Purchasing lab strains?

If you had a preference for using an established laboratory line of rodent, can you actually buy them? Is there a lab supplier who will sell to the public, or would you have to show that you're affiliated with a legitimate scientific project? Thanks!

Sorry, I have no idea on this, but what are you planning with them? Experiment or feeders? Just curious :)

Breeding colony for feeders. I just keep seeing references to diseases and genetic problems, so I was thinking if I went with a known lab strain I could get something consistently "clean" in a genetic sense.

When I was in school, I had to do a hypothetical research project, and include sources for all of my materials. This was the site I got my model animals from: http://www.criver.com/find-a-model?animal_type=Rats. I'm not sure how much they'd run though... I think your best bet might be to get a few high quality animals from a registered show/pet rat breeder. If I remember correctly, a lot of the lab strains are purposefully predisposed to various cancers and conditions.

I *think* you can purchase from Jackson Laboratories, Simonson Labs, and Harlan Laboratories. However, Jackson only does mice.

I don't think it's worth buying a specific lab strain. They can be really expensive depending on the blood line and strain. We work with mainly immunodeficient C57 black mice in our lab for stem cell research. Some mice can cost $80+ per mouse.

Many of lab specific strains are designed for different purposes so finding a 'normal' rat may be a challenge. Like there are some mice that are bred to become obese for obesity research. There are some animals that have no immune system like the animals I work with. etc etc.

I know some labs do let some of their extra animals become feeders. I know a reptile shop that got in a batch of clean lab rats and they went down hill fast due to their immunodeficiency. They were exposed to the "dirty" breeding feeder rat colony and just were dying off within 3 weeks of exposure.

Like Mootworm mentioned, your best bet may be a pedigree breeder for rats.
But even some feeder breeders are pretty meticulous about their rats' lineage and genetics as well.
I know I am. I've personally tried to breed for health and wellness my first few years of breeding rats rather than mass produced feeders since I don't have a very large snake collection. My rats are my project animals when not snake breeding. ;)
So don't be afraid to scope out some nice animals from feeder stock.

I'd offer you some of my rats, but I've only been breeding for under a year, so I don't have full histories on some of my rats. Two of my main females are from a breeder that pedigreepedigrees her rats, but they were bred with males of unknown descent. So I'm still trying to suss out the genetics, waiting to see if any issues pop up, etc.

Hmm, maybe I'm just going to have to come back on here and convince one of you two to send me some delta dash when the time comes. I just want happy, healthy animals (at least right up to the point where they meet what is hopefully a very swift painless end in the coils of my beasties), and because I'm moving to a rural area I'm going to have to breed all of my own feeders next year (petco is the only pet store in a one hour drive radius, and I am NOT buying feeders there).

ETA: Ok I admit it, my OCD tendencies also really like the idea of them all matching :oops:

Are you still in Phoenix?

PM Coleslaw. She lives right outside of Phoenix. She has really nice rats.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Are you still in Phoenix?

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Until December, then I'm packing everything up and hauling it all to VA.

Oh snap. That's a bit of a drive lol.

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Oh snap. That's a bit of a drive lol.

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It is indeed, and I'm already going to have two lunatic scottish terriers and an asf colony riding with me (and possibly the DH, not sure yet). Snakes are going fedex, I just can't handle moving a dozen bps and a boa on top of everything else.

Some labs will sell to non-research "facilities". I don't know what the process or procedure is, but it can be costly (depending on what you get and quantity, I'm sure). Many years ago I worked at a reptile store (I was their "Rodent Queen" and in charge of all the rodent care), and they informed me their mice came lab stock, but I don't know which one.

No matter where you get your animals from (lab or private breeder), do all the research you can, and ask lots of questions. If the breeder isn't keeping any kind of record on their animals, then you don't know what you'll be getting. If they do keep records, the more records they keep the better and more information you'll have on the lines. Ask about inbreeding, linebreeding, and outcrossing. Do your research on those breeding tool also - inbreeding/linebreeding are not inherently harmful, it depends on what is already in the line and how those tools are used in the breeding program. (In fact, constant outcrossing can sometimes do more harm than good by spreading a potentially deleterious gene throughout the entire colony, and you won't know where it came from or how to get rid of it. Inbreeding can tell you where it came from, which will then help you figure out how to get rid of it, as well as concentrate it into one branch of the family lineage, which you can then pinch off and eliminate the undesired trait/s.)

Very good advice sorraia, and that's exactly what prompted my thinking about this (actually I think it was one of your other posts on line breeding). I figure if they're being used for research then they'll have to be genetically very consistent so there shouldn't be any surprises lurking, but it turns out there are dozens of lines and the vast majority are selectively bred with faults (as expected). It looks like Taconic will do it, but of the two lines that are suitable (sort of general purpose rats) I'd be looking at $20-35 per rat plus shipping costs. :(

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

Very good advice sorraia, and that's exactly what prompted my thinking about this (actually I think it was one of your other posts on line breeding). I figure if they're being used for research then they'll have to be genetically very consistent so there shouldn't be any surprises lurking, but it turns out there are dozens of lines and the vast majority are selectively bred with faults (as expected). It looks like Taconic will do it, but of the two lines that are suitable (sort of general purpose rats) I'd be looking at $20-35 per rat plus shipping costs. :(

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If you go with lab rats, general purpose would probably be the best bet. $20-35 actually isn't too bad, if I may say so. Rats from show/pet breeders would run about that amount too, though some will give discounts if multiples are purchased. Shipping is what will kill you though. I don't know what kind of deals the labs have, but among pet breeders, you are looking at $100 just for the plane ticket. With additional supplies (carrier, health certificates if needed, mileage reimbursement, etc) it can climb to $200 or more. I personally never shipped rats, too expensive.

It's too bad you're moving across the country. There's enough breeders out this way that could help you out when you were ready. :(

Maybe try joining a rat forum and find a local breeder? Just don't tell them what they'll be used for lol