HELP! I fear I'm doing something horribly wrong!

My almost 3-year-old male, Cali, who has always been a sweetheart, has suddenly turned extremely aggressive and antisocial. He used to be a dream, I could handle him as much as I wanted, and would almost every day. For about a month now, his personality has completely changed for the worst. I don't know what to do and I fear I'm doing something wrong. The fact that I am afraid to handle him is causing other problems such as my inability to properly clean his cage. I will try to explain in the best detail the conditions and events that may have led to this. I also have a few ideas of what the problem could be, but this is my first and only snake I've ever owned, so I can't be sure.

I bought Cali about a year ago off of a friend. He has always been very healthy and docile. He has never bitten anyone or taken a strike at anything except for a mouse. When I bought Cali, I also bought a large amount of frozen mice that my friend had as well. They are about medium-sized and he had been feeding them to him for a while. He did well on one a week for a while, but soon I saw he was beginning to get bigger and the mice appeared to be too small. However, I still had SO MANY of these mice that I had to try to get rid of as many as I could before I moved him up to rats, etc. After awhile I started to feed him two mice a week, the same day about twenty minutes apart.

About three months ago, he seemed as if he needed more than two mice; he was always still very active after eating. I was hesitant to feed him three, because I felt it may be too many separate prey items at once. So, I started to alternate, feeding him three mice some weeks, and two mice others. He seemed as if he was doing fine until about a month ago. After feeding him two mice, he was still extremely active, looking like he needed more. I had fed him three mice the previous week, however, so I denied him at first. I waited two days to handle him, as I normally do. He was out of his hide, and I walked over to the cage. This is when I first noticed he was acting strange. He was immediately on me, stalking me almost. He had his head in the air, and he just kept following me, looking very aggressive. When I opened the tank, he immediately lunged down into strike position.

I have read that you should not feed a snake outside its weekly schedule, but I was afraid that he was really hungry and was acting this way because he was stuck in "eat mode." I panicked and fed him two more mice that day; I had been reading that mice have less nutrients than rats. I usually would never do something like this, but I was afraid that he was starving and I had to do something. I waited two more days to handle him again, and this time when I went to put my hand under him he started almost "shrugging me off." He did not want me to hold him AT ALL, and this is when I first began to get extremely scared.

I had my boyfriend go to the pet store that day and get me a few prepackaged small rats. I then waited until Cali's normal feeding day to try to feed him one (this was about four days after the last two mice). Once again, I would normally never do this, but out of fear of his possible malnutrition, I really wanted to attempt to feed him the rat. He took it readily, and then I waited two more days - still extremely aggressive. This was a week ago, and I have tried to pick him up twice since. He immediately recoils and runs into his hide when I open the tank. He is still being aggressive, but also acting like he is now terrified of me. And I am very afraid that the longer I go without handling him, the more antisocial he will become and I will not be able to handle him anymore without getting attacked.

I have no idea what the problem could be, but I have a few ideas:

1. My original thought: he was eating too little and is now stuck in "feed mode" because he is always hungry.
2. Maybe, on the other hand, I was feeding him too much (too many prey items, and especially the mistakes I made in the last two weeks).
3. Climate: I live in Pennsylvania, and lately our weather has been very strange. It is autumn, but it has been 80 degrees every day.
4. Mating season: Cali was too small last year, with his old owner, to be sexually mature. I don't know how ball pythons act during mating season, but I have read that it is during autumn/late autumn. (ALSO: a friend of mine, who also has a male python of the same age and size, is experiencing the EXACT SAME problems with her snake as I am.)



PLEASE, if you have any ideas on what the problem could be, please tell me! I considered my snake to be my best friend and this is truly hurting me. Thank you.

To help ease your mind on the food, don't worry too much about the schedule. It's nice when it works, but real life often gets in the way. If he's not hungry, he's not going to eat, which is why it's almost impossible to "power feed" a ball the way some people do with boas. I'm happy he was willing to take a rat for you, some of them are very difficult if not impossible to switch once they've been on mice for extended time periods. To be honest with you, he probably is quite hungry. 2 or 3 mice (or one small rat) is a rather small meal for a 3 year old. How much does he weigh, and could you give us some details on his set up? What are the temperatures in his enclosure? If it's too cool, he may be having trouble digesting his food, which would of course make him rather uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by Badgemash

To help ease your mind on the food, don't worry too much about the schedule. It's nice when it works, but real life often gets in the way. If he's not hungry, he's not going to eat, which is why it's almost impossible to "power feed" a ball the way some people do with boas. I'm happy he was willing to take a rat for you, some of them are very difficult if not impossible to switch once they've been on mice for extended time periods. To be honest with you, he probably is quite hungry. 2 or 3 mice (or one small rat) is a rather small meal for a 3 year old. How much does he weigh, and could you give us some details on his set up? What are the temperatures in his enclosure? If it's too cool, he may be having trouble digesting his food, which would of course make him rather uncomfortable.

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He has always been in a 30 GAL long tank, for as long as I've had him. There is one hide on the hot side (rock cave), and one hide on the cool side (log). I have been meaning to actually buy a thermometer. My friend who sold him to me, who has a good amount of snake experience, insisted that it wasn't necessary with a ball as long as I was attentive of his movement around the cage. He told me that if he regularly changed from hot side to cool side, that his temps were normal. Recently, he's actually spent more time on the COOL side, so maybe heat is an issue? I should also probably add that he has been defecating a little more often than usual, BUT it is normal-looking.
I think it's definitely time to get a thermometer though; I think I may run to the pet store and get one today. It is about 75F in my room, so I'd assume his cool side is about 75-78, while the hot is about 85ish. All I know is he's always been fine until recently.

I am not sure how much he weighs, the most I can do for you is give you a picture. It was taken about two months ago, he's the same size.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...ce&oe=52554106



Also, here is a picture of the new rats I got for him.

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...eb&oe=5254B1B7

You should definitely get a thermometer. Hard to identify potential temperature issues without one, and it's good to know what the temps actually are that your snake is experiencing.

Might want to get a scale, too. Tracking his weight over time can come in handy at times as well.

Is that rat about the same width as the widest part of your snake?

85 is a bit cool, but if you have no way of measuring with certainty it's hard to judge. I recommend you skip the pet store thermometers, many people on here have found them to be wildly inaccurate, and I'd hate for you to waste your money. I personally use an infrared thermometer as it's much more accurate, something like this http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-Non...y#.UlLoxBac8Rk would work. If not, the accurite weather thermometers (I'm told you can pick them up cheaply at walmart) are generally correct within around 4 degrees.

What heat source are you using to create the hot side?

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

What heat source are you using to create the hot side?

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Exo-Terra under tank heating pad

My first, second, and third guess is that he's just very hungry. This is the time of year when BP's really start pounding the food b/c most will stop eating during breeding season. Also, be glad he switched from mice to rats quickly, many "mousers" stay picky and simply won't touch a rat.

You said he got pre-packaged small rats from the store, so I'll assume F/T. If they were the "Arctic Mice" brand then their small rats are pretty danged small, I think 50 grams each is typical. So, I could see an adult male easily downing two of them and wanting more. Look on FB or CL for a local supplier who can sell you F/T mediums, and offer one of those each week.

For handling, I would avoid it for 2 days after feeding, give him time to digest. Otherwise, diving into his hide and hissing is defensive not aggressive behavior, it just means he's happy and comfortable in his "house" and doesn't want to be messed with.

ETA: Do you have a thermostat regulating that UTH?

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Originally Posted by bcr229

My first, second, and third guess is that he's just very hungry. This is the time of year when BP's really start pounding the food b/c most will stop eating during breeding season. Also, be glad he switched from mice to rats quickly, many "mousers" stay picky and simply won't touch a rat.

You said he got pre-packaged small rats from the store, so I'll assume F/T. If they were the "Arctic Mice" brand then their small rats are pretty danged small, I think 50 grams each is typical. So, I could see an adult male easily downing two of them and wanting more. Look on FB or CL for a local supplier who can sell you F/T mediums, and offer one of those each week.

For handling, I would avoid it for 2 days after feeding, give him time to digest. Otherwise, diving into his hide and hissing is defensive not aggressive behavior, it just means he's happy and comfortable in his "house" and doesn't want to be messed with.

ETA: Do you have a thermostat regulating that UTH?

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The thing is that he has never exhibited this sort of behavior. He's never been afraid of me picking him up, and he seems terrified now. Is it possible for him to become unsocialized due to the lack of handling, even if he's been handled often his whole life before now?

Also, there is no thermostat for the UTH. He has used the same one his whole life, and it still feels like it's working/same temp. as far as I can tell. I'm thinking I need to completely overhaul his tank supplies.

I ask because without a thermometer or thermostat who knows what the actually temps are... if his hot side is too hot that may be why he's spending so much time on the cool side, and if the cool side is 75 then he may not be digesting correctly...

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Originally Posted by Crazymonkee

I ask because without a thermometer or thermostat who knows what the actually temps are... if his hot side is too hot that may be why he's spending so much time on the cool side, and if the cool side is 75 then he may not be digesting correctly...

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True. I'm going to get on that ASAP.
After I get the temps right and let him adjust to his new food/feeding schedule, do you think he would be okay? Or would he still be sketchy due to the lack of handling?

Once you get it sorted out I believe he'll be fine.

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He could be going into shed...my snakes get super pissy when in shed. Granted, they're retics...but still.

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Originally Posted by iPanda

He could be going into shed...my snakes get super pissy when in shed. Granted, they're retics...but still.

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He's shed many times while I've had him and never acted this way. As a matter of fact, I've been able to handle him while in the "blue eye" stage (to clean his cage during). He actually surprised me with how docile he was during sheds.

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Originally Posted by kckilgannon

Exo-Terra under tank heating pad

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That's it.. No heat bulb.?

I can hold my girl deep in shed as well. It could be a cause though for some.

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Originally Posted by NYHC4LIFE8899

That's it.. No heat bulb.?

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I have read from multiple sources that ball pythons do better with "belly heat."

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Originally Posted by kckilgannon

I have read from multiple sources that ball pythons do better with "belly heat."

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You are fine with the belly heat
If the ambient temp is less than 80ish you MAY need a heat bulb to help.
But check your temps first

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Originally Posted by NYHC4LIFE8899

That's it.. No heat bulb.?

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Heat bulbs are not always necessary

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by kckilgannon

True. I'm going to get on that ASAP.
After I get the temps right and let him adjust to his new food/feeding schedule, do you think he would be okay? Or would he still be sketchy due to the lack of handling?

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I think he'll be fine once you work out what's bothering him. Their personallities are pretty consistent once they're past hatchling age, so this change in attitude is likely a sign that something in his enviroment is off. Once you figure out what that is, he should be back to his old self, the hard part is figuring it out.

Small rats are not big enough of a prey item my 1 year old 359 gram eats a small rat every week and he is smaller then your snake

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I feed smalls to all of my adults. They're nice and plump. Small is too large for a 350g imo. I consider smalls to be around 80-100g rats.

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It sound to me like the first thing you need to do.... Is stop listening to your supposedly knowledgeable friend. Because he's not that knowledgeable AT ALL.

First and foremost, and 30 gallon tank is WAY big for a ball python, especially a male. They are all but impossible to heat properly and keep humidity correct. It can be done yes, but it takes a great deal of time and effort to do it. It is also super open, and can easily cause a ball to become nervous, flighty, go off feed and become generally miserable. Even if they were fine before.

You MUST have a way to accurately measure and control temps. What you are doing now is just begging for problems ranging from regurgitation from cold to burns from excessive heat.

He wants and needs security. If you are set on the tank, crowd it up with fake plants or big rocks or something to provide cover for him.

Yes, he has been underfed for a long time, and this extreme aggression/aversion to being handled is probably a direct result of that. Now, the key here is not to overfeed him. Because some ball pythons who have been underfed for extended periods can and will stuff themselves to the point of illness. Slow and steady and consistent is the key. Try bumping his feedings up to every 5 days, and keep his prey a bit on the small side for now. If you feed too big too often, it can make things worse instead of better.

Be patient with him. Once a ball reaches this phase, it can take weeks or even months to get them out of it. But the great thing about ball pythons is, they almost never become aggressive permanently. Once you figure out what is causing the aggression, and once you fix the problem, they will almost always go right back to being the sweetheart's they were before. Don't worry too much about handling right now. It's only going to stress you both out. Focus on what he needs, and let the handling slide. Once he's back on track, he'll be just as sweet as can be.

I have had personal experience with several rescue ball pythons that were badly neglected and underfed. ALL of them were spastic, aggressive, strike at anything, run and hide when I got them. After a few months of consistent feedings and a set routine, every single one turned into a dollbaby. But it takes time. Anywhere from 2 months to 8 months, depending on the degree of neglect they had faced and the individual snake.

So while you may be doing a few things less than perfect, mostly thanks to poor information, you can fix all these minor things and get your friend back with some patience and time.

Gale

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Originally Posted by satomi325

I feed smalls to all of my adults. They're nice and plump. Small is too large for a 350g imo. I consider smalls to be around 80-100g rats.


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The small rats I get are no where near as big as that I would say that the ones I buy as small rats are about 60-70g


Sorry op dont want to jack your thread

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Originally Posted by angllady2

It sound to me like the first thing you need to do.... Is stop listening to your supposedly knowledgeable friend. Because he's not that knowledgeable AT ALL.

First and foremost, and 30 gallon tank is WAY big for a ball python, especially a male. They are all but impossible to heat properly and keep humidity correct. It can be done yes, but it takes a great deal of time and effort to do it. It is also super open, and can easily cause a ball to become nervous, flighty, go off feed and become generally miserable. Even if they were fine before.

You MUST have a way to accurately measure and control temps. What you are doing now is just begging for problems ranging from regurgitation from cold to burns from excessive heat.

He wants and needs security. If you are set on the tank, crowd it up with fake plants or big rocks or something to provide cover for him.

Yes, he has been underfed for a long time, and this extreme aggression/aversion to being handled is probably a direct result of that. Now, the key here is not to overfeed him. Because some ball pythons who have been underfed for extended periods can and will stuff themselves to the point of illness. Slow and steady and consistent is the key. Try bumping his feedings up to every 5 days, and keep his prey a bit on the small side for now. If you feed too big too often, it can make things worse instead of better.

Be patient with him. Once a ball reaches this phase, it can take weeks or even months to get them out of it. But the great thing about ball pythons is, they almost never become aggressive permanently. Once you figure out what is causing the aggression, and once you fix the problem, they will almost always go right back to being the sweetheart's they were before. Don't worry too much about handling right now. It's only going to stress you both out. Focus on what he needs, and let the handling slide. Once he's back on track, he'll be just as sweet as can be.

I have had personal experience with several rescue ball pythons that were badly neglected and underfed. ALL of them were spastic, aggressive, strike at anything, run and hide when I got them. After a few months of consistent feedings and a set routine, every single one turned into a dollbaby. But it takes time. Anywhere from 2 months to 8 months, depending on the degree of neglect they had faced and the individual snake.

So while you may be doing a few things less than perfect, mostly thanks to poor information, you can fix all these minor things and get your friend back with some patience and time.

Gale

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Yeah, I definitely agree that I was wrong for listening to him hahaha... but thank you for this, this is a good response. I was worried that my best friend was gonna want to eat me for the rest of his life. I'm working on fixing everything right now. I am living at college and don't have a car so sometimes it takes a while to get things (there are no good stores in town). But I should be getting some medium rats soon and will probably keep on the once-a-week schedule, and then eventually get larges and level him off to every 7-10 days.
I've also been trying to get him a clear plastic tank (maybe a large tupperware with holes drilled in), but it has proven difficult to find one with the right l/w/h. Any suggestions on where to find something like this?

Some male snakes when they go through sexal matuity they get agressive then i goes alway after a while.