Identifying Butters and Lessers

So I know this is probably a totally newbie question, but I still have a problem identifying Lessers vs. Butters. I was looking at some new additions in the BP picture forum and someone that had recently gotten a Lesser, looked to me as a butter. The way that I was told to ID butters vs. lessers was that the flames on the side of butters were a "butter" yellow color vs. the grey flames of a lesser. IDK if people sell lessers as butters and vice versa, but any tips to help me ID them would be helpful!

Also, the thread in the bp picture forum was a Pastel Lesser, so not sure if that makes a lesser look more like a butter with taking some grey out of the side flames and giving them more of a butter yellow tint?

They are one in the same.... Butter is the same as Lesser... Just different lines of the same morph. There are lessers that look like butters and butters that look like lessers... Just call them the same thing and you will be correct.

They are the same gene, different lines.

More often what I see is dark, ugly ones are called butters and bright ones are lessers.

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one thing is definitively true: you can find all appearances, all of the spectrum, labeled as both butter and lesser. so when searching for something to buy, just look for both and buy what appeals to you.

i think its the same gene. but i would call the ones that go towards silvery grey colors lessers, and the ones that have more golden brown colors butters.

Thanks for the input. I had seen some opinions around the two being different so this helps clear some of those questions up.

Generally, I think of it as the more muted, greyish toned animals being Butters and nice bright clean coloring as Lessers. That seems to correspond mostly with what I see folks advertising their animals as.

Same genetic mutation. Different lines.
If there is a lesser that looks a certain way, there's a butter out there that is identical. Both mutations have the same variation in individuals.

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What is meant by "different lines"??

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

What is meant by "different lines"??

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Like family lines. Butter and Lessers are the same mutation. But both originate from two separate wild caught individuals. Lesser Platinum decend from Ralph Davis' Platty Daddy and Butter from the Bells.

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Different lines means 2 different people imported, named, and proved the genetics of the same mutation. There are a ton of different pastel lines as well as yb lines and a ton of other morphs out there.

Thanks....I forget sometimes there isn't a "ruling body" for snake morph names lol
Seems like they should get it figured out which name everyone likes and just stick with one :P

Another instance of this is Green Pastel & Lace Black Back.

I forget how the story goes but one guy had it and never named it then he sold the babies to somebody else who decided to name it and named it Lace Black Back. I think Amir is the one who went with Green Pastel. So Amir sells them as Green Pastels but Lace Black Back & Green Pastels are one in the same.

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Originally Posted by Neal

Another instance of this is Green Pastel & Lace Black Back.

I forget how the story goes but one guy had it and never named it then he sold the babies to somebody else who decided to name it and named it Lace Black Back. I think Amir is the one who went with Green Pastel. So Amir sells them as Green Pastels but Lace Black Back & Green Pastels are one in the same.

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Its a similar story for coral glows and bananas. Same gene, named by two competing breeders.

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Its a similar story for coral glows and bananas. Same gene, named by two competing breeders.

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Weren't they even called "White smokes" at one time or another? I think I saw one labled as that on VPI.

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Its a similar story for coral glows and bananas. Same gene, named by two competing breeders.

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I thought coral glow was the opposite sex to banana...

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

I thought coral glow was the opposite sex to banana...

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Same genetic mutation, but a different blood line.

Both have the same gender 'issues'.

Gender issues? Wha? Did I miss something?

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Originally Posted by Anya

Gender issues? Wha? Did I miss something?

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I think CG/Banana is a sex linked morph? Kind of similar to a calico cat where as most calicos come out female, most CGs/Bananas come out male.

Does anybody have a picture of a butter and a lesser side by side if would love yo see if there's any difference in them


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Originally Posted by MisterKyte

I think CG/Banana is a sex linked morph? Kind of similar to a calico cat where as most calicos come out female, most CGs/Bananas come out male.

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Similar, but I don't think that's what's going on. Calicos are all female unless a male inherits an extra X chromosome. CG/banana are way more wacky. There are tons of threads out there on the topic though, don't want to derail OP's thread :)

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Originally Posted by Bowlshot

Does anybody have a picture of a butter and a lesser side by side if would love yo see if there's any difference in them


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Personally I think they're the same thing, just lots of variation. I bought the pair below several years ago as a Lesser male and Butter female. I've produced babies from each and there's just too much variation to say one way or the other.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4513.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4422.jpg

Lesser

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/lesserm2.jpg

Butter

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/butterf2.jpg

Lesser

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3..._1450FLSSR.jpg

Butter

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3..._1448FBTTR.jpg


Butterbee and Lesserbee

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4367.jpg

I think all of your pics just reinforce that they are different yet allellic morphs. I could tell the Butter apart from the Lesser in all of those pictures

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Originally Posted by sho220

Personally I think they're the same thing, just lots of variation. I bought the pair below several years ago as a Lesser male and Butter female. I've produced babies from each and there's just too much variation to say one way or the other.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4513.jpg

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4422.jpg

Lesser

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/lesserm2.jpg

Butter

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...0/butterf2.jpg

Lesser

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3..._1450FLSSR.jpg

Butter

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3..._1448FBTTR.jpg


Butterbee and Lesserbee

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_4367.jpg

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These pictures reinforced the fact that though both the butter and lesser share "common" traits when you combine other morphs the results are clearly different, IMO I like regular lessers, but butters when they're with other morphs. :P

Very good pics also!

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Originally Posted by BigJayPiercer

I think all of your pics just reinforce that they are different yet allellic morphs. I could tell the Butter apart from the Lesser in all of those pictures

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If you took 2 different normals side by side, I think you could tell them apart also. There are plenty of cases of butters looking like lessers and lessers looking like butters. Every year as they keep getting outcrossed this becomes more true. I mean how obvious was the butter/lesser in this thread: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...er+lesser+vote

I doubt robin will have a problem with me re-posting her picture from that thread, but her animals are even a better example than mine:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...serFemale4.jpg

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I doubt robin will have a problem with me re-posting her picture from that thread, but her animals are even a better example than mine:
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...serFemale4.jpg

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Perfect example of natural variation in two lessers.



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Originally Posted by MisterKyte

Weren't they even called "White smokes" at one time or another? I think I saw one labled as that on VPI.

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Never heard that one myself. Though ive only recently moved into BP morphs. The onky reason i knew about the CG/banana bit was because a more expierenced friend stopped me from completeing a sentance so i wouldnt look like a complete.idiot infront of his high end vet breeder buddies LOL

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Originally Posted by Mephibosheth1

I thought coral glow was the opposite sex to banana...

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Nope they are both male makers. Two competing breeders had the originals, when the realised it was a dom/ codom they decided to unveil it and name them. One picked coral glow one picked banana. Though i think if they were line bred for long enough, they could become seperate mutation that share lineage. Similar to albino and lavender albino and some of the others.

Coral glow and banana have female makers too.

And roughly 10% or less of male makers make female cg\banana and vice versa with female makers producing males.

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As has already been said, they are the same. Same morph, just two different lines. And both butter and lesser can have variations in appearance. As far as identifying one from the other, you would have to the take breeders word for which line they have.

Piece of cake!!!
This is a Butter!
http://askgeorgie.com/wp-content/upl..._30-Butter.jpg

This is Lesser not Butter!
http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.co...b1d15abaab.jpg

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

Nope they are both male makers. Two competing breeders had the originals, when the realised it was a dom/ codom they decided to unveil it and name them. One picked coral glow one picked banana. Though i think if they were line bred for long enough, they could become seperate mutation that share lineage. Similar to albino and lavender albino and some of the others.

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Except Albinos and Lavender Albinos are different mutations.
I don't think that breeding CGs/Bananas separately through X amount of years will eventually result in a change in the base genetics that make what they are, and what they are is the same!

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

Piece of cake!!!
This is a Butter!
http://askgeorgie.com/wp-content/upl..._30-Butter.jpg

This is Lesser not Butter!
http://1.media.collegehumor.cvcdn.co...b1d15abaab.jpg

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hahaha thanks...that is easier than I thought

It only it were that easy

Albino and lavender albinos aren't compatible with each other to make a homozygous form. Lesser and butter share the same homozygous form. Same as CG and Banana too.

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Originally Posted by BigJayPiercer

I think all of your pics just reinforce that they are different yet allellic morphs. I could tell the Butter apart from the Lesser in all of those pictures

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Are these a different morph?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/IMG_2329.jpg

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Originally Posted by MisterKyte

Except Albinos and Lavender Albinos are different mutations.
I don't think that breeding CGs/Bananas separately through X amount of years will eventually result in a change in the base genetics that make what they are, and what they are is the same!

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I could have swore some one told me the lavenders were line bred from a "different" looking albino some one produced? Welp the more you know, thanks.

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Originally Posted by V2 HeX

I could have swore some one told me the lavenders were line bred from a "different" looking albino some one produced? Welp the more you know, thanks.

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lipstick line albino in boas are line bred like that, bout closest thing I know of to that.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

lipstick line albino in boas are line bred like that, bout closest thing I know of to that.

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That may be the one i am thinking of then. I started with boas so possible i got it mixed up...