Getting a ball python tomorrow!! Advice??

Hey guys! I'm new here and looking for some advice.
I'm getting my first ball python tomorrow (actually, my first reptile! I've had fish, cats and dogs but never a reptile!) and will also be getting my setup tomorrow.

I will be getting this aquarium from petsmart: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo
I figure since it is low but wide and long it would make a good home for my new snake! I will be using a screen top and know that it might be difficult to maintain humidity, but I read online a method of putting a damp towel on top of half of the screen to help maintain humidity. Would this be a good long-term home for the snake? I am hoping to buy something big enough for him (I don't actually know if I'm getting a guy yet but i hope to!) to grow into, rather than having to buy new housing and move him every time he grows.

Also, with where I am living now, I can't use a UTH. I've seen a few instances of these burning wood when the enclosure is kept on it, and since the only place I have to keep him is on top of a dresser that my grandmother has owned since before I was born, I absolutely can't risk burning the wood. I was planning on using black heating lamps and changing out the wattage until I can get the proper heat gradient going. Would this be sufficient, as long as I can get the temperatures appropriate? I will be able to get a metal stand for the terrarium when I go to grad school next August and move out, but until then I don't have space. I've also heard stories about malfunctions causing the UTHs to get really hot and burn the snake, so I'm very wary of using one if I can get away with not using it.

I am planning to get reptile carpet for the enclosure (http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo) It seems like the best option to keep the substrate clean and avoid impaction or substrate getting into the digestive tract during feeding. Since I will be feeding him in his enclosure (I've done a lot of reading about this and unless I'm having real problems with feeding him in the enclosure I don't plan on moving him to feed to avoid the risk of a regurg) it seems like the easiest option for me. Has anyone used this or something similar? Is it a good idea or are natural substrates better?

Is there a certain size his water bowl should be? I want to get a larger one to help maintain humidity (obviously still small enough that he could hang out on the cool side without soaking) but I know their hides should be just the right size for them and am not sure about the water bowl. Could I keep another water bowl on the hot side? It seems like keeping water on the hot side (which would obviously result in more evaporation) would definitely help in maintaining humidity since I am going to have a screen top. Would that make a problem for the snake? I am very concerned about humidity because I am not sure how well the reptile carpet will retain/evaporate water.


Phew! Ok that's all I can remember right now. Any advice you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated!!

Best advice I can offer is read read and read some more. Esp. the stickies on this site. Good luck and I am sure you will love it...but beware its hard to have just one.

Noo you need a heatpad with a thermostat to control the heat it woud not burn wood heat belly is a neccesity for ball pythons they dont need heat lamps at all and if would recomend geting a smaller tank if ur getting a baby theyll get really stressed out if their enclosure is to big if u have anyother questions feel free to ask

As far as UTH go, they are safe for both the snake AND the wood dresser! As long as you use a thermostat(which you should anyway).

Think about how hot that thing would have to get to burn wood, like 180-200°F? How would that feel on your snake?

If you are going with a glass aquarium, and a screen top, you'd be cheating yourself if you didn't do some type of under tank heat.

As far as substrate, people use everything from newspaper, paper towels, Cyprus mulch, potting soil, aspen shavings or chips, coconut husk etc etc. personally I use Eco earth in some enclosures and pine shavings in others. Basically as long as it isn't cedar you should be ok. Obviously research whichever substrate you choose to use.

As far as tank size, there is no such thing as to big. Busy it up a bit when they are younger and take stuff out as they grow. They need to feel secure, but give them the option to venture out if they want. Africa is a big continent and they seem to do just fine there haha.

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My advice is delay your purchase when it comes to the animal.

Ideally you really want your setup up to be up and running and stabilized prior to acquiring your animal, BP can are easily prone to stress while adjusting to their new environment and trying to have an animal adjust to a new an environment that may still need days of tweaking may slow down it's progress causing other issues.

You may want to do a little research to make sure that the setup you are actually thinking off is the best for your animal and will allow you to maintain proper temps, but will also provide optimal security.

Here is what I would recommend you to read

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ius)-Caresheet

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...e-Basics-*DUW*

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...p-w-pics-*DUW*

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Originally Posted by vintageflow

Hey guys! I'm new here and looking for some advice.
I'm getting my first ball python tomorrow (actually, my first reptile! I've had fish, cats and dogs but never a reptile!) and will also be getting my setup tomorrow.

I will be getting this aquarium from petsmart: http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo
I figure since it is low but wide and long it would make a good home for my new snake! I will be using a screen top and know that it might be difficult to maintain humidity, but I read online a method of putting a damp towel on top of half of the screen to help maintain humidity. Would this be a good long-term home for the snake? I am hoping to buy something big enough for him (I don't actually know if I'm getting a guy yet but i hope to!) to grow into, rather than having to buy new housing and move him every time he grows.

Also, with where I am living now, I can't use a UTH. I've seen a few instances of these burning wood when the enclosure is kept on it, and since the only place I have to keep him is on top of a dresser that my grandmother has owned since before I was born, I absolutely can't risk burning the wood. I was planning on using black heating lamps and changing out the wattage until I can get the proper heat gradient going. Would this be sufficient, as long as I can get the temperatures appropriate? I will be able to get a metal stand for the terrarium when I go to grad school next August and move out, but until then I don't have space. I've also heard stories about malfunctions causing the UTHs to get really hot and burn the snake, so I'm very wary of using one if I can get away with not using it.

I am planning to get reptile carpet for the enclosure (http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...AvailInUS%2FNo) It seems like the best option to keep the substrate clean and avoid impaction or substrate getting into the digestive tract during feeding. Since I will be feeding him in his enclosure (I've done a lot of reading about this and unless I'm having real problems with feeding him in the enclosure I don't plan on moving him to feed to avoid the risk of a regurg) it seems like the easiest option for me. Has anyone used this or something similar? Is it a good idea or are natural substrates better?

Is there a certain size his water bowl should be? I want to get a larger one to help maintain humidity (obviously still small enough that he could hang out on the cool side without soaking) but I know their hides should be just the right size for them and am not sure about the water bowl. Could I keep another water bowl on the hot side? It seems like keeping water on the hot side (which would obviously result in more evaporation) would definitely help in maintaining humidity since I am going to have a screen top. Would that make a problem for the snake? I am very concerned about humidity because I am not sure how well the reptile carpet will retain/evaporate water.


Phew! Ok that's all I can remember right now. Any advice you guys can give me would be greatly appreciated!!

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Al I know is you need to do way more reading. I did a lot before I bought my first and still,while all seems good,still a lot I need to learn. Don't rush,if you are going to get any pet make sure you have the time and money to take care of it. That's the most I can say at the moment.

I'd advise against using the carpet. I started out with that for my lizard, thinking it'd be easy to clean, cushion the impact of a fall, and all the other crap they'd like you to believe. It's more hassle than anything. You need to wash it anytime your snake makes a mess, meaning you'll need at least two pieces for the cage (one to use while the other is in the wash). You might even need 3 if your snake likes to poop right after you clean, which they WILL do. I'm convinced my snakes' main goal in life is to poop in a freshly cleaned cage :) Also, if you decide to go with an UTH, they do not transmit heat very well and you may struggle with both heat and humidity. If I could do it again, I'd save myself the 40 bucks and buy a $2 roll of paper towels if you want to go with a non-particulate substrate.

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Originally Posted by Sgpython

Noo you need a heatpad with a thermostat to control the heat it woud not burn wood heat belly is a neccesity for ball pythons they dont need heat lamps at all and if would recomend geting a smaller tank if ur getting a baby theyll get really stressed out if their enclosure is to big if u have anyother questions feel free to ask

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Belly heat a necessity? I use radiant heat panels in my t8 and it works more then perfectly with no belly heat, and he's 100% healthy over a year old

Ok I have another question! I got all the stuff and am putting it together right now. Does the water dish have to be on the extreme cold side? Because even though I've got a 20 gallon long it seems like the warm hide and cool hide are close together. Alternatively, I could switch the cool hide and the water dish to give my lil guy a bigger choice in temperatures! I've attached a picture of the current setup, with the water bowl on the extreme cold side.
I've got cold to the left, hot to the right.
And I took you guys' advice and got a UTH. I have a black light on top in case I need to adjust the heat gradient but have it off while I'm testing the baseline with just the UTH on

EDIT: The water dish is kind of hidden in the plant vine thingy, but its in there on the left!
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...flow/setup.jpg

Did you get a thermostat with that under tank heater? If not I wouldn't put any animal in there until you do. You NEED a thermostat for any heat source just to be safe and also to control the environment.

Water dish can be placed anywhere, so long as you change it when it's soiled/stale/evaporated.

I would recommend something other than carpet for bedding. Not good for humidity or cleanliness(unless you want to go through the hassle of washing it everytime it's soiled). It's easier to use disposable bedding such as newspaper, papertowel, or loose substrate.

I ordered a thermostat and some clips to lock the lid on amazon. I couldn't find any of either at the petsmart by my house and that's where I went to get all my supplies. Right now im running it to see where the temperatures and humidity lay so I can figure out how often I need to mist ect. Thanks so much, you guys have been really helpful!!!

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Originally Posted by vintageflow

Ok I have another question! I got all the stuff and am putting it together right now. Does the water dish have to be on the extreme cold side? Because even though I've got a 20 gallon long it seems like the warm hide and cool hide are close together. Alternatively, I could switch the cool hide and the water dish to give my lil guy a bigger choice in temperatures! I've attached a picture of the current setup, with the water bowl on the extreme cold side.
I've got cold to the left, hot to the right.
And I took you guys' advice and got a UTH. I have a black light on top in case I need to adjust the heat gradient but have it off while I'm testing the baseline with just the UTH on

EDIT: The water dish is kind of hidden in the plant vine thingy, but its in there on the left!
http://i245.photobucket.com/albums/g...flow/setup.jpg

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Technically speaking you really didnt need to buy a UTH in my opinion its not worth the 200+ after you buy a thermostat too... Honestly think about it, there aren't any UTH's in the wild a heat lamp acts like the sun and warms the substrate its more natural in my opinion.


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Originally Posted by dillymann

Technically speaking you really didnt need to buy a UTH in my opinion its not worth the 200+ after you buy a thermostat too... Honestly think about it, there aren't any UTH's in the wild a heat lamp acts like the sun and warms the substrate its more natural in my opinion.


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*sigh*

Please do not listen to this person.

Let me explain something to you. Ball Pythons, in the wild, spend the majority of their lives living in rodent burrows in hot, hot Africa. The heat of the sun warms the ground, while the ball pythons snuggle in their warm, slightly-humid burrows. These snakes do NOT bask, and they do NOT like bright lights. If you were talking about a colubrid like a Western Hognose, or even a Kingsnake, I might agree. But not all snakes fit the same profile. Any heat lamp that is warm enough to make a hot spot of 90 F is going to suck your humidity, and you'll end up with a dried-out, unhappy snake.

Edit: Not to mention, it is not 200+ for a basic hydrofarm thermostat and a UTH. Try more like 60 bucks And it's going to save you in electric bills.

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Originally Posted by Anya

*sigh*

Please do not listen to this person.

Let me explain something to you. Ball Pythons, in the wild, spend the majority of their lives living in rodent burrows in hot, hot Africa. The heat of the sun warms the ground, while the ball pythons snuggle in their warm, slightly-humid burrows. These snakes do NOT bask, and they do NOT like bright lights. If you were talking about a colubrid like a Western Hognose, or even a Kingsnake, I might agree. But not all snakes fit the same profile.

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THERE ARE NO HEAT PADS IN THE WILD if you use an infrared lamp its not bright because they can't see that spectrum and it acts as the sun and warms the air aswell as the substrate EXACTLY THE SAME AS IN THE WILD!!


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Originally Posted by dillymann

THERE ARE NO HEAT PADS IN THE WILD if you use an infrared lamp its not bright because they can't see that spectrum and it acts as the sun and warms the air aswell as the substrate EXACTLY THE SAME AS IN THE WILD!!
I know they don't bask and it proves my point even more because they don't have an option in the wild other than the sun!

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YAY CAPS LOCK PARTY HOW ABOUT THERE ARE NO INFRARED LAMPS IN THE WILD? GUESS WHAT OUR BALLS DON'T LIVE IN THE WILD.

Do what you think is best, bro. How many BP's do you have? You run lamps for all of them? How are your sheds?

I have perfect sheds every time. And in captivity we are supposed to replicate their environment in the wild the best we can. I know for a fact that a lamp is more like their wild environment than a heat pad


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Originally Posted by dillymann

I have perfect sheds every time. And in captivity we are supposed to replicate their environment in the wild the best we can. I know for a fact that a lamp is more like their wild environment than a heat pad


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Yay good for you!

If anyone needs me, I'll be busy importing some dirt, insects, wild rodents, and bacteria from Nigeria. Or maybe Ghana... Choices, choices.

Actually an UTH simulates the 'wild' better than a heat lamp. Ball pythons keep warm by residual ground heat. They're nocturnal animals. They don't go out in the sun and bask. A UTH simulates residual ground heat the best.

A heat lamp is more suited for an animal that needs sunlight and arid conditions in my opinion....

If you use a heat lamp or UTH, it doesn't matter. Just do what works for you and your animals. I personally think an UTH is better than a heat lamp. But that's just my opinion, which I am basing on certain known facts.

And snake's aren't living in a glass box in the wild either. :\

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Originally Posted by satomi325

Actually an UTH simulates the 'wild' better than a heat lamp. Ball pythons keep warm by residual ground heat. They're nocturnal animals. They don't go out in the sun and bask. A UTH simulates residual ground heat the best.

A heat lamp is more suited for an animal that needs sunlight and arid conditions in my opinion....

If you use a heat lamp or UTH, it doesn't matter. Just do what works for you and your animals. I personally think an UTH is better than a heat lamp. But that's just my opinion, which I am basing on certain known facts.

And snake's aren't living in a glass box in the wild either. :\

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I'd rather my snake live in a glass box than a plastic tub and i try to replicate the wild the best i can i understand your point about residual ground heat but the sun does it in the wild not heat pads.


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Originally Posted by Anya

Yay good for you!

If anyone needs me, I'll be busy importing some dirt, insects, wild rodents, and bacteria from Nigeria. Or maybe Ghana... Choices, choices.

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And I said replicate not make it their environment


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Originally Posted by dillymann

I'd rather my snake live in a glass box than a plastic tub now Free

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O the horrors of plastic tubs!! Animal cruelty, practically. How very dare they!

Glass, that superior product. All hail the glass!

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Originally Posted by dillymann

And I said replicate not make it their environment


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And I said 'good for you'. What I choose to import or not is none of your concern. :P

Why are you trying to start stuff putting words in my mouth all i said is i would rather keep them in a glass tank rather than a plastic bin


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Not trying to start anything. Just having some fun with a 16 year old kid who thinks he knows everything, bro.

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Originally Posted by dillymann

Why are you trying to start stuff putting words in my mouth all i said is i would rather keep them in a glass tank rather than a plastic bin
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Word of advice here, if you cannot debate intelligently without resorting to insults, you might want to keep YOUR opinion to yourself.

Now back to our regular programming.

Come on people....folks are getting awfully spun up about a truly minor technical choice.

Belly heat? Overhead heat? Back heat? They can all work, if the keeper does what it takes to make it work. It's certainly not a topic worthy of such heat and vitriol. Say what you prefer...say why you prefer it....but don't resort to insulting (either directly with words or indirectly with sarcastic, condescending attitudes) someone else just because they have different preferences.

It's not about replicating the wild dillyman. Maybe for you, but not for everyone. For me it's about providing the conditions your snake needs to thrive and allowing enough room to observe natural behavior.

Doesn't matter whether it's done with a heat lamp or not but i find a heat pad to be more efficient in retaining humidity and not creating frequent dry spots in the cage. That said I keep mostly semi-arboreal snakes so I use radiant heat panels for overhead heat and heat pads for supplemental heating in the winter.


EDIT: do you give your ball pythons burrows like the ones they inhabit in the wild? Or do you just give them hides on top of substrate?

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

It's not about replicating the wild dillyman. Maybe for you, but not for everyone. For me it's about providing the conditions your snake needs to thrive and allowing enough room to observe natural behavior.

Doesn't matter whether it's done with a heat lamp or not but i find a heat pad to be more efficient in retaining humidity and not creating frequent dry spots in the cage. That said I keep mostly semi-arboreal snakes so I use radiant heat panels for overhead heat and heat pads for supplemental heating in the winter.


EDIT: do you give your ball pythons burrows like the ones they inhabit in the wild? Or do you just give them hides on top of substrate?

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I use snake caves


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Originally Posted by dillymann

I use snake caves


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Whats a snake cave? Im not being rude here, but I dont think Ive ever seen one. Is it just a hide?

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Originally Posted by dillymann

I'd rather my snake live in a glass box than a plastic tub and i try to replicate the wild the best i can i understand your point about residual ground heat but the sun does it in the wild not heat pads.


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Well, a glass enclosure is not a replica of the wild ethier, a tub would be closer. Ball pythons live most of their life in other animals burrows which are dark and snug like a tub. All my picky eaters eat WAY better since I have moved them to a rack system in tubs from a blacked out tank. Ball pythons will "bask" from warmth on substrate that was heated from the sun and that will be from their belly because they avoid the hot Aftican sun all day. Which a heat pad controlled by a thermostat mimics best.

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Originally Posted by ROACH

Whats a snake cave? Im not being rude here, but I dont think Ive ever seen one. Is it just a hide?

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http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/17/8egyhupe.jpg


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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

It's not about replicating the wild dillyman. Maybe for you, but not for everyone. For me it's about providing the conditions your snake needs to thrive and allowing enough room to observe natural behavior.

Doesn't matter whether it's done with a heat lamp or not but i find a heat pad to be more efficient in retaining humidity and not creating frequent dry spots in the cage. That said I keep mostly semi-arboreal snakes so I use radiant heat panels for overhead heat and heat pads for supplemental heating in the winter.


EDIT: do you give your ball pythons burrows like the ones they inhabit in the wild? Or do you just give them hides on top of substrate?

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Snakes thrive in the wild therefore replicating their wild environment provides the conditions they need to thrive


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Originally Posted by DSpythons

Well, a glass enclosure is not a replica of the wild ethier, a tub would be closer. Ball pythons live most of their life in other animals burrows which are dark and snug like a tub. All my picky eaters eat WAY better since I have moved them to a rack system in tubs from a blacked out tank. Ball pythons will "bask" from warmth on substrate that was heated from the sun and that will be from their belly because they avoid the hot Aftican sun all day. Which a heat pad controlled by a thermostat mimics best.

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Tubs and glass tanks are basically the same but the reason i would rather a glass tank is for display... :)


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Originally Posted by dillymann

Snakes thrive in the wild therefore replicating their wild environment provides the conditions they need to thrive


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Ball pythons thrive in captivity too, maybe even better than the wild since we cut out all the negative factors that the wild bring such as predators. A snake can thrive in a box with paper towels, two plastic hides and a warm and cold side. Is this replicating the wild?

Humans once thrived in the wild too, some civilizations still do to this day.

I would like to see what your enclosures look like. I doubt they resemble the "wild" that ball pythons come from.

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Originally Posted by dillymann

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/17/8egyhupe.jpg


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That is not the wild sorry. Nor does it accurately represent the burrows that ball pythons inhabit.

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Ball pythons thrive in captivity too, maybe even better than the wild since we cut out all the negative factors that the wild bring such as predators. A snake can thrive in a box with paper towels, two plastic hides and a warm and cold side. Is this replicating the wild?

Humans once thrived in the wild too, some civilizations still do to this day.

I would like to see what your enclosures look like. I doubt they resemble the "wild" that ball pythons come from.

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That is not the wild sorry. Nor does it accurately represent the burrows that ball pythons inhabit.

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I never said it was the wild and it is more accurate than any other thing I've been able to find


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Originally Posted by dillymann

I never said it was the wild and it is more accurate than any other thing I've been able to find


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Are you just playing with semantics here? Dictionary definition of Replicate: make an exact copy of; reproduce. To replicate the wild is to create it elsewhere.

And I don't mean to be rude but a man made burrow in a deep layer of substrate would be more accurate than that. Maybe with a top soil mix of sand or shredded cocohusk. With a glass tank there should be more than enough room for that amount of substrate.

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Are you just playing with semantics here? Dictionary definition of Replicate: make an exact copy of; reproduce. To replicate the wild is to create it elsewhere.

And I don't mean to be rude but a man made burrow in a deep layer of substrate would be more accurate than that. Maybe with a top soil mix of sand or shredded cocohusk. With a glass tank there should be more than enough room for that amount of substrate.

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Or do what many people do with monitor lizards; put 2-3' of dirt as a substrate so they can actually live in burrows. But cleaning and checking the well-being of your pet becomes EXTREMELY difficult at this point.


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I agree checking on your animal would be difficult but not the cleaning part. If you're going to have that much substrate might as well go bio-active and have small critters cleaning up after the snake.

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

I agree checking on your animal would be difficult but not the cleaning part. If you're going to have that much substrate might as well go bio-active and have small critters cleaning up after the snake.

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That would be really cool actually. Like beneficial bacteria in an aquarium.


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