte my guy on rat pups live from the go and he feeds no issues. Last time I went to get a rat pup the store was out and they gave me a pretty well full grown mouse and he ate that too no issues. I find live gets the best response quickly.

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Trust we have no prob trying live if we need too. I do think if there's no reason to take a mousey life why do it. But both my daughter and I have a fascination w/ biology and life sicance, so feeding him live (as sick as this is ) is kind of fascinating if the need arises.

I feed live, none wasted!! I threw out a dozen f/t live and wasted close to $30 trying it. Live... no waste.
Even f/t lives have been taken, you just didn't see it happen
;)

Plus I found it to be a major pain the butt.
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I have no issues w/ either so I guess it will depend o what he prefers.....I wont waste money or products if her prefers live, he'll just get live. But for now I am mostly sticking w/ the frozen because that is what they say he was eating and I am sure too many changes....store- here and all isn't helping anyone, him or us, caring for him.