Weight/feeding

2 month male spider, 140g feeding every wednesday and friday small f/t mice, is that a good weight gor his age? Am i feeding to much? Rat pups online anywhere? Let me know thanks, recent pics are on my instagram @marc_diaz96 if interested thanks

usually for small ones, the rule of thumb is 10-15% of body weight every 5 to 7 days.

i think you should bump up the food size a bit, and go to a 5 day scedule. the wednesday and friday feeding scedule seems quite unusual, people usually advise against feeding more often than every 5 days.

so somewhere around 14-21 grams per feeding. if the food you have stored is too small, you can feed one small item, and a second one 10 minutes later and so on, to get there. and then do that every 5 days or every 7 days.

for food item weight reference:
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_mice mice
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_rats rats

so you can go for weaned or adult mice, or go for rat fuzzies / rat pups.

I always think mice are just to small for a snake, to me it isn't enough. I just fed off an adult mouse to a 6 week old ball.

I just weighed my Coral Glow the other day and he tipped the scale at 345g. His birth date was 7/14. I feed my hatchlings every 3 days.:D

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

usually for small ones, the rule of thumb is 10-15% of body weight every 5 to 7 days.

i think you should bump up the food size a bit, and go to a 5 day scedule. the wednesday and friday feeding scedule seems quite unusual, people usually advise against feeding more often than every 5 days.

so somewhere around 14-21 grams per feeding. if the food you have stored is too small, you can feed one small item, and a second one 10 minutes later and so on, to get there. and then do that every 5 days or every 7 days.

for food item weight reference:
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_mice mice
http://www.rodentpro.com/catalog.asp...el=frozen_rats rats

so you can go for weaned or adult mice, or go for rat fuzzies / rat pups.

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@OP Don't pay attention to this above. People have tried to explain to him about this rule and he just ignores it.

Like Kodieh said, mice are too small, even an adult mouse. My black pastel doesn't weigh 140 grams and he can eat a f/t rat pup, so you should be okay with doing rat pups versus mice. Personally, another reason to get away from mice if possible is because once they get breeding size there just isn't really a mouse big enough to sustain them properly. Generally all my snakes have taken a mouse hopper as a baby, just because of the movement and triggering feeding response plus it being a good size for them, but after that they go to rat pinkies, fuzzies for a few feedings. This is only because they can be shy to bigger feeders and once they've got a few of those meals or I think their feeding response is up then I'll go up in size, as long as they have the size to handle the next prey item.

When I got my spider on 8-7-2013 he was exactly 100 grams. I haven't weighed him because I only do it when they shed but he's going into shed as of yesterday or the day before so I'll tell you a weight once he digests his meals and sheds.

One last thing I will say is he may not switch to rats right away, or may never but I would definitely try.

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Originally Posted by grcforce327

I just weighed my Coral Glow the other day and he tipped the scale at 345g. His birth date was 7/14. I feed my hatchlings every 3 days.:D

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:colbert:

I would not feed more often than 3 days after the previous feeding. You don't want your snake to get backed up. They definitely get visibly uncomfortable when they're too full.

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Originally Posted by Neal

@OP Don't pay attention to this above. People have tried to explain to him about this rule and he just ignores it.

Like Kodieh said, mice are too small, even an adult mouse. My black pastel doesn't weigh 140 grams and he can eat a f/t rat pup, so you should be okay with doing rat pups versus mice. Personally, another reason to get away from mice if possible is because once they get breeding size there just isn't really a mouse big enough to sustain them properly. Generally all my snakes have taken a mouse hopper as a baby, just because of the movement and triggering feeding response plus it being a good size for them, but after that they go to rat pinkies, fuzzies for a few feedings. This is only because they can be shy to bigger feeders and once they've got a few of those meals or I think their feeding response is up then I'll go up in size, as long as they have the size to handle the next prey item.

When I got my spider on 8-7-2013 he was exactly 100 grams. I haven't weighed him because I only do it when they shed but he's going into shed as of yesterday or the day before so I'll tell you a weight once he digests his meals and sheds.

One last thing I will say is he may not switch to rats right away, or may never but I would definitely try.

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how would you change the percentages or the other numbers in the rule in order to improve it?

you may also adapt it into two rules, for BPs falling into two different weight categories, if you feel the rule is wrong only for a certain weight range of BPs.

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

how would you change the percentages or the other numbers in the rule in order to improve it?

you may also adapt it into two rules, for BPs falling into two different weight categories, if you feel the rule is wrong only for a certain weight range of BPs.

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Dunno what's between you and Neal... but both of you are right, so I don't know why all the pow-wow between you two.

10-15% of the snake's weight is an okay guide for juvenile snakes. I've used them myself. I've fed up to 20% to my juvies too if that's the only size I got on hand and they can chomp down on that without an issue. Ball pythons usually are born within around the 70gram range so they get started on rat fuzzies (about 12 grams) right off the bat. There's really no need to go on mice unless it's the only thing you can get your hands on or you just want to have your snakes not hooked on just one prey item in case the store runs out of something. I breed my own ASFs, so I don't worry about this and newborn ball pythons can chomp down 2 week old ASF (about 10 grams) no problem.

If you notice, rats are usually within an average proportion of girth to weight. It's rare to find a rat that is bigger around than it is long. So, you can also go by visually comparing the rat to the girth of your snake. I go by the widest part of the juvie snake to be about the same as the rat, the rat can be a tad bit bigger and it's okay. This usually ends up with the rat within the range of 10-20% of a juvie snake's weight.

As I feed ASFs, I don't worry that the rats get to be too big for the adult bps. The adult ASFs, including the retired breeders, are about the size of a medium rat which is within the size prey adult ball pythons eat. As my snakes become adults I get to grow out my ASFs for at least 6 months before I feed them off. At this age, the ASFs are somewhere between 80 grams - 100grams. I had a 2 year old ASF and she only got to 140grams. So as you can see, they're a lot smaller than the 10% thing I used when the snakes were juvies as I have adults that are over 2200 grams. A lot of people feed their snakes every 2 weeks at this size. I continue to feed every 7 days. Of course, my snakes tend to go on months-long fasts usually around the winter time so my ASFs get to enjoy a longer life.

I bred my female once and she never quit eating even while laying on her eggs (went with maternal incubation).

Okay, to the OP: My opinion for a 140g snake... I'd go with a rat fuzzy or a rat pup and feed every 5 days. Wednesday and Friday is too close together. The snake may not be done digesting by Friday. I used a wall calendar and marked each feeding day with an X so I know when to feed next.

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Originally Posted by Rickys_Reptiles

:colbert:

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Where's a middle finger smiley when you need one!http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...aughing001.gif

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

how would you change the percentages or the other numbers in the rule in order to improve it?

you may also adapt it into two rules, for BPs falling into two different weight categories, if you feel the rule is wrong only for a certain weight range of BPs.

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I've seen you recommend that for snakes that are a year old and malnourished. That rule was established for hatchlings. His snake is past the hatchling size.

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Originally Posted by Neal

I've seen you recommend that for snakes that are a year old and malnourished. That rule was established for hatchlings. His snake is past the hatchling size.

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not very helpful.

so is the rule giving a 140 gram BP too much food, or not enough? is 14-21 grams every 5 to 7 days not appropriate for a 140 gram BP?

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Originally Posted by Pythonfriend

not very helpful.

so is the rule giving a 140 gram BP too much food, or not enough? is 14-21 grams every 5 to 7 days not appropriate for a 140 gram BP?

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Does it work? Yea but that snake can eat rat pups at that stage so technically he'd be going under what it should be eating. A rat pup starts at around 20-21 grams? So that snake eating under that would be rat fuzzies and those are far unde what he can eat. I've had a smaller bp then 140 grams eat a rat pup. If a snake is under 100 grams then feel free to recommend the 10-15% rule. Otherwise if you don't understand it then stop. If a bp is a year old and severely underfed that 10-15% rule will not even come close to applying because the length would mess up the weight rule so the diameter of food recommended would be too big. That's what I mean about understanding something before you recommend it, or knowing when to recommend it. This is the reason a lot of veteran's give people simple advice versus what one would recommend to another

The problem is i cant find rat pups that arnt sold in bulk online i dont need 50 rat pups they start to go bad after a while, and i dont have a huge freezer

Can you find someone local that can split an order? Or try a local BP/reptile group on Facebook. Worst case, you can post a Craigslist ad.


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Originally Posted by Neal

That rule was established for hatchlings.

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It can also apply to juvies. Basically, it may apply until you get to medium rats. Then the bp can stay on medium rats all the way through adulthood. Sick or abnormal snakes of course have different requirements.

Different suppliers vary in weight ranges but rat fuzzies can go from 10g to 20g, rat pups from 20g to 30g. Mediums start out at 80g and can go up to 180g depending on supplier.

Now that I've been doing this for years, I can pretty much eyeball my rat stock and pick out which ones to feed. But when I was just starting out, I used a scale.

Of course, these are just guidelines especially for those just starting out. Each bp owner adjusts these according to their own particular situation.

To the OP: they also sell frozen rats in PetSmart.

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Originally Posted by MarcsReptileShed

The problem is i cant find rat pups that arnt sold in bulk online i dont need 50 rat pups they start to go bad after a while, and i dont have a huge freezer

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I've been dealing with f/t for a long time and this is what I've found out. Anything without hair is good for about 6 months, as long as they're sealed good with minimal air(certain people sell their stuff vacuum sealed). I've had stuff with hair last up to a year. So a bag of rat pups will last you awhile, just make sure that you seal them really good and get as much air as you can out.

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Originally Posted by anatess

It can also apply to juvies. Basically, it may apply until you get to medium rats. Then the bp can stay on medium rats all the way through adulthood. Sick or abnormal snakes of course have different requirements.

Different suppliers vary in weight ranges but rat fuzzies can go from 10g to 20g, rat pups from 20g to 30g. Mediums start out at 80g and can go up to 180g depending on supplier.

Now that I've been doing this for years, I can pretty much eyeball my rat stock and pick out which ones to feed. But when I was just starting out, I used a scale.

Of course, these are just guidelines especially for those just starting out. Each bp owner adjusts these according to their own particular situation.

To the OP: they also sell frozen rats in PetSmart.

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It can, but it most likely doesn't unless that snake wasn't fed properly. 15% of 140 grams is like 21 grams. That snake should be on rat pups at that weight. With that in mind that 10-15% rule barely applies and it's more like a 15% rule in this case. Also pet smart f/t stuff is like $8.

They dont have rat pups tho. Im gonna call around and see if there is anywhere. But 9/10 hes imprinted on mice already

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Originally Posted by MarcsReptileShed

They dont have rat pups tho. Im gonna call around and see if there is anywhere. But 9/10 hes imprinted on mice already

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At 2 months I doubt it... the longer you wait the harder the switch will be.

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Originally Posted by MarcsReptileShed

They dont have rat pups tho. Im gonna call around and see if there is anywhere. But 9/10 hes imprinted on mice already

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Whoever is giving you this information I would highly disregard it. From a logical stand point it honestly makes no sense. Yes while they get older they are harder to switch, but being he's not that old it shouldn't be hard at all.

im gonna have to call around but i could also make a craigslist ad and see what happens

for storage, try to stay below -20 degrees celsius or -4 degrees fahrenheit. if you are just a bit below freezing, worst case is that bacteria in the guts of the mice or rats get active, and produce enough heat to keep the belly of the mice/rats above freezing temperature for a while. Then they basically internally rot in the freezer. Freezers of the crate design, a box with a lid on top, tend to be most energy efficient for this.

Are there any reptile shows coming to your area? I think that would be your best bet to get a good number of decently priced feeders. When I used to bulk order frozen, I would rebag everything in to Ziploc sandwich bags. It's a little time consuming, but it prevents freezer burn pretty well.

Would 1 6g fuzzie work in the same feeding as the small at 16g?

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Originally Posted by MootWorm

Are there any reptile shows coming to your area? I think that would be your best bet to get a good number of decently priced feeders.

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The next 1 is November 9th but imm pretty sure that its the last of the year for my area.