Which One For Me? (BP, RTB, JCP, WP, etc.)

I'm hoping to purchase my first snake in a few months, and am having a tough time deciding on which type to get. Currently considering Ball Pythons, Red Tail Boas, Jungle Carpet Pythons, and Woma Pythons. From what I've heard on this board and from my snake savvy friends, Ball Pythons, Red Tail boas, and Woma Pythons are the way to go.

Here's what I'm looking for
- Care: low maintenance, beginner friendly; not extremely likely to die on me if I make a mistake here and there.
- Temperament: relatively docile nature. I want a snake that I can handle very regularly without wondering if I'll be taking a bite to the face each time. Of course I understand that other factors play also play a large part, but I may need to stay away from the ones known to be temperamental.
- Housing/Environment: won't require a large set up. Unfortunately I cannot afford a 5' tall set up, although I wish I could. Ideally I'd like a snake that would be okay with a 35 to (possibly) 75 gallon tank/terrarium? Or the tub equivalent. I don't know how realistic this is because I've never looked into it, so if anyone has input on this I'd appreciate it.
- Size: on the other hand, I also prefer heftier snakes, and would like one that grows up to be anywhere from 5' to 10'.
- Feeding: I plan on feeding frozen and thawed rats, and really do not want to feed rabbits or anything larger than a good sized rat.
- Price: budget for snake and equipment is around $300 - $400.

Please remember that I am a complete novice to snakes and reptiles in general (and amphibians). There are a few things that I am expecting to compromise on, but that's a general idea of what I'm looking for.

Again, currently considering the following

- Ball Pythons.
Pros: easy to care for, great size, don't require a large habitat, generally docile, wide variety of colors and patterns.
Cons: I hear they can be finicky and picky eaters, so I'd be worried about a young one dying.

- Red Tail Boas
Pros: I'm very fond of the look, especially the more vividly colored/higher contrast ones. Again, a size that I like. I hear their temperament is usually nice, too, although apparently a friend of a friend was bit in the face by her RTB? I'm not too concerned though, s*** happens.
Cons: Not sure yet, I haven't done much research on them. Could they potentially be too large for me, given my limited options with tanks/terrarium sizes?

- Jungle Carpet Pythons
Pros: They are gorgeous. Exactly what I'm looking for aesthetically in a snake. The person who brought JCPs up initially spoke fondly of theirs, mentioning how calm and docile he was. And did I mention that they're stunning? I keep going back to them for just that.
Cons: I've heard them likened to chainsaws. And there is the habitat size issue again.

- Woma Pythons
Pros: Most people I ask seem to like them a great deal, and I've heard them recommended as beginner snakes. I've heard that they're not known to be snappy, but are still more active than ball pythons.
Cons: Again, haven't done much research on them. To be honest I strongly prefer the head and colors of the former three to the woma python.

MarkS also mentioned the Irian Jaya carpet python being a possibility. Any thoughts on them? Would they be a more beginner friendly alternative to the jungle carpet python?

Other recommendations would be welcome. Please be warned, I am placing a great amount of emphasis on looks/appearance and size. There are some snakes that would be perfect for me but unfortunately I'm just not sold on them aesthetically. With that said, I'm going to get this out of the way - please do not suggest a corn snake or children's python! Much appreciated!

Sorry for the long wall of text and thanks in advance!

I definitely recommend a Ball for your specifications, particularly the environment size restraint. They really don't need much space, and actually thrive in smaller environments.

They can be finicky eaters, but there are a few options-- get one that's a bit older, with some bulk to it already, and a proven "good eater". Downside: You don't necessarily get to watch it grow as much.

I will say though that many breeders won't let their hatchlings go anywhere until they've had at least 3 unassisted meals. This verifies the animal's health coming out of the gate and its ability to eat on its own. Some ball pythons will fast no matter what you do, and some will refuse to ever skip a meal. It's part of their nature.

In the end though, it really is up to you as far as what you like and what you feel is possible! You can get a great variety of BP morphs, many of them with wonderful docile temperaments, can deal with size restraints, and only get to be about 5 feet at full length. But if they just don't tickle your fancy, there are definitely other options.

I would say, take a deeper look into the care sheets on the snakes you haven't done as much research on!
I think that, if by now you are sold on a snake, that might be it.
I personally only have a corn snake and a ball python, and I don't know much about the other ones you have listed. Based on what I've read though, the only one of those snakes you've mentioned that would be a really good "starter snake" would be a ball python...
I have heard of carpet pythons being alright as well, but not as much of a "beginner", if that makes sense?
Hopefully someone else can give you better info/opinions on that though!

I think that you should definitely do a TONNE of research before getting any snake, and be prepared to invest in money right off the bat - after the initial start up cost they are pretty inexpensive (well, if you only have ONE or a couple, anyways)! Price-wise, the cheapest one you could get would be a young normal male ball python - I was recently at a show and someone had them for $10. I know they can go for less than $50 most times. You can of course get some really fancy ones as well, but the more sought after snake, the higher the price (which would take up your whole budget). Definitely take a look on Kijiji (or if you are in the US, Craig's List) for deals on cages/vives. I would personally never get a snake from there though. Definitely check out some reputable breeders :)

I personally also think you should go for one that you love :) but like I said, really really do you research and fully know what you are getting into. I wouldn't suggest a snake not for beginners if it is your first, but I can understand it at the same time!

Best of luck with whatever you decide!

Hmm it seems like you're kind of in a tight spot. There's definitely going to be a trade off with your space constraints and the hefty snake you're looking for. The bigger snakes' housing requirements will also eat into your budget quite a bit more than a smaller snake. Which one of these are you willing to compromise on the most: snake size, cage size or budget?

Jungle carpet pythons definitely take less care than Common BCI:
- less humidity issues
- requires less room
- Smaller urinations, defecations
- Smaller food

Now unless you get a snake that is going to stay bitey forever, most can be calmed down. Most I come across are just a little nippy and shy as babies but as they get used to being handled they calm down quite nicely.

Thanks everyone - really appreciate the helpful advice! I did suspect that I would have to go with a Ball python, and that's okay. I really like the variety of colors that I can get, and I think I'd like their temperament. Ball pythons are the initial reason why I started looking into snakes; I had planned to get a BP but then other snakes started catching my eye.

Will definitely be doing a great deal of research, my fault usually lies in the fact that I over research and over think on everything. I ask a lot of questions, but I plan on doing a great deal of research on my own, too. Only recently started feeling the craze :) And yes, I will keep an eye on Craigslist and Kijiji as well, although I am hoping to find my snake at the Portland Expo in January.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Hmm it seems like you're kind of in a tight spot. There's definitely going to be a trade off with your space constraints and the hefty snake you're looking for. The bigger snakes' housing requirements will also eat into your budget quite a bit more than a smaller snake. Which one of these are you willing to compromise on the most: snake size, cage size or budget?

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I really am! That's a good question - although wouldn't cage size and budget go hand in hand? My $300 - $400 budget does include the set up, and I know the larger terrariums cost quite a bit. If cage size and budget weren't linked, then I certainly wouldn't mind getting a larger cage. Physical space isn't an issue. But because cage size and budget will likely be connected, I will have to say snake size. I would still like one within the 4' - 5' range, though, and the girth of a ball python or boa (corn snakes look delicate to me).

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Jungle carpet pythons definitely need less room than Common BCI.

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Forgive my ignorance, please :) Which of the snakes on my list would count as a BCI? How much room would a Jungle Carpet python require, if you know?

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Originally Posted by mikoh4792

Jungle carpet pythons definitely take less care than Common BCI:
- less humidity issues
- requires less room
- Smaller urinations, defecations
- Smaller food

Now unless you get a snake that is going to stay bitey forever, most can be calmed down. Most I come across are just a little nippy and shy as babies but as they get used to being handled they calm down quite nicely.

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That's great to know - it's probably pretty clear already that I heavily favor JCPs :P I am trying not to let that bias cloud my judgement, though, because everyone else has told me that they are not easy snakes to handle at all.

Here's my thoughts on babies vs. adults:

I definitely don't mind missing out on watching them develop. I'm not one for puppies or kittens or baby animals in general. However, I do want to ensure that the baby has been properly handled and socialized so that I would be able to handle the snake without (much) incident as an adult. Plus, babies should be much easier to calm down than a full grown adult. So that's one reason to go for a baby. And it does seem as if they're cheaper, too, which is a very compelling reason for me.

The mixed opinions on JCPs have been a little confusing for me in my attempts at research. Hopefully I can get these concerns cleared up on this board :)

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Originally Posted by loud

Forgive my ignorance, please :) Which of the snakes on my list would count as a BCI? How much room would a Jungle Carpet python require, if you know?

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Well you want to get a red tail, and bci are smaller than red tail boas. So if a carpet require less room than bci, then they certainly require less room than Red tails.

Most people I've seen house their adults in 4x2 caging, and individuals under 7 feet in length(Size varies depending on what you get) seem to have plenty of room to climb and move around. These are very slender snakes, if you don't over feed them.

I have a palmerston girl, palmerstons are a smaller locale of jungles usually maxing out around 4-5 feet. I have another male of mixed locales but his parents were around the 6ft mark.

Generally yes, cage and tank size would go hand in hand. But I wasn't sure if you had a limit on the cage size. Say, for example you found a 6x3x3 cage for 50 bucks on CL, but simply didn't have the room. I know I've run out of places for cages in my house :) I see that you don't like the 'delicateness' of corns, but I was going to recommend a hognose. They are a bit on the small and slender side, but they're gorgeous IMO and have awesome personalities. Since they're smaller, you can spend more of your budget on a sweet morph. I think females get around 3 ft. A hog was my BFs first snake and he got hooked. 3 and counting so far lol

mikoh4792 - thanks for explaining! So a question for you and anyone else with jungle carpet python experience... would you absolutely recommend against a beginner getting one? A beginner, mind you, who does not know much about reptile care (but is willing to learn!) and wants a snake that is easy to handle.

My thought is that if I go to an expo and find a more docile JCP or perhaps a very young one, it would be worth a try? But if they are predisposed to being very snappy, then I'm not sure how confident I am in my ability to change that.

MootWorm - that makes sense, thanks! And actually, hognose snakes were originally at the top of my list until I realized how small they were. They are stunning, and I'm very fond of their noses LOL I find them impossibly cute, but just not sure about their size. There's no real reason for my stubborn preference for the moderately large snakes, but I guess me being a big dog person has also transferred over to snakes as well? I get an idea of what I want in my head and it just sort of sticks.

If the tank size for a red tail boa or a jungle/Irian Jaya carpet python is an issue, I will probably go with a ball python.

Out of your list i have had ball pythonS and a carpet python (albit not a jungle mine is a coastal so will be much much larger than a jungle) here are my experiences:

Ball pythons:
Pros:
-gets chunky pretty fast but stay small as adults (good if you like thick snakes)
-General Docile
-not agile (so you can scoop them up from behind if you are lucky to end up with a mean one)
-A gazillion different morphs, gotta be one in your price range
-the perfect snake for ppl that are terrify of snakes (i'm talking about the 98% of docile BP, I usually let my scare of snakes friend start out by holding the BP they can be a little rough with it without getting punish or freaked out by fast movements)

Cons:
-too small (imo)
-can get quite boring (as in not fiesty enough :P kind of forget its a snake sometimes)
-Finicky eaters in general (even my really good eater will occasionally be picky)

Carpet pythons:
Pro:
-Can get to an impression size
-Grows slow (it grows lengthwise first before gainingg girth so it feel and looks smaller)
-Just the basic one are already stunning, the morph are breathtaking
-AWESOME feeding response, always hungry always ready for a meal, size of prey does not seem to affect their tenacity
-Seems more alert than ball pythons

Cons:
-Awesome feeding response (this might be con for some ppl because the feeding response it so great sometimes some will literally shoot out of their enclosure and any heat score on feeding day, could be scary for some people as a 2m+ adult)
-Can be mean as babies (I had mine since it was 100gram or so and at 500+gram it has settle down alot but still huff a bluff with a occasional bite and will not tolerate in proper handling like my bps would. Could bite, defecate or run really fast if scared)
-super agile, no you can't scoop them up from behind without them noticing like BPs
-Can grow big depending on the locality.
-in my experience messier than BP, they seem to pee Alooooottt


For me if I had to give up all my snakes and only keep one i would keep my carpet, they just have so much personality (albit feisty) and mine have never refuse a meal, it even eats in full shed. Would I recommend them for beginners? to be honest when I first got my Carpet having only dealt with ball python was a litte put off by the fiestiness. But i soon fell in love with its personality and actually appreciate its feisty, feels like having a real snake. And they do tame down with age (or they get more confidence after putting on some weight)

If the cage space is an issue, a ball definitely a better choice than a carpet. A female BP has a good chance of getting close to your size-range and the girls are certainly very stout all grown up.

But if you really love the look of jungles, the bigger cage is worth it. I adore my jungle. She's more or less full grown at 6.5 feet (not sure how much she weighs). Sometimes moody, but mine has never been snappy. Like threezero says, though, the feeding response is intense. Feeding her is a little intimidating. That said, though, she's probably my personal fave.

They're not on your list, and they're a pretty penny, but what about Angolans? My female especially is trying hard to oust the carpet as favorite snake. They're alert, inquisitive, can grow to a respect size (up to 7 ft for a female), arguably more resilient in the face of occasional keeper error than BPs, and eat like champions. A little squirrely at first, but with more peeing than biting.

threezero - thank you so much for your great post, exactly what I was looking for!! Yes, I have heard about ball pythons being boring and just not very mobile, haha. Not what I envisioned in a snake, but if I were being honest, maybe a slower and quieter snake would be better for a beginner like me.

Carpet pythons really are stunning. I know I keep saying that I will try to make the best decision for me, but my bias towards the carpet pythons is strong! It's difficult not to be drawn to their beauty. Incredibly, really. Will try my best to make a level headed decision and be realistic about what I can and cannot do.

I don't mind a mean baby that doesn't do too much damage, nor do I really even mind getting bitten if I make a handler error. That's all a part of the experience, I say! But I would like a snake that I can handle frequently, and if I have to worry every time I reach my hand into the tank, then I'd really rather not. Any issues with your carpet pythons snapping or lunging at you when it isn't feeding day?

And thanks for the reminder about the messiness LOL I forgot to consider that!! Since I really would like to have a snake that I can take out frequently, that might be something to consider...

Would it be preferable to get one as a baby or an adult? Babies have the advantage of being easier to handle and hopefully easier to mold as well. But if I can find an adult that already has a good disposition... although I guess it would be difficult to prove at an expo that the adult is genuinely good natured (and not just stressed by the environment or fatigued).


Alicia - huge thanks for your thoughts as well! If you'd be able to answer any of the questions about carpet pythons above, I'd also appreciate it :) How large is the enclosure you have for your jungle carpet python?

Sounds like both you and threezero love the more active, "fiestier" (as threezero says) snakes! Do you handle them frequently? This will be my only snake and I really would like to have one I could handle frequently, and let out into the room occasionally. Is this an unrealistic expectation, or a perfectly fine plan?

I did look up Angolans and ouch! That price range is a little scary. My budget for snake and set up is $300 - $400 total and I really don't see myself going outside of that price range. It's a shame, really, because I think Angolans would be a great fit!

I'll most likely be getting a ball python, although I am still hoping that I can manage a carpet python instead.

Going to go slightly off-topic here since they aren't on your list... You might want to look into sand boas (kenyan sand boas).. The females get about 3 feet but are heavy and not skinny looking. They are a moderate price (you can get a normal for around $50 and an anery for around $90). They are not active in the day but come out at night, have a great feeding response (mine eat f/t), and are very beginner friendly. The females will need at most a 20gl long tank as adults. Plus they have very cool patterns and color combinations. Mine also deal with handling very well.

I have not kept any of the species you listed as choices so I can't speak to their appropriateness in your situation. One note on cages though, unless you are dead set on an aquarium as a cage, you can house ball pythons in bins (of the rubbermaid type), which might be a cheaper setup option for you. Also, petco runs a $1 / gallon sale every so often and you can get a 20gl for $20, 40gl for $40 etc. This might be a good option if you want a glass tank and can't locate one on craigslist.

Good luck!

I want to say my carpet doesn't lunge on non feeding days but last night i had a girl over and she wanted to check out my snakes and of course my carpet scare the bejeesus out of her by striking the side of the tub, I just feed her 2 days ago :P.

As for starting out with babies or adults, And a big adult carpet could be intimidating consider your lack of experiences with snakes. And you miss out of the fun of watching your baby grow up. I recommend if you are really into carpets but still have concern with they temperament to pick out a babies that is tamer already. Than again I don't have too much experience with carpet I only have one, maybe other ppl that have kept more carpets in chime in?

Seriously if i were to have only one pet snake, I would definately take the carpet, they are just so much fun.

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Originally Posted by artgecko

Going to go slightly off-topic here since they aren't on your list... You might want to look into sand boas (kenyan sand boas).. The females get about 3 feet but are heavy and not skinny looking. They are a moderate price (you can get a normal for around $50 and an anery for around $90). They are not active in the day but come out at night, have a great feeding response (mine eat f/t), and are very beginner friendly. The females will need at most a 20gl long tank as adults. Plus they have very cool patterns and color combinations. Mine also deal with handling very well.

I have not kept any of the species you listed as choices so I can't speak to their appropriateness in your situation. One note on cages though, unless you are dead set on an aquarium as a cage, you can house ball pythons in bins (of the rubbermaid type), which might be a cheaper setup option for you. Also, petco runs a $1 / gallon sale every so often and you can get a 20gl for $20, 40gl for $40 etc. This might be a good option if you want a glass tank and can't locate one on craigslist.

Good luck!

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Yes, I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the Petco $1 per gallon sales. Sounds like a great deal, and I really haven't been able to find much on Craigslist. CL was the first place I turned to :D A few friends of mine have actually mentioned using large bins before which I had never thought of before. I'll have to look into that! We've certainly got plenty of those lying around. If that could work for a ball python (especially a young/growing one), I would definitely consider it.

Thanks for the recommendation as well! The sand boas are stunning, the colors and patterns are breathtaking. Unfortunately I am just not a fan of the head and prefer something more defined. They really are lovely, though!

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Originally Posted by threezero

I want to say my carpet doesn't lunge on non feeding days but last night i had a girl over and she wanted to check out my snakes and of course my carpet scare the bejeesus out of her by striking the side of the tub, I just feed her 2 days ago :P.

As for starting out with babies or adults, And a big adult carpet could be intimidating consider your lack of experiences with snakes. And you miss out of the fun of watching your baby grow up. I recommend if you are really into carpets but still have concern with they temperament to pick out a babies that is tamer already. Than again I don't have too much experience with carpet I only have one, maybe other ppl that have kept more carpets in chime in?

Seriously if i were to have only one pet snake, I would definately take the carpet, they are just so much fun.

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LOL!! They sure do sound like a lot of fun, and yours sounds like it has personality! I wish my friends were into snakes so that I could visit and get a better feel for them. That would really help me make my decision... but my friends are boring so this forum is my best source of information.

I will definitely go ahead and look for a baby first, thanks for your thoughts on the matter! Everything you've said makes sense, and I definitely will feel more at ease with even a more temperamental snake if I've had it since it was small. The occasional striking at the tank won't bother me that much, what I don't want is a snake that snaps every time I reach into the tank and refuse to be handled. A snake that allows itself to be handled frequently is a big criteria for me.

Really wish I didn't have to wait until January to meet these snakes!

To be honest, if you are handy (or know people that are that would be willing to help), you could build a tank that will hold the larger species you like (BCI's, the larger species of Carpets, etc.) for relatively cheap. We built the tank that we have our 6tf. BCI boa in, and I'm positive that we did not exceed $300, plus BCI's (normals, at least) are around $60. And if you start off with a baby, you'll have a few years easily to build an enclosure for his/her adult size, and in the meantime you can house them in Rubbermaid tubs with some heat tape for dirt cheap. If you're really set on having one of the larger "beginner" snakes then I would say do your research and go for it, because I don't see a point in getting an animal that's not really what you wanted. That's how people end up with the whole "I'm bored with my ____ now" mentality. Get what you want from the start, both for your sake and your pets'. :) Not one day has passed that I haven't been happy I adopted my boa, because I KNEW I wanted a large snake. :)

Just some of my knowledge on BCI's (since most people have been talking about Carpets and BPs):

PROS
-While larger and more heavy-bodied than most of the "beginner" snakes, a male will still stay in the 5-7ft. range, with a female between the 6-8ft. range. Even with their size, most adults are very docile and laid-back snakes which is why people like them as "beginner" snakes for getting into the larger species. As long as you put in the research to make sure you have proper husbandry, care and handling, I really don't see any reason why a BCI couldn't be someone's first snake.
-It would be rare if a BCI had to be fed on anything larger than jumbo rats. My girl eats large rats even at her size. Unlike BPs, boas do very well with smaller-sized meals, since they don't process fat as fast as BPs or others do.
-It's also VERY rare to have a BCI that refuses meals. They're nicknamed "garbage disposals" for a reason! :D
-I'm 5'4"/105lbs and I've never had a problem handling our girl. She's heavy and long, but I've never felt like I couldn't handle her myself. It's always a good idea though with any snake over 6ft to have someone at least home with you in case you DO run into trouble.
-Excellent feeding response (although some might call that a con). Tongs (especially longer ones when they get older) are a very, very good idea.
-BCI's are known for being very inquisitive and "in your face" snakes. They don't mind being out as much as BPs, and even seem to enjoy being taken out to be handled or put down for a cruising session. Just be sure to watch them to make sure they don't get anywhere they shouldn't.
-They are more forgiving of husbandry mistakes. While you should strive to get it right before putting the actual animal in, they are hardier than other boa species and if your temperature should flux a little or something odds are you'll be okay. Just be sure to check your husbandry regularly so that if it DOES happen you do catch it. If your temperatures drop/raise a degree or two they won't go off feed for 3 months lol. (Most people seem to find their BCIs like it cooler than BPs or other snakes do, with about 88F for a hotspot and about 77F ambient)

CONS
-You'll need AT LEAST a 5x2x2 tank for an adult male, for a female I would strongly recommend a 6x2x2. Again though, you can build one for relatively cheap, or if you get a baby you can house it in a tub and save for a pre-made vivarium, like an Animal Plastics or Boaphile. Glass tanks are NIGHTMARES for getting them to hold heat and humidity properly, and an adult BCI won't fit in any glass tank I've ever seen sold at a pet shop, haha.
-Unless you have a place to get bulk rats from, it can get mildly expensive to have to buy a $10 rat from a store every week (or two weeks as they get older). If there's nowhere near you that does, there ARE places where you can order online from and have them shipped to you.
-If you get bit when they're more grown up, it WILL hurt and it WILL bleed, lol. Just ask my boyfriend. :P If you end up with a feisty one, or if you don't feel completely comfortable just reaching in to pick up a larger snake, it might be a good investment to hook train them.


If a larger snake is really what you have your heart set on, BCIs are fantastic snakes for beginners who want to own the large species. I can't stress enough though, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH. Make SURE that you feel comfortable with the breed and its care, and confident that you can properly house it throughout its life before going to get one. Even if most of them are pretty docile ol' slugs, they can still be a handful for someone not prepared, or if they decide they're gonna be in a snit that day.


EDIT: When I say BCI, I mean the species Boa Constrictor Imperiator, also called the Colombian Red Tail Boa.

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Please remember that I am a complete novice to snakes and reptiles in general (and amphibians). There are a few things that I am expecting to compromise on, but that's a general idea of what I'm looking for.

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I know it's not on your list but just a regular old corn snake gets my vote. Normal corns are one of the most beautiful snakes around with their striking colors and patterns. They're virtually bullet proof as far as snakes go and handle real nice too. It's really the perfect species and will always be one of the coolest snakes in my eyes. I still get a bigger thrill out of finding a nice corn when herping over pretty much anything else.

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Originally Posted by xFenrir

EDIT: When I say BCI, I mean the species Boa Constrictor Imperiator, also called the Colombian Red Tail Boa.

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Colombians are part of bci. But bci are not called colombians. OP if you want a boa constrictor you should look at the insular or dwarf localities. Tarahumaras, Sonoran Desert, Caulker/Crawl/Ambergris cayes, Pearl Islands...etc so many more other subspecies of boa that don't exceed 6 feet in length and do well on a conservative feeding regimen.

xFenrir - thank you for such a well thought out and detailed post, I really appreciate it! A red tail boa sounds perfect if it weren't for the enclosure size issue, and aesthetically they are my favorite after JCPs. I really like what you said about their inquisitiveness, I'd love that in a snake. I definitely want a snake that doesn't mind being out.

Very interesting point about building my own enclosure, though. I am admittedly not handy at all but a couple of my friends are very into DIY type projects, so that is something to look into. And from the sounds of it, a properly furnished Rubbermaid tub seems to be a common recommendation for young snakes, and I know that would save me a lot of money initially.

Otherwise, snake size isn't an issue, but I'll be sure to remember what you said about having someone in the house in case I need help. I'm a 5' 7" girl and have wrestled down angry 80 lb dogs, but snakes are fast.

You mentioned some really good points about getting the snake that I want... I am pretty adaptable when it comes to my pets, but I also try to be reasonable. I'm all for loving each of your pets for what they are, but I'd also like to get something I really liked from the start. After all, that is where a lot of my interest begins. So I'll definitely do my research on and outside the forum and some heavy thinking as well. If I don't feel ready for a snake come January then that is fine, there is a smaller expo in August that I can always go to. I'll definitely be at the one in January though just for the hands on experience of meeting the snakes and talking to the experts.

A question about tubs - it does seem like they are a heavy favorite, how do you keep the tubs closed? Are there any links to tub set ups that aren't snake racks?

Again, I really appreciate the info on Red Tail Boas, thank you so much for writing that all out for me.

John1982 - thanks for the suggestions, and apologies for such a long original post, but I did state near the end that I'm not interested in corn snakes or children's pythons. I know corn snakes are the beginner snakes, but to be honest I find them a little dainty. They are stunning and very cute, but just not what I'm looking for at the moment. Although, who knows? Maybe I'll go to the expo and fall in love with one anyway!

mikoh4792 - thanks!! I'll look them up and do some research on them. Have never heard of them before, of course, so thanks!

Here's one that looks good. Try cruising the different forums here and looking just at the stickies at the top of each forum, I found this immensely helpful when I first started out. I think his idea (in the link) about mounting the heating pads on a surface that you sit the tubs on is genius.. Cleaning a glass tank really stinks due to this and this would be an advantage of the tubs.

Most people either use binder / bulldog clips or luggage belts to keep the tubs closed. You can also get taller tubs which might be useful for arboreal species, but I'm not sure how the heating situation is with those (how you would keep the ambient temp up).

Another thing that might be useful to you... I know your budget is tight, but I'd suggest investing in a good thermostat (a proportional one like a herpstat can run about $100). I was skating by with a rheostat (lamp dimmer), but I had to check temps like 5-6 times a day. I also tried to save money and bought a cheaper thermostat (a non-proportional one that was about $40), but the temp would swing greatly (like by 8-10 degrees) as it shut off and turned back on the heating element. If you can find a herpstat or vivarium electronics thermostat used cheap that would be an awesome find and could save you a lot of frustration later on.

One final thing to consider... If you're planning on getting a snake at an upcoming show, see if you can view a list of vendors that will be at the show on the show website. Go over to fauna classifieds (it's a different forum) and check out their BOI (board of inquiry). Do a search for the names of the vendors and see what others' feedback is on them. Good deals can be had at shows and I purchased both of my first snakes at one, but I also looked up some vendors beforehand and chose to avoid them based on their BOI feedback. There is also an inquiry forum here on BPnet that you can search and / or post to ask what people's experiences have been with a seller.
Good luck!
Artgecko

If you haven't looked into them I would highly recommend the Argentine Boa. They are big, beautiful, and docile. My roommate had one that I was awesome. I'm considering getting one of them, I really miss toko! Another great option would be a dumerils boa, also get larger and heavier and is very docile. Of course balls are also a great first snake. I started with 1 now I have 10 lol. Can't have enough ball pythons!

I kept my tubs closed with bungee cords, but I've seen racks built so that the tub takes up the whole slot so you cannot open the lid unless you slide the tub out. I'm on my phone right now so link searching would be difficult, but there are definitely threads for DIY tubs on here. Hopefully someone on a computer can link to some. :)

And yes, mikoh4752 is right. I was writing this at 2am last night, I guess my brain was already asleep lol. What I meant was that BCI=Boa constrictor imperiator, and that my recommendation was for the BCI Colombian RTB, since that's the subspecies I own and am familiar with.

For a first time I'd go with a BP, easiest snake I know of that will have girth when an adult, you don't need a big 75gal tank they tend to like to stay in small places where they feel secure a 40gal breeder should work for its entire life unless you over feed it. Mine has never bit and never skipped a F/T meal but from what I hear I may just be lucky. I would avoid a Boa since they seem to need a temp. maintained within a few degrees to stay healthy and humidity can be tough to keep up at the levels they need unless you live in a naturally humid place (unlike me). If you go with a BP I'd go with a morph if you can spend the money on it, you should be able to find something pretty to look at for $500 or less (check out bumble bees if you like yellow/black). You could find a nice looking Boa for a lot less but I would avoid for the reason I already gave. a CP as people have said are a bit more aggressive and unless you are already comfortable with handling snakes (which I assume you are not since this will be your first) I'd take a BP and if you find yourself comfortable and in love with the idea of owning a snake get a CP later and expand your collection. Be in mind you're in for a pet that can live up to 30+ years so you better like what you pick out, I hate reading about pets that need to be saved because their owners neglect them.

I apologize for not reading your whole post but stand by the suggestion. If someone was new to guns and looking for a first I'd suggest a .22 for learning safe handling protocol. If you want something with a thicker body I would suggest something pituophis(like a pine or bull) but your maximum cage dimensions wouldn't do for a large, active colubrid. Out of your list, anything but the ball python would be pushing your original spacing limits. Otherwise, of those I'd suggest the JCP solely on their being fairly cold hardy. I don't think they're like a chainsaw at all. They can be defensive as youngsters - many species are - but generally calm right down with a bit of size. Also, if you haven't, check out some of the myriad of kingsnake options.

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Originally Posted by loud

If you'd be able to answer any of the questions about carpet pythons above, I'd also appreciate it :) How large is the enclosure you have for your jungle carpet python?

Sounds like both you and threezero love the more active, "fiestier" (as threezero says) snakes! Do you handle them frequently? This will be my only snake and I really would like to have one I could handle frequently, and let out into the room occasionally. Is this an unrealistic expectation, or a perfectly fine plan?.

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Sorry for the delay, been under the weather.

Okay, first off, on enclosure size -- my girl is (at 6.5 feet) currently in a 36" long X 23" deep X 18" high cage with a Radiant Heat Panel mounted in the ceiling.

Care is pretty basic. She has an approximately 90 degree basking area. Ambient in the coolest part of the cage is in the upper 70's. Her humidity is around 55%, but I don't worry about it.

Temperament I'd call her gentle but moody. When she was a baby, I handled her a lot because I wanted a tame display snake. As an adult, I probably handle her a couple times a week, whenever she wants out or when I have to clean her cage. I've had two jungles; Sheila and a male I had in high school through my first year of college. (My first python.) Neither went through a nippy stage, but this hit or miss. Orion was always very deliberate. As a baby, Sheila was what I can only describe as a spastic bootlace.

Size/Feeding These kind of belong under the same heading. Carpets love to eat. I fed Sheila once a week as a juvenile. She now takes 1 extra large rat every 2-3 weeks. One of the biggest challenges in feeding carpets is keeping them from getting fat. Jungles in particular are not intended to be heavy-bodied snakes. But it's really easy to keep them from getting too plump with climbing props and handling.

As a baby, honestly, it's cute how enthusiastic they are. Grown up, it can be a little daunting. But that's what long tongs are for.

Price is hugely dependent on the baby's lineage. Babies out of excellent parents from bloodlines known for producing super sexy black and yellow adults cost more than Jungles out of unknown parents, mutts, unattractive parents, etc. Most baby Jungles are somewhere between $75 - $200. Most I see around here (the PNW) are like, $100-$150. Yearlings may cost a bit more.

As far as total price, something to keep in mind (true for ball pythons, too) -- you're not looking at one cage for the entire lifetime of the snake. A hatchling/juvie carpet can live happily in a 10-20 gal long for up to a year and a half. That's time to save toward the more expensive adult cage . . . Or talk a handy friend into building one. Tanks can be found for $5 at garage sales and can be made snake-tight pretty darned easily. That saves money for the heating element (I like Ultratherm UTHs for this kind of thing) and the even more important, can't live without it, thermostat.

So, as far as Jungles . . .

Pros: Beautiful! Great size for someone who wants a larger snake that doesn't handle like a cumbersome, stout snake. They mostly cruise when out and like to go up. They're very inquisitive. Feed like clockwork. Love to perch, especially once they get some size and confidence, so a great display. Their head shape. Just cool. Seems less prone to stressing than ball pythons.

Cons: Expect to have to tame it. This is easy and I recommend the use of thin gloves. The intense feeding response. At the same time, Jungles can be a hassle when switching from mice to rats. More frequent cage cleaning than a BP. The poop of an adult carpet is basically like that of a medium-sized dog. Sometimes less, sometimes A LOT more.


Other? For both price and handling, I'd also recommend a baby if you decide to go with a Jungle. Mine is wonderful, and I love her, but something I do not do is open her cage after dark. Not unless she is in desperate need of cleaning. She's in pure feeding mode after the sun goes down. That's her time, I'm okay with it. She is also trained to expect feeding when I click open her cage in a certain way, and handling in another. I do this consistently. She's also learned the routine before I feed her (specifically) and gets very excited on her feeding nights. It makes feeding her interesting, but I think it also highlights one of the things I really like about her. As far as snakes go, she's pretty clever. I can't compare her to a mammal, but you can tell someone's home.

Really, if it's between a JCP and a BP, both are great pets. BPs do take up less space . . . But the carpet is a lot fun.

Sorry for the delayed response everyone! Was out of town, but am back now. Been trying to do some research and reading in the meanwhile :)

A question about tubs! This might sound like a really absurd question, but I have a hard time telling the difference between the snake tubs and, well, regular old storage tubs. What is the difference? If you use a heating pad, is there a particular reason that a large plastic storage tub would not work for a snake? Intuitively, I am thinking "of course you can't put a snake in a storage tub", but logically, I don't understand why. Would love a explanation, if anyone gets the chance!

So my sister showed me a post the other day on Craigslist advertising a JCP and its set up for sale. The set up sounds good, although more than I'd be willing to spend when I can get most of that new for a similar price. Plus, I'm not a fan of the snake posted and would like something with more vibrant colors. What did make me curious, however, was the size of the snake. 2 years old and not even 2 feet long? Is that a JCP's normal rate of growth?

Artgecko - huge thanks for the link, and the reminder to look at the stickies!! I'm on a few forums so I'm too used to scrolling past the stickies without a second thought. Will definitely take a look now, and the DIY tub post is very helpful. Will be keeping that page bookmarked for sure!

I will also keep my eye for good deals on reliable thermostats. I'll browse through Craigslist over the next few months and see if I can find anything... and even if I can't, it sounds like a worthy investment. I'll be certain to add that on my "must buy" list.

Okay, and another huge thank you for the recommendation to look up vendors. I did find the page (http://www.nwreptileexpos.com/vendors-portland/) and will be sure to look each individual vendor up. That's really great advice, especially because I had been wondering how you differentiate the reputable and untrustworthy sellers. Thanks!!

DTK - thanks! I'll look into them, although from the sounds of it boas require the most room out of all the types I listed? Really the boas seem like the most ideal snake for me, if only it weren't for the amount of space they need.

xFenrir - okay, got it! Thanks for letting me know, and Artgecko did indeed link me to a great DIY tub thread :) So far all the abbreviations and classifications are all Greek to me, but I'm sure I'll learn along the way!

aaront126 - thanks, ball pythons are definitely at the top of my list right now. They are everything that I am looking for, I'm just too easily distracted by the looks of jungle carpet pythons LOL Thanks for the thoughts on boas as well, that is good to know. I would definitely want a hardier snake that won't suffer if I make a few mistakes here and there. Of course, I'll try my best not to, but sometimes it just happens.

I'm definitely aware of the lifespan of snakes, but no worries! Neglect won't be a problem. I'm a very avid animal lover and enthusiast, and make a full commitment to every pet I bring into my home. And if, for some unforeseen reason, it becomes too much for me, I know when and how to responsibly rehome an animal.

John1982 - please don't apologize, I really appreciate hearing your thoughts and opinions! I didn't expect anyone to read through that essay of an OP anyway LOL So I should probably be apologizing ;)

I will keep your suggestion in mind, but to be honest the metaphor doesn't really work in my situation. I do not see myself ever purchasing another snake, and this is meant to be my only one. I'm currently still a student and most of my money and space is devoted to my dog, cat, and photography hobby. I know a snake isn't the most high maintenance pet ever, and that it's not a big jump going from one to two, but it is one more life to be responsible for. While I'd have zero qualms about reselling one gun to purchase a prettier one, you can't really apply it to snakes :)

I do understand where you are going, though, and that is a good point to think about. I'm definitely trying not to get a snake that is too much for me. Thanks for your advice, I'll be sure to take it to heart.

Alicia - wow! Thank you once again for such a detailed and helpful response. A great breakdown of the facts and your experience!

I really don't mind a nippy baby (I still have scars up and down my legs and arms from my dog, he was a hellion and a landshark). I will happily handle regularly to familiarize the snake with being held and being out and about. I just hope that it won't be a permanent part of its innate temperament.

I did not know that they aren't supposed to be heavy bodied! A lot of the pictures of jungle carpets I've seen show an awfully thick snake around the midsection, and I've always found it a little off looking. I'll be sure to keep this in mind.

Ah, and thanks for the input on price! I'm also in the PNW so that certainly helps! The expo I'm going to in January is the one in Portland :) Hope I can meet some JCPs there - it's definitely just the vivid/contrasty ones that I'm interested in. I did hear someone say that their color improves with each shed (which makes sense), but how would I know, looking at the babies, that they'll look (as you say) super sexy? LOL! That is an excellent way to describe them. There really is something incredible about the color and pattern of the yellow and black.

I'm really grateful for everyone's advice and input in this thread! I did not even realize that I could start off with a small tank for the first year. That would actually take a huge load off the expenses! How fast do they normally grow? I saw the ad on Craigslist with a 2 year old JCP that was about 1.5 - 1.8 feet (I think), which surprised me, but do carpet pythons just grow at a slower rate?

Could you elaborate just a little about switching from feeding mice to rats? Do they get a little bit picky when you switch food on them? And bah, I didn't even remember to account for poop. Ew :P Oh well, there are worse things to deal with in the world.

Neat idea to condition them to differentiate between feeding time and nonfeeding time. I will probably follow your example and try that as well! Really, they sound like fantastic snakes to own. I'm very naturally drawn to animals with more personality (and sometimes just a touch of crazy), but want to make a responsible decision because I'm very much a beginner. I was at a pet store the other day (roommate was picking up a couple of pet rats), and saw a corn snake and a ball python in adjacent tanks. The corn snake was climbing all over the props and the edges of a ceiling, while the ball python didn't move the entire hour we were there. I didn't expect anything else, of course, but that did make me realize that I liked a more active snake. I'm still very fond of BPs, though!

I just use a regular old sterilite tub from Walmart :) Shouldn't run you more than 15 bucks if you get a really large one. I'll let all the other experts on your favored species chime in on the rest!

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

I just use a regular old sterilite tub from Walmart :) Shouldn't run you more than 15 bucks if you get a really large one. I'll let all the other experts on your favored species chime in on the rest!

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Yeah I just use normal sterilite tubs I get at walmart also

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Well then! I'll probably go with a tub in that case, and spend the money I save on a good thermostat instead. Just looking around, I can find good sized tubs for a fairly low price, such as these two here and here. Considering that tubs are so much cheaper than terrariums/tanks, what are the advantages of the latter? It seems that the majority of non-breeders/non-collectors use tanks? Or maybe that's just me and my limited experience.

Thanks for the responses!! Definitely helps :)

Aesthetics, mostly. Tanks tend to look a bit better than tubs. Although tubs I get are pretty clear, and if you want, you can get the taller ones and decorate it as a naturalistic enclosure. You can also use a heat emitter to supplement if you can't get your ambients up, although I'm sure with a big enough tub you could modify it to handle a light without melting. Tanks are also pretty popular because that's what's pushed by petstores :) I'd much rather have a tub though. They're light, easy to clean, and work quite well for my purposes. But to each their own.

That makes sense! I was talking it over with my roommate and she couldn't believe that I was considering a tub. She definitely wants the snake to be on display, but she's not the one paying for it and doing the cleaning :P They do seem much easier to clean and move around, and I don't believe 90 F is enough to melt through plastic, or even soften it? I will look into that more carefully before deciding, of course.

Thanks!

ETA: On another note (for the JCP people), I've been looking up vendor names online and saw that Inland Reptile has a great reputation on the boards. He does say to feel free to contact him on his page, but would it be rude to do so if I'm still not sure what snake I'm getting? I'd really like to talk to him about his carpet pythons, and he will be at the expo in January.

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Originally Posted by loud

ETA: On another note (for the JCP people), I've been looking up vendor names online and saw that Inland Reptile has a great reputation on the boards. He does say to feel free to contact him on his page, but would it be rude to do so if I'm still not sure what snake I'm getting? I'd really like to talk to him about his carpet pythons, and he will be at the expo in January.

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Nick Mutton is a great person to deal with and has excellent animals with some of the best bloodlines you can find in the states. He has a wealth of knowledge that he doesn't seem to mind sharing - I say give him a call. As for your tub hunt, we're getting close to that time of year when stores start stocking the huge 4 foot plus storage bins for artificial christmas trees. One of these would be plenty large enough for an adult cheynei and a heck of a lot cheaper than most alternatives.

This is the storage bin I was talking about in the above post:
http://www.neatlysmart.com/catalog/i...=searchresults

Oh, wow!! That's a fantastic idea, I forgot all about those. And the price... woohoo!! I will definitely buy one during the end of the holiday season, even if it may be a while before I use it. Plus we already have plenty of large storage bins lying around for the snake as a baby. Although, would there be any particular reason not to start a baby off in a giant tub? If I can get the temperature and humidity regulated from the get go, I may just start attaching the heating pad and start "furnishing" it.

Lots of thanks for the link and comments regarding Inland Reptile/Nick Mutton! I looked around the forums and have been hearing some consistently wonderful things about the guy. I will go ahead and send him a message to see what he thinks :)

The only 2 things I know of, that would be negatives to watch out for with tubs, are that it can be hard to get your ambient temps up and stable, since plastic looses heat faster than glass, and that you'd want to go with a low wattage UTH so that if it even malfunctions, it won't get hot enough to melt the plastic. I've heard many recommend ultratherm heat mats (I know reptile basics sells them, not sure who else). These are also pliable so would fit a tub easier. When looking at your tubs, try to find one with a smooth / groove-free inside to make cleaning easier.

You might want to check on the DIY and /or caging forum and see if anyone's posted about insulating a tub to help hold heat.

Good luck!
Artgecko

Really appreciate the good advice Artgecko, I will be sure to keep all that in mind! I looked up the ultratherm heat mats, and I think that was what I had in mind originally. Plus, they're very affordable and just sound like a great option all around. I'll browse around some more on the caging forums for ideas! Might go ahead and get a head start on the enclosure so that I can figure out how to maintain the heat and humidity.

So did you make up your choice on what snake to get?

I just notice that my carpet seems to be more aggressive/defensive and strike alot more when I have another person presented in the room. When I'm handling her along she is ALOT calmer, at the most she will throw a few bluff hit. But When i have frds over that wanted to see her, she seem to always put on a shot and will fly out of the tub to strike at them.

Make me like her even more, she "knows" me:D

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Originally Posted by threezero

So did you make up your choice on what snake to get?

I just notice that my carpet seems to be more aggressive/defensive and strike alot more when I have another person presented in the room. When I'm handling her along she is ALOT calmer, at the most she will throw a few bluff hit. But When i have frds over that wanted to see her, she seem to always put on a shot and will fly out of the tub to strike at them.

Make me like her even more, she "knows" me:D

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I don't think this will come as a surprise to anyone, but there is probably an 90% chance that I will be getting a jungle carpet python :D I have spoken to Nick Mutton at Inland Reptiles, who gave me some great information and food for thought on JCPs vs. BPs. He said he will send me pictures and family trees of the snakes for me to choose from, and then bring it to the expo in January for me. I'm very excited to see them!

I plan on being a very dedicated beginner and believe that I can make it work. Of course, I will also be taking everyone's advice here to heart and really appreciate the input that I've gotten on this board. Nick Mutton has both carpet pythons and ball pythons, so if for some reason I change my mind, I will get a ball from him. But for now I think I will do okay with a JCP, and good thing too because I've had a hard time looking past them (as everyone's probably noticed!). And yes, it probably would feel pretty cool to have a snake that recognizes you! It'd make me feel like a bit of a badass ;) (no one panic, I know that's not why we get snakes).

Cool! I do really hope you go with the Jungle. They're fantastic. Nick is also awesome -- he's who I go Sheila from and was fantastic about answering questions on her when I wrote him like a year later.

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Originally Posted by Alicia

Cool! I do really hope you go with the Jungle. They're fantastic. Nick is also awesome -- he's who I go Sheila from and was fantastic about answering questions on her when I wrote him like a year later.

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Thanks Alicia!! I hope everything goes as planned and that I get one, too. Looking forward to my own little spastic bootlace baby :D